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NIL
Apr 25, 2023 19:10:17 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by mervinswerved on Apr 25, 2023 19:10:17 GMT -5
The amount of money moving through Opendorse is a drop in the NIL bucket.
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NIL
Apr 25, 2023 19:25:35 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by mervinswerved on Apr 25, 2023 19:25:35 GMT -5
I find it very hard to believe women's volleyball is anywhere close to the numbers I've heard around WBB.
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NIL
Apr 25, 2023 19:53:54 GMT -5
Post by volleyguy on Apr 25, 2023 19:53:54 GMT -5
It would be foolish to believe any figures that are being floated which are self-reported, or based entirely on “self-valuation.”
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NIL
Apr 25, 2023 20:02:44 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by mervinswerved on Apr 25, 2023 20:02:44 GMT -5
It would be foolish to believe any figures that are being floated which are self-reported, or based entirely on “self-valuation.” What about the numbers from the people who recruit the players, manage the players' business, or the people who sign the checks?
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NIL
Apr 25, 2023 20:26:33 GMT -5
Post by volleyguy on Apr 25, 2023 20:26:33 GMT -5
It would be foolish to believe any figures that are being floated which are self-reported, or based entirely on “self-valuation.” What about the numbers from the people who recruit the players, manage the players' business, or the people who sign the checks? Some of those might know or reveal actual figures (especially the check writers), but whether they report them accurately (either under or over) seems like another matter. “People who recruit the players” certainly may not want to broadcast the entirety of their efforts, while business managers might want to maximize the value if they’re receiving a percentage, and student-athletes might want to minimize the value for tax reasons. There’s little incentive for participants to report or provide transparency in both regulated and unregulated states because murkiness generally works to everyone’s advantage in one way or another. I continue to believe that there won’t be any significant action or progress until the IRS moves in on the “non-profit” collectives or highly compensated athletes.
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NIL
Apr 25, 2023 21:11:50 GMT -5
Post by mervinswerved on Apr 25, 2023 21:11:50 GMT -5
There’s little incentive for participants to report or provide transparency in both regulated and unregulated states because murkiness generally works to everyone’s advantage in one way or another. All I can say is I'm in a position where those people would be highly unlikely to lie to me about stuff like that. 1. Not all collectives are nonprofits. 2. The difference between checks from collectives and duffel bags of cash behind a 7-11 is the former gets reported to the IRS and the latter doesn't.
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NIL
Apr 25, 2023 21:49:44 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by cardinalvolleyball on Apr 25, 2023 21:49:44 GMT -5
There’s little incentive for participants to report or provide transparency in both regulated and unregulated states because murkiness generally works to everyone’s advantage in one way or another. All I can say is I'm in a position where those people would be highly unlikely to lie to me about stuff like that. 1. Not all collectives are nonprofits. 2. The difference between checks from collectives and duffel bags of cash behind a 7-11 is the former gets reported to the IRS and the latter doesn't. Ahh, the Al Capone school of business model
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NIL
Apr 25, 2023 22:10:52 GMT -5
Post by volleyguy on Apr 25, 2023 22:10:52 GMT -5
There’s little incentive for participants to report or provide transparency in both regulated and unregulated states because murkiness generally works to everyone’s advantage in one way or another. All I can say is I'm in a position where those people would be highly unlikely to lie to me about stuff like that. 1. Not all collectives are nonprofits. 2. The difference between checks from collectives and duffel bags of cash behind a 7-11 is the former gets reported to the IRS and the latter doesn't. 1. Regardless of your position, I highly doubt it's a position that affords the possibility of seeing the entire national landscape. Regardless of whether or not people are trying to do this legitimately or not, everyone is still operating in an environment of uncertainty as to how this will eventually play out. They may or may not be inclined to lie to you, but there are still plenty or reasons to not be completely transparent in some areas or circumstances. 2. A collective isn't necessary to execute NIL deals, but the driving force for organizing as non-profits is to provide tax deductions for donors (particularly donors of significant amounts). But it's eminently easier to organize a collective as a non-profit than to operate as one. The alternative is to have to treat those payments as wages, which has its own obvious disincentives. For that matter, there's no reason to believe that the existence of a collective precludes the making of cash payments behind the 7-11.
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NIL
Apr 26, 2023 8:43:25 GMT -5
Post by mervinswerved on Apr 26, 2023 8:43:25 GMT -5
All I can say is I'm in a position where those people would be highly unlikely to lie to me about stuff like that. 1. Not all collectives are nonprofits. 2. The difference between checks from collectives and duffel bags of cash behind a 7-11 is the former gets reported to the IRS and the latter doesn't. 1. Regardless of your position, I highly doubt it's a position that affords the possibility of seeing the entire national landscape. I never said it did, but my small slice of it is likely representative of most P5 schools. Are you referring to the payments to players? Those are already taxable income. Nope, but it looks to me like most of that duffel bag money is going legit now.
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NIL
Apr 26, 2023 8:57:22 GMT -5
Post by mervinswerved on Apr 26, 2023 8:57:22 GMT -5
All I'm saying is know what some of these WBB players are getting right now at top programs and I think it's really unlikely there's more money in women's volleyball.
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NIL
Apr 26, 2023 9:01:49 GMT -5
Post by knapplc on Apr 26, 2023 9:01:49 GMT -5
I find it very hard to believe women's volleyball is anywhere close to the numbers I've heard around WBB. For sure if the Husker women's VB team is working with Opendorse, they're going to skew the numbers quite a bit. Volleyball being much more popular than WBB in this particular state.
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Post by mervinswerved on Apr 26, 2023 9:12:42 GMT -5
I find it very hard to believe women's volleyball is anywhere close to the numbers I've heard around WBB. For sure if the Husker women's VB team is working with Opendorse, they're going to skew the numbers quite a bit. Volleyball being much more popular than WBB in this particular state. I don't think it's unreasonable to estimate the collective money at 10x or 20x what's moving through Opendorse or similar marketplaces. The way I read the financial landscape is NIL gets broken down into a few different buckets: 1. Traditional endorsement and/or modeling deals. The Livvy Dunne model, if you will. Paige Bueckers with Gatorade, Eggleston/Champion, Boston and Brink in that march madness Buick ad. Bryce Young and Dr Pepper. 2. marketplaces like Opendorse 3. Collectives. Bucket #1 is lucrative, but pretty rare. There aren't a ton of big endorsement deals because most NCAA athletes don't carry any real endorsement value for a company. Bucket #2 is pretty common, I think? But those deals are pretty small ball, from what I've seen. Bucket #3 is a black box, for the most part, but the money is huge. If a P5 school isn't moving millions annually through bucket #3, they're not competitive. The big schools are doing tens of millions.
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NIL
Apr 26, 2023 9:25:38 GMT -5
Post by knapplc on Apr 26, 2023 9:25:38 GMT -5
For sure if the Husker women's VB team is working with Opendorse, they're going to skew the numbers quite a bit. Volleyball being much more popular than WBB in this particular state. I don't think it's unreasonable to estimate the collective money at 10x or 20x what's moving through Opendorse or similar marketplaces. The way I read the financial landscape is NIL gets broken down into a few different buckets: 1. Traditional endorsement and/or modeling deals. The Livvy Dunne model, if you will. Paige Bueckers with Gatorade, Eggleston/Champion, Boston and Brink in that march madness Buick ad. Bryce Young and Dr Pepper. 2. marketplaces like Opendorse 3. Collectives. Bucket #1 is lucrative, but pretty rare. There aren't a ton of big endorsement deals because most NCAA athletes don't carry any real endorsement value for a company. Bucket #2 is pretty common, I think? But those deals are pretty small ball, from what I've seen. Bucket #3 is a black box, for the most part, but the money is huge. If a P5 school isn't moving millions annually through bucket #3, they're not competitive. The big schools are doing tens of millions. This seems pretty spot-on. The Opendorse tweets are like looking through a keyhole into a dimly lit room.
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NIL
Apr 26, 2023 9:49:07 GMT -5
Post by stevehorn on Apr 26, 2023 9:49:07 GMT -5
For sure if the Husker women's VB team is working with Opendorse, they're going to skew the numbers quite a bit. Volleyball being much more popular than WBB in this particular state. I don't think it's unreasonable to estimate the collective money at 10x or 20x what's moving through Opendorse or similar marketplaces. The way I read the financial landscape is NIL gets broken down into a few different buckets: 1. Traditional endorsement and/or modeling deals. The Livvy Dunne model, if you will. Paige Bueckers with Gatorade, Eggleston/Champion, Boston and Brink in that march madness Buick ad. Bryce Young and Dr Pepper. 2. marketplaces like Opendorse 3. Collectives. Bucket #1 is lucrative, but pretty rare. There aren't a ton of big endorsement deals because most NCAA athletes don't carry any real endorsement value for a company. Bucket #2 is pretty common, I think? But those deals are pretty small ball, from what I've seen. Bucket #3 is a black box, for the most part, but the money is huge. If a P5 school isn't moving millions annually through bucket #3, they're not competitive. The big schools are doing tens of millions. At least at the P5 level, I believe this is quite accurate. The vast majority of the NIL money is moving through the collectives. Also companies like Opendorse may likely be relatively non-players soon, if not already, as typical reports indicate that the athletes are receiving relatively little from these deals.
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NIL
Apr 26, 2023 11:14:10 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by n00b on Apr 26, 2023 11:14:10 GMT -5
I don't think it's unreasonable to estimate the collective money at 10x or 20x what's moving through Opendorse or similar marketplaces. The way I read the financial landscape is NIL gets broken down into a few different buckets: 1. Traditional endorsement and/or modeling deals. The Livvy Dunne model, if you will. Paige Bueckers with Gatorade, Eggleston/Champion, Boston and Brink in that march madness Buick ad. Bryce Young and Dr Pepper. 2. marketplaces like Opendorse 3. Collectives. Bucket #1 is lucrative, but pretty rare. There aren't a ton of big endorsement deals because most NCAA athletes don't carry any real endorsement value for a company. Bucket #2 is pretty common, I think? But those deals are pretty small ball, from what I've seen. Bucket #3 is a black box, for the most part, but the money is huge. If a P5 school isn't moving millions annually through bucket #3, they're not competitive. The big schools are doing tens of millions. At least at the P5 level, I believe this is quite accurate. The vast majority of the NIL money is moving through the collectives. Also companies like Opendorse may likely be relatively non-players soon, if not already, as typical reports indicate that the athletes are receiving relatively little from these deals. Collectives definitely are a big deal for basketball and football. But do these groups really care that much about volleyball programs to funnel money towards volleyball players (outside of a couple of obvious programs)?
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