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Post by vballPeakish23 on Mar 7, 2023 18:35:01 GMT -5
First of all, let me say the grammar leaves a lot to be desired. Secondly, it sounds like this R1 was inexperienced, which is not at all uncommon in lower levels of USAV club tournaments. As for having an adult as the R2...I have been an official, and I prefer the kids!! It is the discretion of the tourney, if an adult is mandated to be the R2; the kids R2 99% of their tourneys, and then they throw adults in there for the most important matches? Having an adult pay attention to the net instead of watching the ball, or knowing rotations, or even the proper hand signals is rare. If you have been an R1 for even 1 club season, you know you are basically doing the job by yourself, and hopefully you can see everything. I was ecstatic when I had good line judges and an R2 who actually transitioned and knew the proper hand signals. All that to say, it really really sucks if the officiating caused you to lose; BUT sometimes that happens. I know that this tournament was very hard-up for officials, they were offering payment for flights to and from, hotel stays for the whole week between weekends, per diem, etc. If you are in the Liberty Division, you probably aren't getting a certified R2, and even if you are, they may not be that experienced anyway. There is always Regionals to earn that bid, or perhaps you are going to another qualifier. Good luck! There was plenty of refs there. Our game right after for 3rd place had all head officials which didn’t make sense since it was not for a bid.
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Post by boh on Mar 8, 2023 12:02:28 GMT -5
I doubt there are many on here that coach that do not do this, but coaches need to make sure their kids do a good job when they have a ref assignment. I will get on kids if they do not pay attention. If it came down to it, I would take away playing time. It has never come to that and my kids do a great job caring about it.
I thought all qualifiers had to have a coach as R2 if it was not an actual official?
What on earth was the head coach of the ref team doing during all of this? At past tournaments when I am not R2 and a coach has started talking to my team while they ref I have went over to them and told them under no circumstance are you talking to my kids unless you are asking what server is next or how many subs/timeouts you have left. Otherwise you will say nothing to them. Then I will sit there and any time they try anything I will shut it down immediately. That has always worked. If it didn't then I would take over the R2 job for the kids.
I coach older age groups, so it is a lot different. However, the parents and coaches are still just as childish as 14s
Sucks that this happened to your team, but if it ever happens again hopefully you will know to protest in the moment. In the meantime this is a good lesson for your team on being resilient and learning that sometimes you have to dig even deeper than you should to get what you want.
Best of luck the rest of the season
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Post by FUBAR on Mar 8, 2023 12:42:18 GMT -5
Everyone deserves good officiating. Boston had a qualifier Philadelphia had a qualifier Orlando had a qualifier Reno had a qualifier that apparently was snowed out but that probably still took a good number of officials off the board. CEVA Bid tournament Pocatello Bid Tournament CHRVA Boys Regionals Great Lakes Regionals in Chicagoland Crossroads in Denver Bluegrass in Ky Great Lakes Festival in Detroit March Madness in Alabama Mizuno Showcase in Wisconsin Dells MAPL Power League in Raleigh Molten Wisconsin (Boys) Volleyball Festival NorCal Spring Challenge Prep Dig Champions Cup in Wisconsin 501 Invitational in Arkansas The Houston Superegional And does anyone know if the Carribbean Championship uses mainland officials? Plus about a dozen smaller tournaments, and college men, and probably some adult tournaments where officials are even taking a weekend to play. ALL of the matches at ALL of the events deserve good officiating, but there aren't enough officials to do it all. This, in my opinion, is one place USAV really blew it over the last 3 decades. They pushed player participation hard, but didn't create the infrastructure (officials, quality coaching, quality administration) to keep up with the growth.
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Post by staticb on Mar 8, 2023 12:57:19 GMT -5
Sucks that this happened to your team, but if it ever happens again hopefully you will know to protest in the moment. It sounds like you did what you could, but don't be afraid to be that team and protest in the moment while the match is going on. If you have someone that can bring over the tourney director while you are coaching after etc. That said, you can protest to the USAV but it's doubtful that they'll do anything now. Join a tournament organizing committee sometime, finding refs is a huge issue, everyone is fighting for refs' time and the it doesn't pay well enough, it's a side gig for most people. Here in the Midwest we do have several approved/certified non-adult referees. Don't assume a ref is incompetent just because they are young. The big thing is that they have to learn how to stand up to adults when making calls, but once they do....
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Post by vbnerd on Mar 8, 2023 13:02:49 GMT -5
This, in my opinion, is one place USAV really blew it over the last 3 decades. They pushed player participation hard, but didn't create the infrastructure (officials, quality coaching, quality administration) to keep up with the growth. For all the things we fault USAV with, this is one where I'm willing to give them a pass. I'm sure there was an assumption that with X times as many players there would be X times as many former players willing to officiate. And I think a fair amount of people do get into officiating or at least look into it, but every new official that tries is cursed at or chastised on a message board until they quit, so we are left with a population of officials where a decent percentage are too old to hear or use message boards.
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Post by n00b on Mar 8, 2023 15:05:44 GMT -5
I doubt there are many on here that coach that do not do this, but coaches need to make sure their kids do a good job when they have a ref assignment. I will get on kids if they do not pay attention. If it came down to it, I would take away playing time. It has never come to that and my kids do a great job caring about it. I thought all qualifiers had to have a coach as R2 if it was not an actual official? What on earth was the head coach of the ref team doing during all of this? At past tournaments when I am not R2 and a coach has started talking to my team while they ref I have went over to them and told them under no circumstance are you talking to my kids unless you are asking what server is next or how many subs/timeouts you have left. Otherwise you will say nothing to them. Then I will sit there and any time they try anything I will shut it down immediately. That has always worked. If it didn't then I would take over the R2 job for the kids. I coach older age groups, so it is a lot different. However, the parents and coaches are still just as childish as 14s Sucks that this happened to your team, but if it ever happens again hopefully you will know to protest in the moment. In the meantime this is a good lesson for your team on being resilient and learning that sometimes you have to dig even deeper than you should to get what you want. Best of luck the rest of the season For what it’s worth, I don’t think any of the decisions were protestable.
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Post by staticb on Mar 8, 2023 15:32:32 GMT -5
For what it’s worth, I don’t think any of the decisions were protestable. On the surface the weren't, but the coach can make sure that the R1's were applying the rule correctly. ("Why was that a back row attack? Do you know of a rule? Oh, was she really over the top plane of the net? Look at her, she's 5'1, etc. You might have gotten the call overturned by being rational or find out the R1 was misapplying the rule, which would allow you to file a protest)
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Post by FUBAR on Mar 8, 2023 18:04:34 GMT -5
For all the things we fault USAV with, this is one where I'm willing to give them a pass. I'm sure there was an assumption that with X times as many players there would be X times as many former players willing to officiate. And I think a fair amount of people do get into officiating or at least look into it, but every new official that tries is cursed at or chastised on a message board until they quit, so we are left with a population of officials where a decent percentage are too old to hear or use message boards. Lol! True. But, it is a National Governing Body's job to grow in a sustainable way. Training administrators to keep fans/parents under control so you don't run off officials is part of the deal. Building a financial model that isn't 99% dependent on parents of 12-18 year old girls footing your bill, so you can't kick them out of tournaments when they act the fool is part of the job of a NGB. The USVBA/USAV has failed in that (in my opinion).
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Post by nakedcrayon on Mar 8, 2023 20:15:51 GMT -5
I assume OP will start reffing next season at tourneys where they are not participating
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Post by coachdavid on Mar 8, 2023 21:32:55 GMT -5
I assume OP will start reffing next season at tourneys where they are not participating Or even just 4-6 matches in the opposite wave
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Post by babybacksets on Mar 9, 2023 2:04:18 GMT -5
If your teams setter is 5 foot tall and cant cross the plane of the net I don’t think this matters all that much anyway. You were probably playing for Gravel lol Literal garbage individual
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Post by BigTenVball on May 14, 2023 19:11:44 GMT -5
First of all, let me say the grammar leaves a lot to be desired. Secondly, it sounds like this R1 was inexperienced, which is not at all uncommon in lower levels of USAV club tournaments. As for having an adult as the R2...I have been an official, and I prefer the kids!! It is the discretion of the tourney, if an adult is mandated to be the R2; the kids R2 99% of their tourneys, and then they throw adults in there for the most important matches? Having an adult pay attention to the net instead of watching the ball, or knowing rotations, or even the proper hand signals is rare. If you have been an R1 for even 1 club season, you know you are basically doing the job by yourself, and hopefully you can see everything. I was ecstatic when I had good line judges and an R2 who actually transitioned and knew the proper hand signals. All that to say, it really really sucks if the officiating caused you to lose; BUT sometimes that happens. I know that this tournament was very hard-up for officials, they were offering payment for flights to and from, hotel stays for the whole week between weekends, per diem, etc. If you are in the Liberty Division, you probably aren't getting a certified R2, and even if you are, they may not be that experienced anyway. There is always Regionals to earn that bid, or perhaps you are going to another qualifier. Good luck! There was plenty of refs there. Our game right after for 3rd place had all head officials which didn’t make sense since it was not for a bid. If the next work crew is all head officials, that means they DIDN'T have enough officials, and were piecing together work crews to cover matches.
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