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Post by cribbit on Apr 10, 2023 13:51:33 GMT -5
These rulebooks have been converging and seem to fully match now. What are the remaining differences? CBVA adopted the dunk block rules and now explicitly tries to match AVP, who in turn almost entirely matches FIVB.
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Post by poorlambourne on Apr 10, 2023 14:09:30 GMT -5
Technically in the CBVA you cannot block a ball that is not intentionally sent over the net by the other team, i.e. an overset or overpass.
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Post by lessismore on Apr 11, 2023 10:15:28 GMT -5
Technically in the CBVA you cannot block a ball that is not intentionally sent over the net by the other team, i.e. an overset or overpass. By block you mean dunk/redirect block, right? I’m pretty sure I’ve seen this on the AVP and FIVB, but CBVA doesn’t allow it? Any good reason for this? Or do they just hate the redirect block and want to limit when you can use it? |
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Post by poorlambourne on Apr 11, 2023 10:24:58 GMT -5
Technically in the CBVA you cannot block a ball that is not intentionally sent over the net by the other team, i.e. an overset or overpass. By block you mean dunk/redirect block, right? I’m pretty sure I’ve seen this on the AVP and FIVB, but CBVA doesn’t allow it? Any good reason for this? Or do they just hate the redirect block and want to limit when you can use it? Correct |
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Post by lessismore on Apr 11, 2023 11:06:30 GMT -5
By block you mean dunk/redirect block, right? I’m pretty sure I’ve seen this on the AVP and FIVB, but CBVA doesn’t allow it? Any good reason for this? Or do they just hate the redirect block and want to limit when you can use it? Correct This play happens so infrequently anyway that I’m glad this is the only inconsistency in the rules. But it feels weird that players who play both AVP (any level) and CBVA have to adjust. I’m a blocker, so clearly I like the dunk block because the offense already has so much advantage that I need every advantage I can get. I can see how old schoolers don’t like it because it’s new (when exactly did it get allowed?), but I like that it immediately punishes a bad overpass or overset. I suppose CBVA would want me to block it with rigid hands? That feels clunky. Plus, with re-directing, you can still get called for a catch if your contact is too long. I guess my other options would be to either attack it (swing or shot, but only if the ball is a good set for me), try and joust an overset (if the attacker tries to play the ball at all), or stay on the ground and play it back to my partner, a tough transition that makes it more difficult to capitalize on my opponent’s error. |
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Post by stephenasinjin on Apr 11, 2023 11:28:22 GMT -5
This play happens so infrequently anyway that I’m glad this is the only inconsistency in the rules. But it feels weird that players who play both AVP (any level) and CBVA have to adjust. I’m a blocker, so clearly I like the dunk block because the offense already has so much advantage that I need every advantage I can get. I can see how old schoolers don’t like it because it’s new (when exactly did it get allowed?), but I like that it immediately punishes a bad overpass or overset. I suppose CBVA would want me to block it with rigid hands? That feels clunky. Plus, with re-directing, you can still get called for a catch if your contact is too long. I guess my other options would be to either attack it (swing or shot, but only if the ball is a good set for me), try and joust an overset (if the attacker tries to play the ball at all), or stay on the ground and play it back to my partner, a tough transition that makes it more difficult to capitalize on my opponent’s error. Lot of the reasons you mentioned are the reasons I’ll go to war with old heads over this rule change. I don’t care that it leads to controversy in your 50+ year old pickup games (mad respect for those over 50 still playing). Allowing the redirect helps correct the power imbalance created at the high levels by punishing blockers for the other team making a ball control error. Often stepping back isn’t an option because the attacker will get there. Also not fair to allow the attacker to last second withdraw his jousting hand to then earn an open handed tip call. Also corrects the overpasses with enough time that then become trap sets for the blocker. It more effectively punishes teams for ball control errors. Case closed. |
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Post by wilbur on Apr 11, 2023 11:28:50 GMT -5
These rulebooks have been converging and seem to fully match now. What are the remaining differences? CBVA adopted the dunk block rules and now explicitly tries to match AVP, who in turn almost entirely matches FIVB. I don't think the cbva has adopted the dunk block rule offically but in open (AAA) and some AA the teams play that way because they are training to play AVP and used to it but technically I think it is a fault if going by the book. CBVA also offically says in rule book you can not hand set the serve, I think AVP and international it has been unwritten but seems like some players are challenging that status quo. Biggest difference is CBVA is player reffed for most part and hand setting standards calls vary a lot. |
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Post by Winbabywin on Apr 11, 2023 12:51:17 GMT -5
As far as I know, receiving a serve with open hands has never been illegal...on the AVP nor the FIVB (I'm not familiar with CBVA rules). If you can hand set a serve and it is not a double or a throw, there is no fault. Obviously, it is extremely rare that someone does it, but merely attempting it has never been illegal.
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Post by pepperclove on Apr 11, 2023 13:16:28 GMT -5
Unless it has changed in the past year or two, CBVA requires that hands be together on serve-receive and non-driven balls during a rally - you cannot double a serve or other first contact (other than a driven hit). This is obviously a substantial difference from the AVP and FIVB rules. (I think a clean set of a non-driven ball would still be legal under the CBVA rules, not sure about cleanly setting a serve, but I think if it's truly clean, it should always be legal.)
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Post by sonofdogman on Apr 11, 2023 14:36:56 GMT -5
As far as I know, receiving a serve with open hands has never been illegal...on the AVP nor the FIVB (I'm not familiar with CBVA rules). If you can hand set a serve and it is not a double or a throw, there is no fault. Obviously, it is extremely rare that someone does it, but merely attempting it has never been illegal. I think, can be wrong here, that the old AVP rulebook - like '80's and '90's - may have explicitly prohibited hand setting the serve. But certainly it's been out of the book and allowed for a long time now. |
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Post by wilbur on Apr 11, 2023 14:58:33 GMT -5
CBVA clearly prohibits setting a serve in current rule book. Probably because there are player refs, and it is better to keep the arguments to a minimum. Take a first contact that isn't a serve in a CBVA tourney and see what happens for yourself.
AVP and international do not as far as I have read. A good player can do it successfully at a pretty high percentage (75%+) for most float serves but it doesn't make a lot of sense to do so and take that risk. First, there is a second touch to better the ball if the bump pass is not perfect, so the same precision is not critical like it is for 2nd contacts. And secondly, the ball is moving faster than it is on second contacts so it is harder to do.
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Post by wilbur on Apr 11, 2023 15:05:01 GMT -5
Unless it has changed in the past year or two, CBVA requires that hands be together on serve-receive and non-driven balls during a rally - you cannot double a serve or other first contact (other than a driven hit). This is obviously a substantial difference from the AVP and FIVB rules. (I think a clean set of a non-driven ball would still be legal under the CBVA rules, not sure about cleanly setting a serve, but I think if it's truly clean, it should always be legal.) CVBA rule book section 15.9: If during reception of a serve, a player attempts to receive serve in an open handed setting motion, it is a fault and the serving team wins the point. don't believe everything you read on the internet kids, adding above to help tournament directors! |
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Post by wilbur on Apr 11, 2023 15:15:17 GMT -5
These rulebooks have been converging and seem to fully match now. What are the remaining differences? CBVA adopted the dunk block rules and now explicitly tries to match AVP, who in turn almost entirely matches FIVB. I don't think the cbva has adopted the dunk block rule offically but in open (AAA) and some AA the teams play that way because they are training to play AVP and used to it but technically I think it is a fault if going by the book. CBVA also offically says in rule book you can not hand set the serve, I think AVP and international it has been unwritten but seems like some players are challenging that status quo. Biggest difference is CBVA is player reffed for most part and hand setting standards calls vary a lot. While I had the rule book open I noticed that the block rule is such that you can redirect the ball similar to international and AVP rules: 17.4 BLOCKING CONTACT ... ● The blocker may break their wrists to direct a ball as long as it is quick, in one direction, and with one motion. Updated March 6, 2023 This is different than I remember it and I think updated last month. Great to know! |
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Post by cribbit on Apr 12, 2023 23:58:41 GMT -5
Old rules:  Given the "continuous contacts" line, seems you could always dunk anything besides overpass/overset? And even for those, it seems you still could once it broke the plane of the net. But few called it that way. The new rules adds the "break wrists" bulletpoint and removes the overpass/overset language from "BLOCK WITHIN THE OPPONENT’S SPACE" Notable difference here defining attack hits, vs AVP and FIVB, where it is "All actions to direct the ball towards the opponent, except when serving and blocking" |
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jhw
Freshman
2023 Chicago Open Fantasy Beach Champion
Posts: 80
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Post by jhw on May 12, 2023 11:18:46 GMT -5
Kind of a rule question: Do CBVA A/AA/Open levels directly convert to AVP A/AA/Open levels or is there a difference?
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