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Post by bobinmd on Oct 8, 2023 20:08:29 GMT -5
What does that even mean? Once again facts prove you are a liar. These are facts, you denying that doesn't matter. Stop playing the Fox FOOL. He’s a strange guy.
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Post by ironhammer on Oct 8, 2023 20:31:18 GMT -5
The tragic thing is that whenever peace was close at hand in the Middle East, someone triggers something to prevent that. In this case, its Iran. The Iranians want to derail Israel-Saudi normalization talks. In other cases, it would be Israelis or Arabs who have an interest prolonging the state of tension and conflict, if you look at the assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Rabin by an extremist Israeli in 1995. Or the killing of Egyptian President Sadat in 1979 by Egyptians themselves who were opposed to Israeli-Egyptian peace and normalization of ties.
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Post by mervinswerved on Oct 8, 2023 20:37:13 GMT -5
If Israel had actually chosen the barbaric option(s), as you accuse them of, this wouldn't even be a conversation because Palestinians would not exist. A decades-long blockade and aerial bombing campaign against civilian targets counts as barbaric.
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Post by Mocha on Oct 8, 2023 20:37:45 GMT -5
That’s a screen capture from a video game. 😂
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Post by c4ndlelight on Oct 8, 2023 20:42:49 GMT -5
If Israel had actually chosen the barbaric option(s), as you accuse them of, this wouldn't even be a conversation because Palestinians would not exist. A decades-long blockade and aerial bombing campaign against civilian targets counts as barbaric. "Civilian targets" is doing a lot of work in this context.
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Post by mervinswerved on Oct 8, 2023 20:47:48 GMT -5
A decades-long blockade and aerial bombing campaign against civilian targets counts as barbaric. "Civilian targets" is doing a lot of work in this context. I'll find another way to describe apartment buildings and hospitals.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Oct 8, 2023 20:50:38 GMT -5
"Civilian targets" is doing a lot of work in this context. I'll find another way to describe apartment buildings and hospitals. When military operations are based out of apartment buildings and hospitals, or they are used to store rockets, they stop being civilian targets. But way to endorse genocidal propaganda!
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Post by ironhammer on Oct 8, 2023 20:51:24 GMT -5
It does look like the prospect of peace will forever be hopeless in the Middle East right now. But in fairness, there has been progress towards peace in the Middle East over the decades, albeit at a painfully slow pace and punctuated by repeated bloodsheds. Its like whenever a party takes one step towards peace, subsequent events force them to take two steps back. But in the long-term trend, there does seem a slow snail crawl to some peace, or at least, a more stable state of relations between Israel and its Arab neighbours. For example, at the outset of the creation of Israel, all other Arab countries were essentially its enemy and pledged to eradicate Israel off the map. But over the decades and several wars later, both Israel and at least a few neighboring Arab countries realized they must find some way to co-exist. Hence Egypt and Jordan stablish peace accords with Israel. And if even a fundamentalist regime like Saudi Arabia is at least entertaining the thought of normalization of ties with Israel, that alone is progress.
The main sticking point is one Iran, the troublemaker of the region. They remain opposed to Israel in all aspects and see it their goal that Middle East remains a powder keg. The other is of course the Palestianian-Israeli settler conflict. You have aggressive militant settlers (which actually many Israelis find repugnant) who engage in aggressive attacks on Palestinians, and of course, the Palestinians who launch terror attacks on Israelis, triggering Israeli reprisals. That cycle of violence remains.
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Post by mervinswerved on Oct 8, 2023 20:59:15 GMT -5
I'll find another way to describe apartment buildings and hospitals. When military operations are based out of apartment buildings and hospitals, or they are used to store rockets, they stop being civilian targets. But way to endorse genocidal propaganda! Okie dokie.
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Post by mikegarrison on Oct 8, 2023 21:28:21 GMT -5
But way to endorse genocidal propaganda! This seems extremely unintentionally ironic, to me. Please explain to me all the choices that Israel offered to the residents of Gaza over the past decade or so. What part of Israeli policy with respect to Gaza was not simply pointing a gun at them and saying "you get rid of Hamas for us, or we'll keep you penned up in there for the rest of eternity"? What was the exit path that Israel offered?
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Post by c4ndlelight on Oct 8, 2023 21:39:50 GMT -5
But way to endorse genocidal propaganda! This seems extremely unintentionally ironic, to me. Please explain to me all the choices that Israel offered to the residents of Gaza over the past decade or so. What part of Israeli policy with respect to Gaza was not simply pointing a gun at them and saying "you get rid of Hamas for us, or we'll keep you penned up in there for the rest of eternity"? What was the exit path that Israel offered? They offered them the choice to not fire thousands of rocket attacks at Israeli, which is what they have done over the past decade. That might have changed policy. But you're right - there is no off-ramp here because the Palestinians refuse to consider an exit that doesn't entail the extermination of Israel. There is only one side here committed to the complete annihilation of the other side, and you're supporting them.
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Post by guest2 on Oct 8, 2023 22:06:27 GMT -5
It does look like the prospect of peace will forever be hopeless in the Middle East right now. But in fairness, there has been progress towards peace in the Middle East over the decades, albeit at a painfully slow pace and punctuated by repeated bloodsheds. Its like whenever a party takes one step towards peace, subsequent events force them to take two steps back. But in the long-term trend, there does seem a slow snail crawl to some peace, or at least, a more stable state of relations between Israel and its Arab neighbours. For example, at the outset of the creation of Israel, all other Arab countries were essentially its enemy and pledged to eradicate Israel off the map. But over the decades and several wars later, both Israel and at least a few neighboring Arab countries realized they must find some way to co-exist. Hence Egypt and Jordan stablish peace accords with Israel. And if even a fundamentalist regime like Saudi Arabia is at least entertaining the thought of normalization of ties with Israel, that alone is progress. The main sticking point is one Iran, the troublemaker of the region. They remain opposed to Israel in all aspects and see it their goal that Middle East remains a powder keg. The other is of course the Palestianian-Israeli settler conflict. You have aggressive militant settlers (which actually many Israelis find repugnant) who engage in aggressive attacks on Palestinians, and of course, the Palestinians who launch terror attacks on Israelis, triggering Israeli reprisals. That cycle of violence remains. Progress over the decades? What countries are you referring to? Israel and Palestine have been shooting at each other more or less non-stop since the last Intifada, Syria is in the midst of a civil war that has killed or displaced millions, Egypt is less than a decade from its most recent coup/revolution etc. Yemen is in the midst of an ongoing civil war, fueled in part by its neighbors. I guess Lebanon has been somewhat calm recently, by comparison anyway. Has Iraq strung together a few calm years yet?
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Post by ironhammer on Oct 8, 2023 22:09:14 GMT -5
It does look like the prospect of peace will forever be hopeless in the Middle East right now. But in fairness, there has been progress towards peace in the Middle East over the decades, albeit at a painfully slow pace and punctuated by repeated bloodsheds. Its like whenever a party takes one step towards peace, subsequent events force them to take two steps back. But in the long-term trend, there does seem a slow snail crawl to some peace, or at least, a more stable state of relations between Israel and its Arab neighbours. For example, at the outset of the creation of Israel, all other Arab countries were essentially its enemy and pledged to eradicate Israel off the map. But over the decades and several wars later, both Israel and at least a few neighboring Arab countries realized they must find some way to co-exist. Hence Egypt and Jordan stablish peace accords with Israel. And if even a fundamentalist regime like Saudi Arabia is at least entertaining the thought of normalization of ties with Israel, that alone is progress. The main sticking point is one Iran, the troublemaker of the region. They remain opposed to Israel in all aspects and see it their goal that Middle East remains a powder keg. The other is of course the Palestianian-Israeli settler conflict. You have aggressive militant settlers (which actually many Israelis find repugnant) who engage in aggressive attacks on Palestinians, and of course, the Palestinians who launch terror attacks on Israelis, triggering Israeli reprisals. That cycle of violence remains. Progress over the decades? What countries are you referring to? Israel and Palestine have been shooting at each other more or less non-stop since the last Intifada, Syria is in the midst of a civil war that has killed or displaced millions, Egypt is less than a decade from its most recent coup/revolution etc. Yemen is in the midst of an ongoing civil war, fueled in part by its neighbors. I guess Lebanon has been somewhat calm recently, by comparison anyway. Has Iraq strung together a few calm years yet? Yes progress. Painfully slow progress with many setbacks. But still progress nevertheless. Read up on modern Middle Eastern history before you come back for your next post.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2023 22:27:08 GMT -5
I'll find another way to describe apartment buildings and hospitals. When military operations are based out of apartment buildings and hospitals, or they are used to store rockets, they stop being civilian targets. But way to endorse genocidal propaganda! Given that Gaza is the size of a US county with a population the size of the Miami-Dade area, there's nothing really other than civilian targets. Where do you propose those people go since Israel doesn't let them leave Gaza? Hamas and 'Palestinians' are two different things. Suggesting they are all one big lump is ignorant, just as it is to lump all Israelis into the category of either Jewish or 'Israeli'. No one involved is monolithic. What Hamas has done is wrong. It is a terrorist attack. But what do you suggest the Palestinians do? Offer a real answer because while people hem and haw, Israeli right-wing settlers ignore agreements and occupy territory that is supposed to be Palestinian, they force Palestinians in Jerusalem into a smaller and smaller enclave. Don't you find it ironic that a Jewish government aggressively keeps a minority penned up into enclaves and 'ghettos'?
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Post by XAsstCoach on Oct 8, 2023 22:29:53 GMT -5
How the land was divided by the UN in 1947 is still mind-boggling
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