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Post by stephenasinjin on Nov 7, 2023 10:43:33 GMT -5
It really depends on what was said or done. In the scenario you mention, I imagine if you had two friends, one an Aussie and the other a citizen of said country, one might ask you to speak out against your government and if you declined unfriend you reasonably, while the other might see what your country did as wrong but not care whether you said so or not. We have no idea, unless they have publicly said, how the Russian players feel about what their country is doing. There are a bunch of players on the World Tour who are from countries either directly affected (Ukraine itself) or who share a border with Russia. Its easy to see how they might be less forgiving than a team from Chile. The individual v team distinction with regard to who can compete as neutral may be the dumbest thing I can think of I remember Stoya and Krasilnikov posted black "No war" posts on IG when the war broke out. Krasilnikov's was erased soon (24 hours or so). Stoya's lasted longer, not sure how long. Back then such posts were getting Russians jailed.
stephenasinjin forgot, or wasn't considering, the women in his post. I think they could be Elite16 regulars and some younger ones could have emerged (maybe?) as interesting challengers.
I was never a fan of the banning of indivudual athletes because of the crimes of their gobverment, this came under IOC recommendation (back then the FIVB was strongly critizied for being too slow) and after the ROC debacle in Tokio with the doping scandals.
Edit: I miss the others as athletes, but not Semenov. His antics were too much for my taste.
I’m not nearly as familiar with the international women’s scene unfortunately so I didn’t include Russian women due to my own lack of knowledge. My interest/following the womens game increased significantly in 2022/23 but that meant no Russia. |
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Post by beachmilovice on Nov 7, 2023 16:05:59 GMT -5
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Post by robvolei on Nov 7, 2023 20:51:55 GMT -5
That's interesting. Happened lat month 5-8 October. Maybe this is a loop hole for Russians to play some of the top teams if the top teams agree to play a bvb club tournament. |
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Post by dunninla3 on Nov 7, 2023 22:51:14 GMT -5
That's interesting. Happened lat month 5-8 October. Maybe this is a loop hole for Russians to play some of the top teams if the top teams agree to play a bvb club tournament. I don't care under which promotion they play... I just want to see them play. I want VBW tv to stream it. |
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Post by pepperclove on Nov 8, 2023 12:56:49 GMT -5
The individual vs. team distinction makes a certain amount of sense, but . . . in figure skating in the last Olympics, Russian athletes competed not only in individual competitions but also in pairs (which seems particularly comparable to beach volleyball) and even in the team competition. I remember wondering why they were allowed to compete as a team at the time.
So I think if it's a sport where Russia is sufficiently high profile, they bend/change the rules to allow them to compete.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Nov 8, 2023 13:01:41 GMT -5
The individual vs. team distinction makes a certain amount of sense, but . . . in figure skating in the last Olympics, Russian athletes competed not only in individual competitions but also in pairs (which seems particularly comparable to beach volleyball) and even in the team competition. I remember wondering why they were allowed to compete as a team at the time. So I think if it's a sport where Russia is sufficiently high profile, they bend/change the rules to allow them to compete. Russia didn't invade until after the last Winter Olympic Games (apparently at China's request). |
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Post by pepperclove on Nov 8, 2023 13:26:24 GMT -5
Oh, good catch c4ndlelight! I wasn't thinking that the ban on Russia at that time was "just" for all the performance-enhancing drug use.
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Post by trianglevolleyball on Nov 8, 2023 13:29:37 GMT -5
Tennis player Daría Kasatkina is the best example of the dynamic of a Russian national who clearly should be allowed in the Olympics, as she has been banned from entering Russia since February 2022. Her case is unique though, because although she has been by far the most outspoken against Putin in tennis, she’s also a proud lesbian which could just as much contribute to how the country has discarded her.
The individual distinction does make sense to me as a tennis fan, as playing under the Olympic flag is really something only that makes sense for individuals. As the amount of stateless people grows due to global crisis and climate change, I think it’s important to have a space for players not competing for a country. That distinction weakens if it’s a group of people from the same country competing as stateless.
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Post by larabeach on Nov 8, 2023 16:36:03 GMT -5
Not sure if totally relevant to this discussion, but the Venezuelan men went to last World Championships competing under the FIVB flag. Anyone knows why?
Maybe some Russian athletes could use that precedent and ask to compete under the FIVB flag in FIVB competitions?
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Post by ajm on Nov 8, 2023 17:13:35 GMT -5
Not sure if totally relevant to this discussion, but the Venezuelan men went to last World Championships competing under the FIVB flag. Anyone knows why? Maybe some Russian athletes could use that precedent and ask to compete under the FIVB flag in FIVB competitions? Previously discussed here: volleytalk.proboards.com/post/3520485/thread"FIVB has threatened to exclude Venezuela from participating in competitions unless Venezuela pays an old debt of $150.000. I don't think the issue has been resolved yet and the deadline was by the end of July so that might explain why the Venezuelan beach volley team has the FIVB flag." |
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Post by trianglevolleyball on Mar 6, 2024 17:40:13 GMT -5
Russian and Belarussian tennis players (including doubles) were ruled today as Olympics-eligible. Of course, it’s too late for the beach volleyball players, but just seems inconsistent.
I know in beach, you have to play with your own country, but it doesn’t really impact any part of the tour aside from Olympic Qualification now that country quotas are gone.
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Post by dunninla3 on Mar 6, 2024 18:16:54 GMT -5
I believe it probably is too late for Paris. The problem isn't acquiring 12 finishes, b/c even Futures events and Continental events count for that. The problem is getting to Top 18 in points, or else winning whatever Zone Competition Russia would be mapped into, presumably Europe. With Doha accounted for, there are I think only 8 events left in which Krasilnikov, Stoya, Leshekov and Semenov could attempt to get points.
Still, forget about Paris. These Russians could be playing FIVB World Tour, and we could be enjoying their play, starting, perhaps, now.
I would absolutely love to see how Stoya/leshekov and Semenov/Krasilnikov would do vs. current Mol/Sorum, and the Swedes, even CZE which are much improved the past year.
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Post by ajm on Mar 6, 2024 19:14:31 GMT -5
I believe it probably is too late for Paris. The problem isn't acquiring 12 finishes, b/c even Futures events and Continental events count for that. The problem is getting to Top 18 in points, or else winning whatever Zone Competition Russia would be mapped into, presumably Europe. With Doha accounted for, there are I think only 8 events left in which Krasilnikov, Stoya, Leshekov and Semenov could attempt to get points.
Still, forget about Paris. These Russians could be playing FIVB World Tour, and we could be enjoying their play, starting, perhaps, now.
I would absolutely love to see how Stoya/leshekov and Semenov/Krasilnikov would do vs. current Mol/Sorum, and the Swedes, even CZE which are much improved the past year.
You only need to play 6 events to be eligible for the Continental qualification pathway. There may be some National Tour or CEV events that count toward that also. |
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Post by beachcoach on Mar 7, 2024 2:21:34 GMT -5
I believe it probably is too late for Paris. The problem isn't acquiring 12 finishes, b/c even Futures events and Continental events count for that. The problem is getting to Top 18 in points, or else winning whatever Zone Competition Russia would be mapped into, presumably Europe. With Doha accounted for, there are I think only 8 events left in which Krasilnikov, Stoya, Leshekov and Semenov could attempt to get points.
Still, forget about Paris. These Russians could be playing FIVB World Tour, and we could be enjoying their play, starting, perhaps, now.
I would absolutely love to see how Stoya/leshekov and Semenov/Krasilnikov would do vs. current Mol/Sorum, and the Swedes, even CZE which are much improved the past year.
You only need to play 6 events to be eligible for the Continental qualification pathway. There may be some National Tour or CEV events that count toward that also. The continental Cup for europe began last year and the second/third roounds are already draw for May and then winners join those alreaedy advanced in mid june. |
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Post by houdini on Mar 7, 2024 3:29:54 GMT -5
The structure in Russia is very state-centric, meaning that the athletes more or less get a regular salary by the Russian state and can be seen somewhat as employees of the state. As a fan I would enjoy watching Russians play. But as a principled person, I think it would be morally reprehensible at this time. Sports in Russia are extremely politicized as they were during Hitler's time. Many athletes receive a salary from the military. The Olympics initially took place in times of peace and blatant aggressors should not be included if they use the opportunity to highlight their "superiority".
Some Ukranian athletes have been killed in Russia's aggression. How would other Ukranian athletes feel?
The situation in the Middle East with the International Court of Justice preliminary decision pronouncing a "plausible genocide" in Palestine could also raise questions regarding athletes.
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