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Post by vbkahuna on Sept 9, 2024 11:25:50 GMT -5
Where is our RPI after the weekend? We have now won more pre-season matches than last year or 2022. The two matches next weekend will be our biggest challenges. RPI is pretty much irrelevant at this point, it's not stable or a valuable measurement. USC was in the 300's last week and is now #3 after losing to Creighton and beating Kansas State. Illinois needs to root for the rest of the Big Ten, and root for all of its non-conference opponents to win as many matches as possible and then the RPI will fall into place. "...not stable or a valuable measurement." Agreed. And that's a darn good reason to dump it as a major metric for selecting at-large teams for the playoffs. Yes, it "gets better" as the season progresses with more matches played, but I've argued for quite a while that even then it has a fatal flaw in that it doesn't have any weighting factor for "recency". That is, it doesn't properly account for teams that get hot in the last half of the season and continues to drag down the current strength assessment due to first half results. Volleyball needs an improved metric to replace the RPI.
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trojansc
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Posts: 30,155
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Post by trojansc on Sept 9, 2024 11:33:31 GMT -5
RPI is pretty much irrelevant at this point, it's not stable or a valuable measurement. USC was in the 300's last week and is now #3 after losing to Creighton and beating Kansas State. Illinois needs to root for the rest of the Big Ten, and root for all of its non-conference opponents to win as many matches as possible and then the RPI will fall into place. "...not stable or a valuable measurement." Agreed. And that's a darn good reason to dump it as a major metric for selecting at-large teams for the playoffs. Yes, it "gets better" as the season progresses with more matches played, but I've argued for quite a while that even then it has a fatal flaw in that it doesn't have any weighting factor for "recency". That is, it doesn't properly account for teams that get hot in the last half of the season and continues to drag down the current strength assessment due to first half results. Volleyball needs an improved metric to replace the RPI. I think all of the results from a season should matter. What do you tell the mid-majors of the world who play in bad conferences, that their results in August/September, which are the most crucial of their season if they want an at-large or seed, matter... less? RPI's flaw is that it is too easy to get an inflated RPI by not actually playing tough competition, or playing the "wrong" teams could hurt your RPI because their W/L record is bad. I think volleyball just needs to be less reliant on RPI. Look at an overall body of work and multiple data points, but, RPI is certainly not one that a ton of weight should be given to. It's basically a S.O.S measurement, but not always as accurate as it should seemingly be.
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Post by Chewblocka on Sept 9, 2024 12:14:42 GMT -5
Can someone explain to me or help me understand passing and receiving statistics or how one evaluates back row? What should one look for to see how players are doing. If passing is an issue why not put Barry in there in the back row? And if Raina or Avery are not hitting the ball from the back would it not make sense to have more passing specialists. I guess after reading some of the comments I am wanting to educate myself on performance in the back court as I might be missing something with everyone talking about Caroline. Last question if you play teams you should beat easily (although this weekend it was not as easy as some said it would be) does that not hurt your RPI? Or is it as strategy to load up on lower level teams so boost your RPI? If that is the case then why are some big 10 playing more competitive teams? I have a feeling I am never going to truly understand RPI but here’s to whatever we are doing helping us get into the tournament this year.
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Post by alt on Sept 9, 2024 12:16:57 GMT -5
Few thoughts I watched the Iowa State game. Glad we were able to get away with the win being down 2-0. Good gritty win and at least we know this team can rally from behind.
Setting- Mosher needs to fix her connection with the OHs. I would say more than half of of the sets were too low/fast and Terry and Hernandez were not able to take full swings on the ball. The connection for some reason has been really bad this season. I think Reiley is the best setter on this team in terms of setting a good pace/height. I don't like a 6-2 but maybe Tamas should try it out with Mosher hitting upfront.
Passing- Serve receive has been struggling the last few games. Terry is a liability in serve receive and if they are not setting her back row I don't see why Barry does not come in and help out with serve recieve. Philpot is lethal and if we can't get a pass we cant't get her going.
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Post by Chewblocka on Sept 9, 2024 12:27:46 GMT -5
One last thought from the weekend. I had a discussion with another Vter and they seem to feel that although it’s great for Brooke to have the outstanding stats she did yesterday (as I have said well done Brooke!) their perspective is that if setting is an issue why are we not focusing on setting over her hitting the ball? They feel like she is all over the place and because of that her focus on setting is not ideal at all as discussed in other posts. Furthermore, If she is able to hit the ball better than some of her outside hitters this doesn’t mean she would be successful with Big 10 teams as we have watched this movie before and it’s not sustainable with her being so small. Maybe her setting is the issue and all this other stuff is taking away from her first job on the court which is to connect with her hitters? Very interested in your thoughts on this. If I am being honest I kind of feel for Avery in that she could not get sets she could put away but Brooke did from Regan. I know a win is a win, just interested in the perspective of those with lots of expertise in VB.
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Post by inpaign on Sept 9, 2024 12:42:53 GMT -5
Few thoughts I watched the Iowa State game. Glad we were able to get away with the win being down 2-0. Good gritty win and at least we know this team can rally from behind. Setting- Mosher needs to fix her connection with the OHs. I would say more than half of of the sets were too low/fast and Terry and Hernandez were not able to take full swings on the ball. The connection for some reason has been really bad this season. I think Reiley is the best setter on this team in terms of setting a good pace/height. I don't like a 6-2 but maybe Tamas should try it out with Mosher hitting upfront. Passing- Serve receive has been struggling the last few games. Terry is a liability in serve receive and if they are not setting her back row I don't see why Barry does not come in and help out with serve recieve. Philpot is lethal and if we can't get a pass we cant't get her going. Completely agree with both of these takes. Terry can be a liability in serve receive but the reality is she is our captain and our best player (by a mile). Chris wants her on the court at all times and, although the serve receive is very frustrating, in a pinch she can get us out of some sticky situations with her offensive ability. Its a tough thing to balance.
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Post by vbkahuna on Sept 9, 2024 13:02:18 GMT -5
Can someone explain to me or help me understand passing and receiving statistics or how one evaluates back row? What should one look for to see how players are doing. If passing is an issue why not put Barry in there in the back row? And if Raina or Avery are not hitting the ball from the back would it not make sense to have more passing specialists. I guess after reading some of the comments I am wanting to educate myself on performance in the back court as I might be missing something with everyone talking about Caroline. Last question if you play teams you should beat easily (although this weekend it was not as easy as some said it would be) does that not hurt your RPI? Or is it as strategy to load up on lower level teams so boost your RPI? If that is the case then why are some big 10 playing more competitive teams? I have a feeling I am never going to truly understand RPI but here’s to whatever we are doing helping us get into the tournament this year. There's a specific metric for rating passers that is typically based on a 3-point scale. Every pass is given 0-3 points depending on how close it got to the ideal location for the setter to deliver her set to all her options (center of Zone 3, middle/front of net). So the closer the number is to 3, the better. Anything below 2 is not very good, as it means the setter is getting the ball farther away from the net and unable to set to all her hitters. When that happens, teams are unable to use their middles very much, and their OHs are getting blocked more frequently because the opponents know where to set is likely to go.
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Post by ilalum92 on Sept 9, 2024 13:08:43 GMT -5
Few thoughts I watched the Iowa State game. Glad we were able to get away with the win being down 2-0. Good gritty win and at least we know this team can rally from behind. Setting- Mosher needs to fix her connection with the OHs. I would say more than half of of the sets were too low/fast and Terry and Hernandez were not able to take full swings on the ball. The connection for some reason has been really bad this season. I think Reiley is the best setter on this team in terms of setting a good pace/height. I don't like a 6-2 but maybe Tamas should try it out with Mosher hitting upfront. Passing- Serve receive has been struggling the last few games. Terry is a liability in serve receive and if they are not setting her back row I don't see why Barry does not come in and help out with serve recieve. Philpot is lethal and if we can't get a pass we cant't get her going. Completely agree with both of these takes. Terry can be a liability in serve receive but the reality is she is our captain and our best player (by a mile). Chris wants her on the court at all times and, although the serve receive is very frustrating, in a pinch she can get us out of some sticky situations with her offensive ability. Its a tough thing to balance. Raina out of the backrow has been non-existent this year. I would sub her out after she serves for a DS. We would get better passing therefore a better offense.
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Post by vbkahuna on Sept 9, 2024 13:14:17 GMT -5
Raina stays on the court in every rotation because she gives the Illini a 4th attacking option (back row attacks) at all times. That's huge against the toughest opponents. As for her serve receive issues, that can be significantly minimized if the other 2 players in the back row are both very good passers (Mundo, Hernandez) and can hide her on serve receive. She's a pretty decent passer on second touch balls otherwise. However, if only one of the other back row players is a good serve receive passer, they can't hide her.
Just because they haven't used her very much on back row attacks so far against easier competition doesn't negate the value of having the threat there. And they're going to need it...soon.
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Post by Chewblocka on Sept 9, 2024 13:30:04 GMT -5
Can someone explain to me or help me understand passing and receiving statistics or how one evaluates back row? What should one look for to see how players are doing. If passing is an issue why not put Barry in there in the back row? And if Raina or Avery are not hitting the ball from the back would it not make sense to have more passing specialists. I guess after reading some of the comments I am wanting to educate myself on performance in the back court as I might be missing something with everyone talking about Caroline. Last question if you play teams you should beat easily (although this weekend it was not as easy as some said it would be) does that not hurt your RPI? Or is it as strategy to load up on lower level teams so boost your RPI? If that is the case then why are some big 10 playing more competitive teams? I have a feeling I am never going to truly understand RPI but here’s to whatever we are doing helping us get into the tournament this year. There's a specific metric for rating passers that is typically based on a 3-point scale. Every pass is given 0-3 points depending on how close it got to the ideal location for the setter to deliver her set to all her options (center of Zone 3, middle/front of net). So the closer the number is to 3, the better. Anything below 2 is not very good, as it means the setter is getting the ball farther away from the net and unable to set to all her hitters. When that happens, teams are unable to use their middles very much, and their OHs are getting blocked more frequently because the opponents know where to set is likely to go. Thank you!
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Post by ilalum92 on Sept 9, 2024 13:40:46 GMT -5
Raina stays on the court in every rotation because she gives the Illini a 4th attacking option (back row attacks) at all times. That's huge against the toughest opponents. As for her serve receive issues, that can be significantly minimized if the other 2 players in the back row are both very good passers (Mundo, Hernandez) and can hide her on serve receive. She's a pretty decent passer on second touch balls otherwise. However, if only one of the other back row players is a good serve receive passer, they can't hide her. Just because they haven't used her very much on back row attacks so far against easier competition doesn't negate the value of having the threat there. And they're going to need it...soon. Cost/ effect benefit. Does the "potential" of her back row attack cost +/- her passing/defensive play. If we were ever to be using it, it would be in non-conference where we could run it. During the BIG 10 season is not the time to test it out. Right now, we haven't been using it. I would rather have Barry in for two rotations.
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Post by jade58 on Sept 9, 2024 13:49:12 GMT -5
Someone earlier mentioned the knee brace on Bohm. Is she a little injured? Her block touches have helped but she looks a little slow and not jumping as high. I’ve read a few quotes that Illinois has depth on the bench this year, yet I still see the same players playing after 6 games (based on posted stats). If our setter is getting 10 kills and it appears the other MB’s and Pins aren’t seeing the floor, then the depth you are speaking of is DS position? What happens next year after we lose the 5 grads plus anyone entering the portal, are we going to be exposed, or is Tamas going to start building through the Portal in future. We’ve lost 2 players in the portal each of the last 2 years, so development may not be our strategy here. Thoughts?
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Post by ilalum92 on Sept 9, 2024 13:54:04 GMT -5
Someone earlier mentioned the knee brace on Bohm. Is she a little injured? Her block touches have helped but she looks a little slow and not jumping as high. I’ve read a few quotes that Illinois has depth on the bench this year, yet I still see the same players playing after 6 games (based on posted stats). If our setter is getting 10 kills and it appears the other MB’s and Pins aren’t seeing the floor, then the depth you are speaking of is DS position? What happens next year after we lose the 5 grads plus anyone entering the portal, are we going to be exposed, or is Tamas going to start building through the Portal in future. We’ve lost 2 players in the portal each of the last 2 years, so development may not be our strategy here. Thoughts? Burbage and Bingham are both injured so depth is an issue again. We have plenty of DS crew this year but with Raina & Averie playing 6 ro, it cuts down on their need. We finally have real back up at setter this year. We are still woefully thin on the pins & MB positions again. The players we lost in the portal didn't contribute.
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Post by jdl on Sept 9, 2024 14:05:28 GMT -5
RPI is pretty much irrelevant at this point, it's not stable or a valuable measurement. USC was in the 300's last week and is now #3 after losing to Creighton and beating Kansas State. Illinois needs to root for the rest of the Big Ten, and root for all of its non-conference opponents to win as many matches as possible and then the RPI will fall into place. "...not stable or a valuable measurement." Agreed. And that's a darn good reason to dump it as a major metric for selecting at-large teams for the playoffs. Yes, it "gets better" as the season progresses with more matches played, but I've argued for quite a while that even then it has a fatal flaw in that it doesn't have any weighting factor for "recency". That is, it doesn't properly account for teams that get hot in the last half of the season and continues to drag down the current strength assessment due to first half results. Volleyball needs an improved metric to replace the RPI. Yeah basketball bid good riddance to RPI some time ago, surprised it's still used anywhere.
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Post by ilalum92 on Sept 9, 2024 14:06:58 GMT -5
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