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Post by bbg95 on May 13, 2024 23:39:39 GMT -5
I find a lot of these comments rather illuminating. Not to take away from the purpose of volleytalk, which is to foster discussion, but at the end of the day, none of the complaints about what Heather is doing with the setters, or who she favors and why, or thinking its a mistake for certain players playing certain positions, actually matters. Taking issue with a few less wins in any given season on pure speculation just isn't going to move the needle. She also gets a lot of USAV attention, so it's obvious that the larger coaching circles don't see her as some sort of loose cannon that can't be trusted with the coaching reigns. If the Bowers want to continually pop out kids to feed to the BYU womens volleyball program, more power to them. If Heather wants to favor those players, more power to her. If you don't like it as a fan, then don't support BYU volleyball. I also find it a bit hard to feel sorry for the players that still decide to go to BYU volleyball, knowing all of this. If we here on volleytalk are talking about these things, you can bet it's not a secret on the ground and in the club circles, yet these players continually CHOOSE BYU volleyball. It's like we know John Cook is a douche bag who lies, but elite players line up at the door waiting for a Nebraska offer. If these players are unhappy, either don't sign with BYU in the first place, or transfer, seems pretty cut and dry to me. This is all very reasonable. I do wish marn would go away and bother some other fan base, but we appear to be stuck with them for now. The other thing that is kind of hilarious is that I've yet to see any actual evidence that Olmstead gives unwarranted preferential treatment to the Bowers. The ones so far: -Morgan played a decent amount her first couple of seasons, but once they got better back row players, she was mostly relegated to the bench -Whitney is literally a professional volleyball player that earned a lot of accolades in college, so it's hard to say she shouldn't have played -Eden has been in and out of the lineup in her two seasons--she gets benched when she struggles and comes in if someone else is struggling -Alex is a freshman who hasn't played an actual match yet, but she was a highly-rated recruit, so we'll see how she does Also, marn has some kind of bizarre ax to grind with Olmstead and/or the Bowers that I don't really understand. Take anything they say with a grain of salt. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on May 15, 2024 1:16:54 GMT -5
Husky, I think your comments are what is taking shape now in regards to BYU. A lot of people just refused to see what was going on in the program and didn't want to believe it. Most people were mystified at the Lewis girl getting bagged, Madi Rob getting elevated, back row recruiting disaster after disaster and then the Meyer girl entered the pic. That got people thinking there is a problem, but W Bower was pretty good so most lived with it and assumed the best. Damuni is a whole level above that situation. Not because she was better than Meyer but because she is way better than Alex Bower. Plus, Meyer was from the Midwest and not many were familiar with her except high level club coaches. Damumi has a big presence in Utah and at the national level. If Meyer were from Utah all hell would have broken loose in BYU circles when she wasn't even allowed to see the court. Using "hell" in the Halloween context...... I think everyone will see the issue you have described unfold at BYU in the setting dept for the next 3-4 years. Heather better win or the voices in the ear of the athletic dept admin will get a lot louder. The same chilling impact will occur at OH if Eden gets that job gifted to her for the 3rd year in a row and then loses it again based on performance. But, I am sounding the alarm on A Bower setting her sister vs her sister's competition. Just watch location when so and so is on the floor vs when Eden is. It is like a quarterback having his brother as a wide receiver on the same team .... and being in competition with one other guy for the starting wide out position. Stuff just happens .. Meh, I still feel like not looking as sharp to real volleyball followers or even the "potential" for a few less wins per year just isn't going to move the needle on Olmstead, but I guess we'll see. And I think this is exactly the calculated risk that Heather decided to take. It will be a couple of wins less this year, but I think the biggest threat is long-term rather than short-term and it will be the recruiting dept at setter and OH. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on May 15, 2024 1:35:33 GMT -5
I find a lot of these comments rather illuminating. Not to take away from the purpose of volleytalk, which is to foster discussion, but at the end of the day, none of the complaints about what Heather is doing with the setters, or who she favors and why, or thinking its a mistake for certain players playing certain positions, actually matters. Taking issue with a few less wins in any given season on pure speculation just isn't going to move the needle. She also gets a lot of USAV attention, so it's obvious that the larger coaching circles don't see her as some sort of loose cannon that can't be trusted with the coaching reigns. If the Bowers want to continually pop out kids to feed to the BYU womens volleyball program, more power to them. If Heather wants to favor those players, more power to her. If you don't like it as a fan, then don't support BYU volleyball. I also find it a bit hard to feel sorry for the players that still decide to go to BYU volleyball, knowing all of this. If we here on volleytalk are talking about these things, you can bet it's not a secret on the ground and in the club circles, yet these players continually CHOOSE BYU volleyball. It's like we know John Cook is a douche bag who lies, but elite players line up at the door waiting for a Nebraska offer. If these players are unhappy, either don't sign with BYU in the first place, or transfer, seems pretty cut and dry to me. This is all very reasonable. I do wish marn would go away and bother some other fan base, but we appear to be stuck with them for now. The other thing that is kind of hilarious is that I've yet to see any actual evidence that Olmstead gives unwarranted preferential treatment to the Bowers. The ones so far: -Morgan played a decent amount her first couple of seasons, but once they got better back row players, she was mostly relegated to the bench -Whitney is literally a professional volleyball player that earned a lot of accolades in college, so it's hard to say she shouldn't have played -Eden has been in and out of the lineup in her two seasons--she gets benched when she struggles and comes in if someone else is struggling -Alex is a freshman who hasn't played an actual match yet, but she was a highly-rated recruit, so we'll see how she does Also, marn has some kind of bizarre ax to grind with Olmstead and/or the Bowers that I don't really understand. Take anything they say with a grain of salt. Debunk the bbg again - Morgan Bower didnt play a decent amount of time her first couple of seasons. That is a ridiculous statement. She was so bad that she never started a match and Heather kept her on the roster for 4 full years which kept other DS's/L's from being recruited. Whitney is on a professional team. Hasn't started or even played the setting position in a real match, yet! Eden - well I think everyone can see what has gone on with Eden over the last 2 years. They can judge for themselves. Alex is a highly rated recruit that has never played a college match. Judging how good Bower is and encouraging her competition to leave to play else where is very odd considering that Alex Bower hasn't even played .... but she has lost a number of spring matches while she is on the floor. No ax to grind, just accountability! |
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Post by charger0304 on May 15, 2024 8:58:02 GMT -5
This is all very reasonable. I do wish marn would go away and bother some other fan base, but we appear to be stuck with them for now. The other thing that is kind of hilarious is that I've yet to see any actual evidence that Olmstead gives unwarranted preferential treatment to the Bowers. The ones so far: -Morgan played a decent amount her first couple of seasons, but once they got better back row players, she was mostly relegated to the bench -Whitney is literally a professional volleyball player that earned a lot of accolades in college, so it's hard to say she shouldn't have played -Eden has been in and out of the lineup in her two seasons--she gets benched when she struggles and comes in if someone else is struggling -Alex is a freshman who hasn't played an actual match yet, but she was a highly-rated recruit, so we'll see how she does Also, marn has some kind of bizarre ax to grind with Olmstead and/or the Bowers that I don't really understand. Take anything they say with a grain of salt. Debunk the bbg again - Morgan Bower didnt play a decent amount of time her first couple of seasons. That is a ridiculous statement. She was so bad that she never started a match and Heather kept her on the roster for 4 full years which kept other DS's/L's from being recruited. Whitney is on a professional team. Hasn't started or even played the setting position in a real match, yet! Eden - well I think everyone can see what has gone on with Eden over the last 2 years. They can judge for themselves. Alex is a highly rated recruit that has never played a college match. Judging how good Bower is and encouraging her competition to leave to play else where is very odd considering that Alex Bower hasn't even played .... but she has lost a number of spring matches while she is on the floor. No ax to grind, just accountability! Your perseveration might actually be clinical. Please get help. |
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Post by bbg95 on May 15, 2024 9:20:09 GMT -5
I didn't say Morgan Bower started or that she was particularly good. I said she played a decent amount her first two years, as she played in about 20 percent of the sets. She appeared in more sets in her freshman year (23) than her junior and senior years combined (17). As for Whitney, do I really need to point out how ridiculous it is to suggest that she isn't any good because she's a rookie that hasn't started for the best team in the PVF yet? Atlanta was under no obligation to draft her, much less keep her on the roster all season. They could cut her if they didn't think she had potential. But they haven't. She was also WCC Player of the Year, WCC Setter of the Year x2 and First-Team All-Big 12. Other coaches gave her those awards. Also, lol at anyone putting a lot of stock in the results of spring matches. They are literally meaningless exhibitions. We'll see how Alex Bower does when the real season starts.
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Post by cilantro13 on May 15, 2024 10:45:25 GMT -5
Long-time lurker, BYU volleyball follower since '92. I have followed this conversation with interest because it confirms much of what many of us lay fans have started to read between the lines. At my house, we watch lots of games and even got to attend live when the team came our direction (UCF) last fall.
I believe Marn to be more right than wrong. Something feels off with the Bower connection and Coach Olmstead. I don't understand why there appears to be little to no competition at the setter position this spring. Especially with an unproven Freshman coming in, who has never felt the pressure of or performed at this level of competition, compared with a very high-quality setter already on the roster who has patiently paid her dues for a shot. I am not that surprised because Coach Olmstead hasn't seemed to invite competition at the setter position for years. I think Whitney Bower was good. She was a good setter, great with the kills (but never against top notch competition), and brought competitive fire to the team. I don't think she was or is a top tier setter, but I admit it has been really hard to judge with BYU's awful passing over the last seasons.
On the other hand, I have never understood why Eden Bower was given the starting job virtually from the moment she walked onto campus. Her rating coming out of high school is irrelevant because she hasn't been good or produced at the college level. Period. She is a liability in the back, particularly with her passing. She is a liability up front with her block and her swing. I think both Stowell and Callahan were better in the last two years, and both were inexplicitly benched most of the time. When Stowell got a chance last year, she seemed to be on the shortest possible leash for errors. If she made one or two errors (notwithstanding poor service), she was yanked and Bower was back. Bower on the other hand made error after error and was given tremendous latitude to play through.
Just two examples of what feels wrong. I think Coach Olmstead is great coach. But she seems to have weaknesses I hope she figures out soon. First as recited above with undue influence regarding the Bowers, and second inflexibility making in-game adjustments and putting the best players on the court. And by best players, I mean both skill and current form.
With respect to the Olmstead-Bower connection, I too am extremely concerned that this perception is growing among the fans and volleyball community. It will be a problem recruiting. Right now, what top tier hitters or setters would consider BYU when it appears they won't have a shot to earn a place with their merits.
The whole thing feels disheartening to me. Particularly what appears to be blind loyalty to the Bower clan. I definitely feel less excited to watch until the Bower girls have cycled through the system. And also let me just say, because we are talking about real human beings, the Bower sisters and the family seem genuinely lovely. But they should have to earn their spots on the team and their playing time through their play rather than any other influence. And given what I have seen over the last two seasons, it sure feels like it is the latter, not the former, that is getting them on the court.
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Post by bbg95 on May 15, 2024 12:37:39 GMT -5
I don't think Eden Bower is that good either, but the fact is that Stowell or anyone else not named Livingston wasn't consistent enough last year to win the job permanently. If they were, then Eden wouldn't get more chances. It's too bad Little got hurt because I think she probably would have been able to do it if she stayed healthy. As for Whitney Bower, we can debate just how good she was, but what isn't debatable is that she was the best setter on the roster. As such, she deserved to play. Period. And what isn't debatable is that other coaches (i.e. not Olmstead) thought highly enough of her to give her those awards, draft her in the second round, and keep her on the roster. Again, the oldest Bower barely played in her last two seasons because she wasn't good enough. And Livingston was a walk-on originally, but she was good enough that she became a permanent starter and was never remotely threatened by E. Bower, lol.
I also think it's bizarre to act like setting was a major issue for BYU when they've had good setters for eight straight seasons between Lyndie Haddock-Eppich (another walk-on) and Whitney Bower. Even the year where Bower got hurt, the backup played pretty well in her place. There's plenty to be critical of in recent seasons, but most of it is with the passing. It remains to be seen with Alex Bower, but that's a position BYU has a good track record with recently. Forgive me if I want to see how she actually does in real matches before engaging in tinfoil conspiracy speculation with no real evidence. And if it's true that Damuni is going on a mission (which I've seen reported here and elsewhere), then she wouldn't be available for the next two seasons anyway.
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vvv
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Post by vvv on May 15, 2024 22:36:33 GMT -5
I did hear Damuni is going on a mission, but she wasn't sure when she would serve. After spring and the lack of actual competition given to her, she decided not to waste a year of eligibility ( being that she burned her redshirt year) and enter the transfer portal before heading on a mission. I think her reason, if true, makes sense. The source I heard it from said she was not about to play behind A bower for Fall, go on a mission and lose a year of eligibility. Apparantely ( i could be wrong) Damuni never played a set at setter when they played UNLV. As far as the transfer portal, I don't know the background on that because the other girls who went on missions did not enter the portal... or did they? I am not sure. But, that shows she probably doesn't have the desire to come back and play at BYU and will take her talents ( which are a lot) elsewhere. Exactly what Meyer did. Both could have maybe proven themselves 100 percent, but both seem to have thought they would not be given that chance and didn't want to stick around to find out. I do believe that the word is much more out with the Bower connection and Olmstead, than it has been in the past and especially setters as Olmstead only runs a 5-1, will shy away after watching Meyer, Decker and Damuni transfer out. I have said this before, although many knock Marn and his opinions/comments, I, like Cilantro, see some truth in all of this until proven otherwise.
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vvv
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Post by vvv on May 15, 2024 22:45:59 GMT -5
I also forgot to agree with cilantro on Stowell and her short leash. It was as marn may say "mind boggling," to watch it unfold as she would make errors, be taken out, eden would go in, make some errors and then the next game be starting again. I have noticed this, but don't know as much in this area as I do with the setting because of being in the same club. So, it was interesting to see someone else see points that Marn has actually been bringing up for a while now.
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vvv
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Post by vvv on May 15, 2024 22:58:13 GMT -5
I also believe A Bower will develop and be very good when the season starts. The problem I think that is going on here is, as cilantro mentioned, why would a player who also has high accolades, even higher in terms of club play, and has been in the system for a year, not be given the same reps in the meaningless spring matches to prove who should really set for Fall? That is where the concern of the Bower Olmstead connection comes in. With Meyer, W Bower was older and more experienced. Although in the end Meyer has developed into an elite setter for Long Beach, who was able to beat Texas this past season. I can see W Bower being given first dibs with her being there and in the system prior to Meyer. But, A Bower and Damuni just doesn't make sense until it actually does?  ? |
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Post by pelagius on May 15, 2024 23:12:07 GMT -5
As far as the transfer portal, I don't know the background on that because the other girls who went on missions did not enter the portal... or did they? I am not sure. Allie Hakes didn't enter the portal before her mission. She only wanted to play for BYU. Callahan didn't enter the portal either. I assume she plans to return to BYU. It certainly was reported on here that Rachel Jepsen is in the portal. |
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vvv
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Post by vvv on May 15, 2024 23:30:36 GMT -5
Interesting... So, that must mean that Damuni does want to play where she can actually get play time and although she has strong BYU ties, she would rather open up more options that may be a better fit for her, especially if she sees the writing on the wall at BYU. I didn't realize Rachel Jepsen was in the portal though.
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Post by pelagius on May 15, 2024 23:35:40 GMT -5
Interesting... So, that must mean that Damuni does want to play where she can actually get play time and although she has strong BYU ties, she would rather open up more options that may be a better fit for her, especially if she sees the writing on the wall at BYU. I didn't realize Rachel Jepsen was in the portal though. Pitt thread: volleytalk.proboards.com/post/3865259/thread |
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Post by azvb on May 16, 2024 11:01:09 GMT -5
I don't think Eden Bower is that good either, but the fact is that Stowell or anyone else not named Livingston wasn't consistent enough last year to win the job permanently. If they were, then Eden wouldn't get more chances. It's too bad Little got hurt because I think she probably would have been able to do it if she stayed healthy. As for Whitney Bower, we can debate just how good she was, but what isn't debatable is that she was the best setter on the roster. As such, she deserved to play. Period. And what isn't debatable is that other coaches (i.e. not Olmstead) thought highly enough of her to give her those awards, draft her in the second round, and keep her on the roster. Again, the oldest Bower barely played in her last two seasons because she wasn't good enough. And Livingston was a walk-on originally, but she was good enough that she became a permanent starter and was never remotely threatened by E. Bower, lol. I also think it's bizarre to act like setting was a major issue for BYU when they've had good setters for eight straight seasons between Lyndie Haddock-Eppich (another walk-on) and Whitney Bower. Even the year where Bower got hurt, the backup played pretty well in her place. There's plenty to be critical of in recent seasons, but most of it is with the passing. It remains to be seen with Alex Bower, but that's a position BYU has a good track record with recently. Forgive me if I want to see how she actually does in real matches before engaging in tinfoil conspiracy speculation with no real evidence. And if it's true that Damuni is going on a mission (which I've seen reported here and elsewhere), then she wouldn't be available for the next two seasons anyway. I miss LHE 😢 |
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vvv
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Post by vvv on May 16, 2024 12:26:25 GMT -5
Did LHE ever go pro? She was so good.
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