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Post by c4ndlelight on May 9, 2024 12:38:24 GMT -5
The question has always been which of these leagues can survive... (or either...) If I am a PVF owner, I am positioning myself to become part of LOVB right now... The next step is for LOVB to get players from Europe that are in their prime (Haak, Vargas, etc....). They currently are in a bit of the MLS mode of getting players past their best days.. As an ESPN+ subscriber, I am excited to see this model come to pass.. Whatever the ESPN deal is, I doubt it's enough to pay Haak/Vargas/Bosko's salaries and have anything left over.
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Post by volleyguy on May 9, 2024 12:47:00 GMT -5
PVF would need to cut a broadcast deal with a competitor, which is difficult, but not impossible. Without a deal, PVF is ripe for some type of merger or acquisition, and they would be smart to do it at that point. Why would LOVB be interested? PVF doesn't have any franchises that would be attractive (and would that even work with the LOVB juniors model?) - no players/coaches signed to long-term contracts period (much less any that LOVB would want), no facilities owned that I'm aware of, minimal brand equity. On a league level, what assets, IP, or personnel would LOVB be interested in? No worthwhile media deals, no management/operations folks who are shining, the trademarks need to go into the dumpster. What's the value add? They don't even need to do it to kill a competitor - LOVB isn't threatened by PVF, and it's not diluting them in any way. I don't see how it would be smart for LOVB to buy/merge or spend any money on this. At best, maybe they'd let some PVF owners invest if they were interested and buy a franchise when LOVB's original investors are looking for exits. I still think that US audiences will favor a traditional league rivalry, which PVF has already. With the current model LOVB has, is ESPN going to televise just one of the 3 or 4 weekend matches that are taking place? Will they pick the "right" one, etc? I do't think this model survives intact, and PVf cold give them an eased entry (and consolidate the Omaha market, which is the biggie). PVF owners are in a position of having to fork out a lot more money to survive/compete, or look for whatever ROI they can get to alleviate their losses.
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Post by avid 2.0 on May 9, 2024 12:47:24 GMT -5
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Post by c4ndlelight on May 9, 2024 12:51:41 GMT -5
Why would LOVB be interested? PVF doesn't have any franchises that would be attractive (and would that even work with the LOVB juniors model?) - no players/coaches signed to long-term contracts period (much less any that LOVB would want), no facilities owned that I'm aware of, minimal brand equity. On a league level, what assets, IP, or personnel would LOVB be interested in? No worthwhile media deals, no management/operations folks who are shining, the trademarks need to go into the dumpster. What's the value add? They don't even need to do it to kill a competitor - LOVB isn't threatened by PVF, and it's not diluting them in any way. I don't see how it would be smart for LOVB to buy/merge or spend any money on this. At best, maybe they'd let some PVF owners invest if they were interested and buy a franchise when LOVB's original investors are looking for exits. I still think that US audiences will favor a traditional league rivalry, which PVF has already. With the current model LOVB has, is ESPN going to televise just one of the 3 or 4 weekend matches that are taking place? Will they pick the "right" one, etc? I do't think this model survives intact, and PVf cold give them an eased entry (and consolidate the Omaha market, which is the biggie). PVF owners are in a position of having to fork out a lot more money to survive/compete, or look for whatever ROI they can get to alleviate their losses. LOVB doesn't need to buy PVF to get that model. They just need to change their schedule in Year 2. They're already tied to markets, and pretty good ones for volleyball. I don't think an Omaha team with Jordan Larson and JWO is worried about their market position, when they're on ESPN and the other is CBS Sports Network. Yeah, PVF owners have a dire outlook right now (their only real hope is that LOVB is a financial house of cards that's bleeding through all the cash raised - which is possible but they have their steady junior club revenue which will make getting financing much easier for them than for PVF). I'm sure PVF owners looking for some ROI. That doesn't mean LOVB would be smart to give them any.
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Post by volleyguy on May 9, 2024 12:54:24 GMT -5
I still think that US audiences will favor a traditional league rivalry, which PVF has already. With the current model LOVB has, is ESPN going to televise just one of the 3 or 4 weekend matches that are taking place? Will they pick the "right" one, etc? I do't think this model survives intact, and PVf cold give them an eased entry (and consolidate the Omaha market, which is the biggie). PVF owners are in a position of having to fork out a lot more money to survive/compete, or look for whatever ROI they can get to alleviate their losses. LOVB doesn't need to buy PVF to get that model. They just need to change their schedule in Year 2. They're already tied to markets, and pretty good ones for volleyball. I don't think an Omaha team with Jordan Larson and JWO is worried about their market position, when they're on ESPN and the other is CBS Sports Network. Yeah, PVF owners have a dire outlook right now (their only real hope is that LOVB is a financial house of cards that's bleeding through all the cash raised - which is possible but they have their steady junior club revenue which will make getting financing much easier for them than for PVF). I'm sure PVF owners looking for some ROI. That doesn't mean LOVB would be smart to give them any. Maybe or maybe not. Absorbing a failed competitor at a basement bargain price is a proven and efficient expansion method.
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Post by genisvel on May 9, 2024 13:04:52 GMT -5
Maybe or maybe not. Absorbing a failed competitor at a basement bargain price is a proven and efficient expansion method. But, it's not just acquiring the PVF franchise, is it? They either have to already own a club in the same market or, aquire both the franchise AND securing a buy-out of a local club. Like I've said all along, I don't think a merger can logistically happen. The PVF franchises will just shutter.
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Post by n00b on May 9, 2024 13:06:30 GMT -5
I still think that US audiences will favor a traditional league rivalry, which PVF has already. With the current model LOVB has, is ESPN going to televise just one of the 3 or 4 weekend matches that are taking place? Will they pick the "right" one, etc? I do't think this model survives intact, and PVf cold give them an eased entry (and consolidate the Omaha market, which is the biggie). PVF owners are in a position of having to fork out a lot more money to survive/compete, or look for whatever ROI they can get to alleviate their losses. LOVB doesn't need to buy PVF to get that model. They just need to change their schedule in Year 2. They're already tied to markets, and pretty good ones for volleyball. I don't think an Omaha team with Jordan Larson and JWO is worried about their market position, when they're on ESPN and the other is CBS Sports Network. Yeah, PVF owners have a dire outlook right now (their only real hope is that LOVB is a financial house of cards that's bleeding through all the cash raised - which is possible but they have their steady junior club revenue which will make getting financing much easier for them than for PVF). I'm sure PVF owners looking for some ROI. That doesn't mean LOVB would be smart to give them any. But LOVB also has pretty limited home matches. If I’m doing the math correctly… 14 weeks. 1 week is the in season tournament in KC and 1 week is the playoffs. So 12 weeks of regular season, and during that time each team will play 2 midweek home matches and 2 Fri-Sat home weekends, right? So only six home games?
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Post by c4ndlelight on May 9, 2024 13:26:18 GMT -5
LOVB doesn't need to buy PVF to get that model. They just need to change their schedule in Year 2. They're already tied to markets, and pretty good ones for volleyball. I don't think an Omaha team with Jordan Larson and JWO is worried about their market position, when they're on ESPN and the other is CBS Sports Network. Yeah, PVF owners have a dire outlook right now (their only real hope is that LOVB is a financial house of cards that's bleeding through all the cash raised - which is possible but they have their steady junior club revenue which will make getting financing much easier for them than for PVF). I'm sure PVF owners looking for some ROI. That doesn't mean LOVB would be smart to give them any. But LOVB also has pretty limited home matches. If I’m doing the math correctly… 14 weeks. 1 week is the in season tournament in KC and 1 week is the playoffs. So 12 weeks of regular season, and during that time each team will play 2 midweek home matches and 2 Fri-Sat home weekends, right? So only six home games? Yes. LOVB has chosen not to have that many home matches. If they want to change that, they don't need to buy PVF to do it. And Supernovas playing 12 home matches versus 6 for LOVB Omaha is not going to be that imapctful, especially with how the leagues are stacking up against each other in terms of star power, quality, media distribution, etc. Look at what NFL teams have done with 8 home games.
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Post by GoGophs on May 9, 2024 13:48:04 GMT -5
Well done LOVB 👏👏👏 that’s huge.
(Still can’t stand the name though)
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Post by n00b on May 9, 2024 14:03:34 GMT -5
But LOVB also has pretty limited home matches. If I’m doing the math correctly… 14 weeks. 1 week is the in season tournament in KC and 1 week is the playoffs. So 12 weeks of regular season, and during that time each team will play 2 midweek home matches and 2 Fri-Sat home weekends, right? So only six home games? Yes. LOVB has chosen not to have that many home matches. If they want to change that, they don't need to buy PVF to do it. And Supernovas playing 12 home matches versus 6 for LOVB Omaha is not going to be that imapctful, especially with how the leagues are stacking up against each other in terms of star power, quality, media distribution, etc. Look at what NFL teams have done with 8 home games. Just depends on how important you think locals being able to see your team is. Between Omaha’s home weekends, they will go 5 weeks in which they will play a single home match - on a weeknight. I don’t really know what to think at this point. I really like what PVF has done in terms of match production. I think attendance has been good (some places better than others), so they’re reaching the local community. But PVF fell flat on a TV/streaming deal and LOVB clearly landed the tier A athletes. The biggest hurdle for me to get on board with LOVB in season 1 is the non-competitive nature of everything they’re doing. The league dividing up even teams. All six teams make the playoffs. Neutral site matches. It just seems like an exhibition tour to me. And I don’t find that particularly interesting. That was slightly off topic but I think there is a significant Supernovas fan base that actually attends matches that matters. 10,000 fans attending 6 extra matches playing $20 per ticket is not an insignificant amount of money.
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Post by spideas on May 9, 2024 14:06:12 GMT -5
The question has always been which of these leagues can survive... (or either...) If I am a PVF owner, I am positioning myself to become part of LOVB right now... The next step is for LOVB to get players from Europe that are in their prime (Haak, Vargas, etc....). They currently are in a bit of the MLS mode of getting players past their best days.. As an ESPN+ subscriber, I am excited to see this model come to pass.. what are some PVF players that might want to consider transferring hypothetically Chausee has been rumored to LOVB Madison. Names I would want to see based on play this season: Lazareva, Hentz, Edmonds, Kipp, Cooper, Brown, Stone, Tomkom, TTA, McCage, Nunaviller... There are others but those are the ones that come to mind...
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Post by volleyguy on May 9, 2024 14:11:13 GMT -5
Maybe or maybe not. Absorbing a failed competitor at a basement bargain price is a proven and efficient expansion method. But, it's not just acquiring the PVF franchise, is it? They either have to already own a club in the same market or, aquire both the franchise AND securing a buy-out of a local club. Like I've said all along, I don't think a merger can logistically happen. The PVF franchises will just shutter. They could just as easily work the other way around. In Vegas, for example, the Thrill President ran one of the largest clubs on the area for a long time. That could be his project.
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Post by genisvel on May 9, 2024 14:17:12 GMT -5
But, it's not just acquiring the PVF franchise, is it? They either have to already own a club in the same market or, aquire both the franchise AND securing a buy-out of a local club. Like I've said all along, I don't think a merger can logistically happen. The PVF franchises will just shutter. They could just as easily work the other way around. In Vegas, for example, the Thrill President ran one of the largest clubs on the area for a long time. That could be his project. That will depend on PVF sticking around long enough for LOVB to adopt the franchise model. His only option right now will be to allow LOVB to totally buy him out and allow him a share (it would be a pretty small share at this point considering the number of venture capitalists yet have signed) in the company. I'm not sure keeping the club and using the failed pro-franchise as a write-off wouldn't be more financially beneficial.
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Post by uofaGRAD on May 9, 2024 14:17:15 GMT -5
Well done LOVB 👏👏👏 that’s huge. (Still can’t stand the name though) it does make me laugh bc if they want to be called “love”, they could’ve easily gone for LOV. it’s not called the NBBA or NFBL
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Post by GoGophs on May 9, 2024 14:20:59 GMT -5
Well done LOVB 👏👏👏 that’s huge. (Still can’t stand the name though) it does make me laugh bc if they want to be called “love”, they could’ve easily gone for LOV. it’s not called the NBBA or NFBL Amen. The B is what totally throws be off!
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