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Post by wilbur on Feb 12, 2024 16:53:32 GMT -5
Yes they are undefeated, but their biggest win was a #15 UC Santa Barbara. So to me, thatʻs not good enough to be #2 Outside of volleyball, I have zero likes towards for-profit universities lol A UCSB team that has lost 9 out of their last 11 games btw. I honestly don't understand how UCSB nor UCSD (lost 7 of last 8) are still getting votes to stay in the top 20. I agree with this in principal. CI, Daemen, McK, PFW, NJIT, LI all have arguments that they are performing as well as UCSB and UCSD and have the same potential. Personally I think UCSD is near the bottom of those listed and UCSB is near the top based on what I have seen in matched I have watched this year. |
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Post by CoastalVB on Feb 12, 2024 17:26:11 GMT -5
It is so hard to rank only on win-loss record and not consider strength of schedule. GCU is good and should be in the top five. Do we really think they would be favored over Hawaii and UCLA. It's not hate to discuss strength of schedule. They played two teams 15-20. The other seven matches against unranked teams. I root for the MPSF and want them high. However, #2 seems off. Am I the only one. UCLA has played 9 of 12 matches against top 20 teams and 7 out of 12 against top 10 teams. Of course with this schedule you are likely to drop more than others and should move down some. But this is the coach's poll. You lose, you move down., you split with a team ranked above you, you're likely to stay put. I think most coaches rank a team based on results (wins and losses) rather than a team's strength of schedule. Also, if you look closely at UCLA's common opponents with GCU, a criterion that the committee uses. vs UCSD GCU: 76-59 UCLA: 77-60 vs UCSB GCU: 3-1 on the road UCLA: lost in 5 at hom I get the comparison. UCSB is not a good loss. However, you have to play somebody to be at the top. UCLA played and beat Lewis, Loyola, Irvine 2x, Long Beach, Penn State and lost a very close one to Ohio State who has an NPOY candidate in Pasteur. Those are very good teams. If the other top teams played this schedule would that have more losses? Answer: yes. |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Feb 12, 2024 17:43:57 GMT -5
But this is the coach's poll. You lose, you move down., you split with a team ranked above you, you're likely to stay put. I think most coaches rank a team based on results (wins and losses) rather than a team's strength of schedule. Also, if you look closely at UCLA's common opponents with GCU, a criterion that the committee uses. vs UCSD GCU: 76-59 UCLA: 77-60 vs UCSB GCU: 3-1 on the road UCLA: lost in 5 at hom I get the comparison. UCSB is not a good loss. However, you have to play somebody to be at the top. UCLA played and beat Lewis, Loyola, Irvine 2x, Long Beach, Penn State and lost a very close one to Ohio State who has an NPOY candidate in Pasteur. Those are very good teams. If the other top teams played this schedule would that have more losses? Answer: yes. correct answer: don't know UCLA has been inconsistent it's debatable |
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Post by raian13 on Feb 12, 2024 18:05:26 GMT -5
But this is the coach's poll. You lose, you move down., you split with a team ranked above you, you're likely to stay put. I think most coaches rank a team based on results (wins and losses) rather than a team's strength of schedule. Also, if you look closely at UCLA's common opponents with GCU, a criterion that the committee uses. vs UCSD GCU: 76-59 UCLA: 77-60 vs UCSB GCU: 3-1 on the road UCLA: lost in 5 at hom I get the comparison. UCSB is not a good loss. However, you have to play somebody to be at the top. UCLA played and beat Lewis, Loyola, Irvine 2x, Long Beach, Penn State and lost a very close one to Ohio State who has an NPOY candidate in Pasteur. Those are very good teams. If the other top teams played this schedule would that have more losses? Answer: yes. Hawaii just beat down #5 Stanford x2 with 1 loss against now top 10 Loyola. I think that’s more impressive. |
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Post by volleyball3r69 on Feb 12, 2024 18:22:08 GMT -5
I get the comparison. UCSB is not a good loss. However, you have to play somebody to be at the top. UCLA played and beat Lewis, Loyola, Irvine 2x, Long Beach, Penn State and lost a very close one to Ohio State who has an NPOY candidate in Pasteur. Those are very good teams. If the other top teams played this schedule would that have more losses? Answer: yes. Hawaii just beat down #5 Stanford x2 with 1 loss against now top 10 Loyola. I think that’s more impressive. Yes let’s all bow down to Hawaii with their signature wins over… -Stanford without Rottman -A mediocre Ball State team -Loyola at home, at the very beginning of the year, only to immediately lose the next night -Now unranked PFW -Emmanuel Totally more impressive than UCLA splitting with Beach, and only losing twice otherwise both in five sets. |
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Post by mmvb805 on Feb 12, 2024 18:30:36 GMT -5
Hawaii just beat down #5 Stanford x2 with 1 loss against now top 10 Loyola. I think that’s more impressive. Yes let’s all bow down to Hawaii with their signature wins over… -Stanford without Rottman -A mediocre Ball State team -Loyola at home, at the very beginning of the year, only to immediately lose the next night -Now unranked PFW -Emmanuel Totally more impressive than UCLA splitting with Beach, and only losing twice otherwise both in five sets. Absolutely agree. It’s interesting to see if coaches put an asterisk on the wins over Stanford, or if they take the win at face value |
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Post by raian13 on Feb 12, 2024 19:01:12 GMT -5
Hawaii just beat down #5 Stanford x2 with 1 loss against now top 10 Loyola. I think that’s more impressive. Yes let’s all bow down to Hawaii with their signature wins over… -Stanford without Rottman -A mediocre Ball State team -Loyola at home, at the very beginning of the year, only to immediately lose the next night -Now unranked PFW -Emmanuel Totally more impressive than UCLA splitting with Beach, and only losing twice otherwise both in five sets. Hawaii only lost by 2pts in set 5. At least theirs was not a bad loss unlike UCSB. Also Loyola beat Ohio State 15-5 with a healthy Pasteur. 🤭 Also, I doubt Rottman can score 18 points to save the Cards in set 2 on night 2. Rottman would probably make the matches more interesting but I don’t think he could have changed the outcomes. |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Feb 12, 2024 19:25:51 GMT -5
what's interesting is GCU received 5 1st place votes, and still went DOWN in overall points.
Long Beach, GCU, and Hawaii all went down in points, UCLA the only one to go up.
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Post by CoastalVB on Feb 12, 2024 19:53:33 GMT -5
I get the comparison. UCSB is not a good loss. However, you have to play somebody to be at the top. UCLA played and beat Lewis, Loyola, Irvine 2x, Long Beach, Penn State and lost a very close one to Ohio State who has an NPOY candidate in Pasteur. Those are very good teams. If the other top teams played this schedule would that have more losses? Answer: yes. Hawaii just beat down #5 Stanford x2 with 1 loss against now top 10 Loyola. I think that’s more impressive. Yes, more impressive that GCU. If they played UCLA's schedule would the only have 1 loss (Long Beach 2x, Irvine 2x, Ohio State, Penn State, Lewis, Loyola, UCSB...) Maybe they run the table. However, it is likely they would lose one or two of those as well. |
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Post by ManapuaSurprise on Feb 12, 2024 19:54:21 GMT -5
Hawaii just beat down #5 Stanford x2 with 1 loss against now top 10 Loyola. I think that’s more impressive. Yes let’s all bow down to Hawaii with their signature wins over… -Stanford without Rottman -A mediocre Ball State team -Loyola at home, at the very beginning of the year, only to immediately lose the next night -Now unranked PFW -Emmanuel Totally more impressive than UCLA splitting with Beach, and only losing twice otherwise both in five sets. Iʻd prefer Ucla at #2 rather than Grand Canyon |
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Post by CoastalVB on Feb 12, 2024 19:56:06 GMT -5
Yes let’s all bow down to Hawaii with their signature wins over… -Stanford without Rottman -A mediocre Ball State team -Loyola at home, at the very beginning of the year, only to immediately lose the next night -Now unranked PFW -Emmanuel Totally more impressive than UCLA splitting with Beach, and only losing twice otherwise both in five sets. Hawaii only lost by 2pts in set 5. At least theirs was not a bad loss unlike UCSB. Also Loyola beat Ohio State 15-5 with a healthy Pasteur. 🤭 Also, I doubt Rottman can score 18 points to save the Cards in set 2 on night 2. Rottman would probably make the matches more interesting but I don’t think he could have changed the outcomes. We should look at losses. UCSB beating UCLA is a minus for UCLA. However, for some reason we don't look at quality wins. UCLA has the most quality wins in the top five. |
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Post by raian13 on Feb 12, 2024 19:59:02 GMT -5
Hawaii just beat down #5 Stanford x2 with 1 loss against now top 10 Loyola. I think that’s more impressive. Yes, more impressive that GCU. If they played UCLA's schedule would the only have 1 loss (Long Beach 2x, Irvine 2x, Ohio State, Penn State, Lewis, Loyola, UCSB...) Maybe they run the table. However, it is likely they would lose one or two of those as well. But we are not talking about ifs. This is UCLA’s record - 3 losses within 5 weeks. Hawaii only has one. I can also ask the same to you, how would UCLA fare against Stanford? Can they pull off a 25-7 set win? The poll result this week was not a surprise but I would not rank UCLA above Hawaii right now based on record. |
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Post by CoastalVB on Feb 12, 2024 20:15:01 GMT -5
Yes, more impressive that GCU. If they played UCLA's schedule would the only have 1 loss (Long Beach 2x, Irvine 2x, Ohio State, Penn State, Lewis, Loyola, UCSB...) Maybe they run the table. However, it is likely they would lose one or two of those as well. But we are not talking about ifs. This is UCLA’s record - 3 losses within 5 weeks. Hawaii only has one. I can also ask the same to you, how would UCLA fare against Stanford? Can they pull off a 25-7 set win? The poll result this week was not a surprise but I would not rank UCLA above Hawaii right now based on record. Ok. No ifs. Hawaii has a weak schedule. UCLA played top competition. Set wins don't factor into the rankings. Wins, losses, schedule, road and home all count. You want to count UCLA's losses - two of which were to top teams (ohio state and long beach) but you say nothing about your schedule. Let's be balanced. I have mentioned the UCSB loss several times - it is a minus. Is the Hawaii schedule a minus? It should be. |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Feb 12, 2024 20:44:34 GMT -5
But we are not talking about ifs. This is UCLA’s record - 3 losses within 5 weeks. Hawaii only has one. I can also ask the same to you, how would UCLA fare against Stanford? Can they pull off a 25-7 set win? The poll result this week was not a surprise but I would not rank UCLA above Hawaii right now based on record. Ok. No ifs. Hawaii has a weak schedule. UCLA played top competition. Set wins don't factor into the rankings. Wins, losses, schedule, road and home all count. You want to count UCLA's losses - two of which were to top teams (ohio state and long beach) but you say nothing about your schedule. Let's be balanced. I have mentioned the UCSB loss several times - it is a minus. Is the Hawaii schedule a minus? It should be. ahh, maybe can you just provide a formula then? ok, I got it rating = (W-L)) x 5 + 2 x top 5 wins + 1xtop 10 wins - 2 x sub 10 losses + 0.25 x road/neu wins, then divide that entire mess by SOS sortof index = rating Beach 10-1 (91% x 5) + 2x1 + 1 +0.75 -0 / 110% = 7.5/1.0 = about 7.5 ish UCLA 9-3 (75% x 5) +2 x1 + 3x1 - 2 + 0.75 / 7 = about 3.75 + 2 + 3 -2 +0.75 = 7.5 / 0.9 = 8.4 ish Hawaii 9-1 (90% x 5) + 2 x 2 + 0 -2 +0.75 / 20 = 4.5+ 4 +0.75 = 9.25 / 1.1 = 8.6 ish GCU 9-0 (100% x 5) + 0 + 0 -0 + 7x0.25 / 29 = 6.75 / 1.2 = 5.6 ish clearly Hawaii is #1, UCLA #2, Beach #3, and GCU #4 as the quantifiable evaluation is beyond repute |
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Post by ITA/USA on Feb 12, 2024 21:09:24 GMT -5
I am curious to know how people transition from pre season ranking to in season ranking… pre season is all based on potential, end of season is all based on results. At which point of the season the potential value is fully replaced by the result based one? I would say we are not there yet, maybe by the end of February we get there
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