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Post by boysbeachvolleyball on Mar 24, 2024 16:07:00 GMT -5
Fun observation - Based on the 32 teams registered for this weekend’s Houston AVP Next, not a single team in the top 20 is going to leave with any more AVP points than they already have. Roughly, the top 6 seeds could win the event and not improve their points The next 6 seeds could get third and not improve their points. Someone in the bottom half of the brackets would need a 5th in this loaded tournament to scrap out a few points. Even if they updated the 10% bonus from 33 to 32, or added a clause that said - 10% bonus for each - x number of main draw players attending- there is likely no player in the top 16 teams leaving with any positive points. Thoughts? volleyballlife.com/tournament/14299/division/61629/teams |
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Post by stephenasinjin on Mar 25, 2024 6:57:11 GMT -5
Makes a lot of sense to me looking at those teams particularly since there’s a few main draw teams and a few more high qualifier level teams.
Eventually you get to a point where to move up you should need to perform at the predetermined event that’s worth the points aka an avp tournament where you demonstrated you’re superiority over those other teams with similar points or more points. For perspective, the McKibbins who were regularly finishing 13th and 9th almost every tourney made it through all but like 2 qualifiers. Eventually if you’re a main draw guy in a qualifier, your points and seed in the qualifier won’t matter and your points will be determined by your performance against other main draw players in the main draw.
Or if you’re like a mid-qualifier guy you need to demonstrate you belong in consideration with those upper qualifier guys to gain points on those guys…. which this tournament is an opportunity for that. I didn’t read your post as you complaining, but anyone who is complaining isn’t gonna get there anyway so who cares about the “For Life amateur player” who feels like the point system isn’t working for him ya know? (Self proclaimed for life amateur player here- currently have 2,150 points or so).
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Post by maizecrayons on Mar 25, 2024 7:04:17 GMT -5
Taylor Crabb and Troy Field???
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Post by boysbeachvolleyball on Mar 25, 2024 8:46:10 GMT -5
Actually - my observation is that the points in an event like this become irrelevant, compared to main draw or purpose of seeding for this year.
When you say - “Or if you’re like a mid-qualifier guy you need to demonstrate you belong in consideration with those upper qualifier guys to gain points on those guys…. which this tournament is an opportunity for that. “
I agree that the this tournament should deliver those opportunities, but the overall logic of points may need to be re-evaluated to achieve it if we only have three main events every year.
Looking at the overall list of top guys, Maybe Gage and DJ moved up last year, while I still see Lucena and Burik listed, so maybe question the point expiration process as well.
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Post by stephenasinjin on Mar 25, 2024 12:58:19 GMT -5
Actually - my observation is that the points in an event like this become irrelevant, compared to main draw or purpose of seeding for this year. When you say - “Or if you’re like a mid-qualifier guy you need to demonstrate you belong in consideration with those upper qualifier guys to gain points on those guys…. which this tournament is an opportunity for that. “ I agree that the this tournament should deliver those opportunities, but the overall logic of points may need to be re-evaluated to achieve it if we only have three main events every year. Looking at the overall list of top guys, Maybe Gage and DJ moved up last year, while I still see Lucena and Burik listed, so maybe question the point expiration process as well. I’d rather they be irrelevant than overly relevant like in 2022 if my memory serves…. Burik and lucena are likely still listed just because they haven’t renewed their membership with avp or registered for an event - it’s something I’ve noticed with how the avp website is coded. A lot of times those points don’t update until you signup for an event and that event kicks into its registration closed mode. Each of the last 2-3 years at local events in March, seeding has reshuffled from registration because it was showing someone as having like 1400 points from 2+ years ago but when the event was actually “started” on the avp america website their point total updated, seeding reshuffled. If you actually look at how the points are calculated according to the website rather than the listed total, you’ll know that Burik/lucenas points are expired unless they apply for and are granted frozen points. It took a long time for Zaun’s points to disappear from that list as well. |
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Post by boysbeachvolleyball on Apr 1, 2024 10:45:57 GMT -5
To complete the AVP Points observation with two upset examples. Eighth seeded Thomas Hurst and Ian Bicko finished second by defeating both Evan Cory and Wyatt Harrison (5th) and always amazing Taylor Crabb and less than amazing Troy Field (3rd). If they repeated this three more times at 32 team AVP Next Big money events, Thomas would have less points than he has now. 627x4 = 2508 < 2555 and he remains an impossible to close 1150 points behind Evan and 1300 points behind Troy. Again, just pointing out that the points really don’t reflect actual player vs player seeding / quality when you have a huge separation between the three main events a year and the rest of the competitions between the same athletes.
There was one individual who actually bumped in the overall rankings at Houston AVP Next, as Lennart and Alex were seeded 24 due to Alex’s low points and his 511 points for 7th boosts his average of 1282 (but the increase is only because he has not been playing lately and did not have four valid events).
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Post by blackmambabeto on Apr 1, 2024 11:49:26 GMT -5
To complete the AVP Points observation with two upset examples. Eighth seeded Thomas Hurst and Ian Bicko finished second by defeating both Evan Cory and Wyatt Harrison (5th) and always amazing Taylor Crabb and less than amazing Troy Field (3rd). If they repeated this three more times at 32 team AVP Next Big money events, Thomas would have less points than he has now. 627x4 = 2508 < 2555 and he remains an impossible to close 1150 points behind Evan and 1300 points behind Troy. Again, just pointing out that the points really don’t reflect actual player vs player seeding / quality when you have a huge separation between the three main events a year and the rest of the competitions between the same athletes. There was one individual who actually bumped in the overall rankings at Houston AVP Next, as Lennart and Alex were seeded 24 due to Alex’s low points and his 511 points for 7th boosts his average of 1282 (but the increase is only because he has not been playing lately and did not have four valid events). |
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Post by stephenasinjin on Apr 1, 2024 13:59:08 GMT -5
boysbeachvolleyball your point feels invalid to me simply because they have the tour series tournaments which provide bids to the pro series. The tour series is the predetermined event I was describing as “you must perform at this event” not avpnexts. Or at an on-site qualifier. This avpnext event is 2 levels below a pro series event. The points received shouldn’t hold sway at the pro series level. Additionally, you mention that the avpnext event doesn’t increase anyone’s points for winning…. That’s because better finishes haven’t expired, but once they do by June and/or once their points are calculated by a pro window vs. amateur point window, their points won’t drop but others’ will. Jeremy casebeers points don’t keep increasing for finishing 5th-9th each year, why should any of these players’ points increase for similar finishes at avpnexts?
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Post by blackmambabeto on Apr 1, 2024 16:56:08 GMT -5
boysbeachvolleyball your point feels invalid to me simply because they have the tour series tournaments which provide bids to the pro series. The tour series is the predetermined event I was describing as “you must perform at this event” not avpnexts. Or at an on-site qualifier. This avpnext event is 2 levels below a pro series event. The points received shouldn’t hold sway at the pro series level. Additionally, you mention that the avpnext event doesn’t increase anyone’s points for winning…. That’s because better finishes haven’t expired, but once they do by June and/or once their points are calculated by a pro window vs. amateur point window, their points won’t drop but others’ will. Jeremy casebeers points don’t keep increasing for finishing 5th-9th each year, why should any of these players’ points increase for similar finishes at avpnexts? |
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Post by stephenasinjin on Apr 2, 2024 10:58:09 GMT -5
boysbeachvolleyball your point feels invalid to me simply because they have the tour series tournaments which provide bids to the pro series. The tour series is the predetermined event I was describing as “you must perform at this event” not avpnexts. Or at an on-site qualifier. This avpnext event is 2 levels below a pro series event. The points received shouldn’t hold sway at the pro series level. Additionally, you mention that the avpnext event doesn’t increase anyone’s points for winning…. That’s because better finishes haven’t expired, but once they do by June and/or once their points are calculated by a pro window vs. amateur point window, their points won’t drop but others’ will. Jeremy casebeers points don’t keep increasing for finishing 5th-9th each year, why should any of these players’ points increase for similar finishes at avpnexts? Whatever they changed it to that was formerly tour and pro series. You’re doing great work. |
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