bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016) All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team 2023
Posts: 13,306 
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Post by bluepenquin on May 28, 2024 13:27:13 GMT -5
I don't specifically know - but my understanding, each conference gets revenue from the NCAA for teams making the tournament and then more if they win or advance to a certain spot(s). Since every conference automatically has a participant, they all get some money from the NCAA. I don't think each conference has to split this money equally to each university in the conference, but I think most due. It is my understanding that a portion of the payout/revenue to the conference will be withheld over the next 10 years in order to pay back the past. I don't know if any school that leaves D1 will be liable for revenue reductions? If a school drops down, it won't get D1 payouts anymore and the payout they'd get as a D2/D3 would be MUCH less. So I would imagine they'd get the same payout as their D2/D3 conferencemates. Yes - but will they get the same revenue reduction from the NCAA as if they were still in D1. If not - then that money would have to be absorbed somewhere else. If so - then it would become more costly to drop down from D1. |
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Post by n00b on May 28, 2024 13:39:13 GMT -5
There is a strong incentive for most D1 schools to stay D1 in terms of Men's basketball. The tournament is guaranteed to be around for at least 10 more years (life of the back pay settlement) - and that tournament is going to be filled with a lot of non p4 schools. No P4 school will shrink anything close to 3 men and 4 women sports. How much money does each DI school get just for being DI, from the NCAA (which means shared revenue from the massive March Madness TV contract)? Is there any that’s automatic? Or do you only get some if you win MM games? Here's the full revenue distribution document. ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/ncaa/finance/d1/2023D1Fin_RevenueDistributionPlan.pdf$170M Basketball Performance Fund - distributed to conferences over six years $149M Grants-in-Aid Fund - more scholarships awarded, more money received. $76M Sports Sponsorship Fund - get one unit per sport sponsored, beginning with the 14th sport $69M Student Athlete Opportunity Fund - based on scholarships and number of sports $55M Equal Conference Fund - self-explanatory $50M Academic Enhancement Fund - Divided equally between all D1 schools $40M Academic Performance Fund - Divided equally between all D1 schools that hit a specific academic benchmark $19M Special Assistance Fund - based on Pell Grants, scholarships and number of sports $10M Conference Grants - evenly divided between conferences Regarding the basketball payouts, it's games played, not won. So if your team loses in the opening round, the conference gets 1 share. If they win twice then lose in the sweet 16, the conference gets 3 shares. |
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Post by vbnerd on May 28, 2024 14:02:00 GMT -5
Well the minimum as it stands is 16 sports for and FBS school, 14 for the rest of D1, and that is 7 men's and 7 women's or 6 men's and 8 women's sports. There is also a requirement that I think 6 are team sports. Not that all of that cannot be changed, but cutting to 3 and 4 sports would be a pretty big change. True. But we likely are looking at "pretty big changes" to the entire system. I'm just saying that I wouldn't confidently want to state what will and will not happen as a result of all this. Not yet, anyway. Oh, as I've said a few times here, nobody knows anything yet. But in a world of things that we don't know, I would be surprised if they opt to justify Athletic Departments Inc to play one sport per gender per season. |
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Post by vbnerd on May 28, 2024 14:12:29 GMT -5
I don't specifically know - but my understanding, each conference gets revenue from the NCAA for teams making the tournament and then more if they win or advance to a certain spot(s). Since every conference automatically has a participant, they all get some money from the NCAA. I don't think each conference has to split this money equally to each university in the conference, but I think most due. It is my understanding that a portion of the payout/revenue to the conference will be withheld over the next 10 years in order to pay back the past. I don't know if any school that leaves D1 will be liable for revenue reductions? If a school drops down, it won't get D1 payouts anymore and the payout they'd get as a D2/D3 would be MUCH less. So I would imagine they'd get the same payout as their D2/D3 conferencemates. I actually wondered this. I mean, Oakland or St. Peters gets their share for 7 years, they pool it with their conference so they still get money in the down years. I got the impression that it was conference rules/votes that dictated where Texas' shares go after they leave the Big XII and what happens to the Pac 12 schools when they leave, not NCAA rules. So is there a conference out there that would let a team go independent and keep the money it earned in tournament shares for the remainder of their 7 years? If so, could they drop to D2 and still get their money? Could they go NAIA or drop sports and still collect? If Florida Atlantic folds up shop except for golf and beach volleyball as an independent for the next 6 years, could they keep cashing checks? What if you get thrown out of a conference? Could you keep the shares you earned then? I have no idea, but I'm sure some there are lawyers who would find out for you! |
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Post by Phaedrus on May 28, 2024 14:56:39 GMT -5
If a school drops down, it won't get D1 payouts anymore and the payout they'd get as a D2/D3 would be MUCH less. So I would imagine they'd get the same payout as their D2/D3 conferencemates. I actually wondered this. I mean, Oakland or St. Peters gets their share for 7 years, they pool it with their conference so they still get money in the down years. I got the impression that it was conference rules/votes that dictated where Texas' shares go after they leave the Big XII and what happens to the Pac 12 schools when they leave, not NCAA rules. So is there a conference out there that would let a team go independent and keep the money it earned in tournament shares for the remainder of their 7 years? If so, could they drop to D2 and still get their money? Could they go NAIA or drop sports and still collect? If Florida Atlantic folds up shop except for golf and beach volleyball as an independent for the next 6 years, could they keep cashing checks? What if you get thrown out of a conference? Could you keep the shares you earned then? I have no idea, but I'm sure some there are lawyers who would find out for you! True to the VT nature, this is all conjecture and guessing. This is what we are do. In the mean time, the agreement has not fleshed out any details for any division, conference, or teams. The lawyers will indeed jump in with both feet, creating new rules and twisting the framework of the agreement until it suits their and their customer's needs. The only things that we are sure of it that the framework is too loose to specifically dictate any situation; there will be mass confusion and creative interpretations and manufacturing of new structures to fill in the gaps; there will be massive amounts of unintended consequences to deal with; and anyone that survives will have to be really lucky. In solving any kind of optimization problem, under constrained is usually worse than over constrained. We are severely under constrained. |
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Post by vbnerd on May 28, 2024 22:11:31 GMT -5
I actually wondered this. I mean, Oakland or St. Peters gets their share for 7 years, they pool it with their conference so they still get money in the down years. I got the impression that it was conference rules/votes that dictated where Texas' shares go after they leave the Big XII and what happens to the Pac 12 schools when they leave, not NCAA rules. So is there a conference out there that would let a team go independent and keep the money it earned in tournament shares for the remainder of their 7 years? If so, could they drop to D2 and still get their money? Could they go NAIA or drop sports and still collect? If Florida Atlantic folds up shop except for golf and beach volleyball as an independent for the next 6 years, could they keep cashing checks? What if you get thrown out of a conference? Could you keep the shares you earned then? I have no idea, but I'm sure some there are lawyers who would find out for you! True to the VT nature, this is all conjecture and guessing. This is what we are do. In the mean time, the agreement has not fleshed out any details for any division, conference, or teams. The lawyers will indeed jump in with both feet, creating new rules and twisting the framework of the agreement until it suits their and their customer's needs. The only things that we are sure of it that the framework is too loose to specifically dictate any situation; there will be mass confusion and creative interpretations and manufacturing of new structures to fill in the gaps; there will be massive amounts of unintended consequences to deal with; and anyone that survives will have to be really lucky. In solving any kind of optimization problem, under constrained is usually worse than over constrained. We are severely under constrained. To be clear, NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING for this entire thread, and it's page 19.  The NCAA hasn't figured it out yet. All we can do is guess. An article on the SEC meeting said they likely won't have the roster caps figured out until fall, but then Swimswam says the SEC is proposing caps of 22 for men's swimming, and 35 for women's swimming. It's going to be silly for a while. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2024 1:01:34 GMT -5
Much is known now.
Just have to find out what the roster limit will be and what amount the money will be paid.
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bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016) All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team 2023
Posts: 13,306
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Post by bluepenquin on May 29, 2024 8:26:31 GMT -5
Title IX created some nasty unintended consequences. Yet, college sports moved on and got better.
Conference realignments, college playoffs, NIL, etc... - has created some bad consequences - yet college sports have continued to move on and get better.
Of course, we don't know much of the details from this settlement - or what exactly will happen with college sports and specifically with women's college volleyball. I am sure there will be some unintended consequences - but history has shown things get better - which is my expectation here.
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Post by mplsgopher on May 29, 2024 8:30:56 GMT -5
If a school drops down, it won't get D1 payouts anymore and the payout they'd get as a D2/D3 would be MUCH less. So I would imagine they'd get the same payout as their D2/D3 conferencemates. I actually wondered this. I mean, Oakland or St. Peters gets their share for 7 years, they pool it with their conference so they still get money in the down years. I got the impression that it was conference rules/votes that dictated where Texas' shares go after they leave the Big XII and what happens to the Pac 12 schools when they leave, not NCAA rules. So is there a conference out there that would let a team go independent and keep the money it earned in tournament shares for the remainder of their 7 years? If so, could they drop to D2 and still get their money? Could they go NAIA or drop sports and still collect? If Florida Atlantic folds up shop except for golf and beach volleyball as an independent for the next 6 years, could they keep cashing checks? What if you get thrown out of a conference? Could you keep the shares you earned then? I have no idea, but I'm sure some there are lawyers who would find out for you! I think the NCAA sends the money to the conference and that’s that. It’s the conference’s money. Most probably have bylaws that if you leave the conf for any reason you no longer are entitled to a share of conf revenue distributions. |
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Post by hangonsloopy on May 29, 2024 8:35:52 GMT -5
Club teams still hire coaches, sometimes, but probably not for full-time salaries. A significant reduction in college sports opportunities is going to seriously hurt the youth sports industrial complex. The competition for college spots is a primary motivator of the inflation of the insane club VB costs and expenses. I was thinking about the potential trickle down effect of this on the whole system. A lot of people treat club volleyball as an investment in their child’s future. Pay now to save more in college. If that isn’t the case anymore, the whole ecosystem will be affected. |
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Post by mplsgopher on May 29, 2024 9:06:56 GMT -5
Would love to see in a new federal law that donations to universities for the purpose of athletes payments grant no tax privileges/benefits to the donors. Just absurd. Guessing southern states would get that provision killed.
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Post by vbnerd on May 29, 2024 11:13:05 GMT -5
Much is known now. Just have to find out what the roster limit will be and what amount the money will be paid. I think "Just" is doing a lot of work there. From the SEC meetings, it sounds like the roster limits won't be set until fall/winter and the coaches need to adapt their rosters by the following fall. Portal be poppin! It might take a few years for schools/conferences to figure out what sports are worth cutting and worth keeping, and what sports they want to emphasize or deemphasize (tier 1, 2, etc), but that should all get worked out. The second part is stickier. How much money will be paid and TO WHOM? whether they pay the most valuable athletes, in the spirit of the lawsuit, or pay men and women equitably in the spirit of title IX, or some middle strategy, it sounds like we can expect a bunch of schools to get sued. I'd like to think the courts rule and we could move on, but my guess is that politicians, lawyers, and sports media looking for content will keep this ball in the air for years to come. What do players, coaches, collectives, schools, and conferences do in the meantime as it all unfolds? Maybe I'm looking at the glass as half empty but I'd I think there is a lot that we don't know. |
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Post by noblesol on May 29, 2024 13:24:40 GMT -5
Here's the NCAA 'vision', offered by the NCAA President back in December: www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/ncaa-president-wants-colleges-directly-pay-student-athletes-rcna128213"Baker’s proposal is aimed at creating a new subdivision, covering all sports, where the richest athletic departments in the so-called Power Five conferences — the Big Ten, Southeastern Conference, Big 12, Atlantic Coast Conference and Pac-12 — can operate differently than the rest." * In summation, the richest in 'Tier 1' would with NCAA approval operate differently from the rest because, well, they can afford to, and it's time to recognize the obvious and codify it. "Baker noted athletic budgets in Division I range from $5 million and $250 million annually, with 59 schools spending over $100 million annually and another 32 spending over $50 million. He said 259 Division I schools, however, spend less than $50 million on their athletic programs." * 59 schools out of ~ 350 schools, or ~ 17% of Div 1 might qualify to be considered for 'Tier 1' strata. "“I am 100% supportive of your efforts. Intercollegiate Athletics needs the proactive and forward thinking you are providing,” Ohio State athletic director Gene Smith said in a post on social media platform X. Smith oversees one of the largest athletic departments in the country with operating expenses of above $225 million annually." * Ohio St. 100% wants to be Tier 1 and 'operate differently'. Curious if they see advantages for other schools in not being in 'Tier 1'. "A new D-I subdivision should also allow members to create rules unique rules regarding “scholarship commitment and roster size, recruitment, transfers or NIL,” he said." * If you can afford to be 'Tier 1" you can create your own rules for recruitment, transfers, NIL, scholarships, and roster size! Neato if Tier 1. For the rest, either find a pot of money and move up, or realize your Div 1 experience for your athletes and fans will be seriously different from Tier 1 athletes and fans. |
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Post by n00b on May 29, 2024 13:52:01 GMT -5
or realize your Div 1 experience for your athletes and fans will be seriously different from Tier 1 athletes and fans. This is already true. Doesn’t really matter if there is a new defined Tier 1 or not. |
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Post by vbnerd on Jun 4, 2024 22:51:47 GMT -5
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