|
|
Post by slxpress on Jun 9, 2024 14:26:25 GMT -5
They're already paying the players through NIL The big issue I see with the logic you're using to support your view on things is this here. I think you want this to carry vastly more water than it does. Even when it's the University of Minnesota cutting a check to a volleyball player (for the right to use her NIL), instead of Dinkytown Athletics (that's our "collective", a non-profit 501c charity if I ever saw one!!) ... that's still not paying a player. Paying a player means legal employment with a proper salary. That is not that. Not getting in the middle of this discussion, but I do want to point out Dinkytown Athletics have made it transparent from the get go they’re a for profit enterprise. |
|
|
|
Post by vbnerd on Jun 9, 2024 21:19:40 GMT -5
The big issue I see with the logic you're using to support your view on things is this here. I think you want this to carry vastly more water than it does. Even when it's the University of Minnesota cutting a check to a volleyball player (for the right to use her NIL), instead of Dinkytown Athletics (that's our "collective", a non-profit 501c charity if I ever saw one!!) ... that's still not paying a player. Paying a player means legal employment with a proper salary. That is not that. Agents of the universities (coaches) are directing annual payments to athletes in exchange for playing on the team. That is what is currently happening in college athletics. They're already employees, just without the rights and legal protections afforded to employees. I think I have this right...If any agents of a university were directing payments prior to February when Virginia and Tennessee filed for their injunction, it was an NCAA violation. No? So even under your definition, we are going to start the first semester of an actual above-water employment model. |
|
|
|
Post by mplsgopher on Jun 9, 2024 21:25:18 GMT -5
The big issue I see with the logic you're using to support your view on things is this here. I think you want this to carry vastly more water than it does. Even when it's the University of Minnesota cutting a check to a volleyball player (for the right to use her NIL), instead of Dinkytown Athletics (that's our "collective", a non-profit 501c charity if I ever saw one!!) ... that's still not paying a player. Paying a player means legal employment with a proper salary. That is not that. Not getting in the middle of this discussion, but I do want to point out Dinkytown Athletics have made it transparent from the get go they’re a for profit enterprise. Thanks for the correction. I believe (some) other collectives are registered as 501c so as to provide tax deductions for their donors. DA says they will transfer to that model, if their legal advice changes.
Our organization is structured as an LLC based on the advice of legal experts, given its purpose and goals . Given this structure, memberships are not tax deductible nor considered a charitable donation. We recognize the importance of accommodating charitable giving and we have registered a 501c3 organization in the event our advice from legal experts changes. |
|
|
|
Post by mplsgopher on Jun 9, 2024 21:25:54 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by mplsgopher on Jun 9, 2024 21:31:35 GMT -5
I’m rooting against it being ruled true. I’m rooting for new law, in this special scenario. Why. To preserve the unique circumstance that college athletics has to be able to command large TV viewership from casual viewers.
Such viewers are where you get the really large audiences and drive the really large value. Not just from the fanbases tuning in.
We know that minor professional leagues can do reasonably well in gate at the stadium, but have abysmal TV ratings.
Would legal employment just for schools that are paying athletes for their NIL, and keeping all other requirements intact (have to be a student at the school, making progress towards a degree, and have a strict time window of eligibility), actually kill that golden goose? No one knows for sure. But it seems an unnecessary risk.
If we're talking about Dartmouth level, universal legal employment for college athletes at all levels ... then that's just a hard no.
|
|
|
|
Post by mikegarrison on Jun 9, 2024 22:11:18 GMT -5
Anyone who thinks that the current US Congress is going to get together in a bipartisan way and pass some sort of landmark legislation that magically returns college athletics to what it was 40-50 years ago is just not paying the least bit of attention to reality.
|
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Jun 9, 2024 22:58:50 GMT -5
Anyone who thinks that the current US Congress is going to get together in a bipartisan way and pass some sort of landmark legislation that magically returns college athletics to what it was 40-50 years ago is just not paying the least bit of attention to reality. I agree. But that's not what I'm hoping for out of Congress. I'm hoping for a federal law that allows for a level playing field instead of Alabama being governed by Alabama law and Ohio State being governed by Ohio laws that might be very different. That doesn't require returning college sports to what it was decades ago. |
|
|
|
Post by slxpress on Jun 9, 2024 23:02:58 GMT -5
Anyone who thinks that the current US Congress is going to get together in a bipartisan way and pass some sort of landmark legislation that magically returns college athletics to what it was 40-50 years ago is just not paying the least bit of attention to reality. Not just the current congress, but it’s hard to imagine any congress in the near future. I will say that if one party has both houses and the presidency, then there’s a chance. But I have to say I’m actively rooting against that. As bad as the dysfunction is right now I don’t want to see what the country will be like if one side or the other is basically able to pass their agenda unfettered. So I’m hoping for continued deadlock, even if that means college athletics continues to roil from one court decision to another. |
|
bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016) All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team 2023
Posts: 13,193 
|
Post by bluepenquin on Jun 10, 2024 8:22:14 GMT -5
Anyone who thinks that the current US Congress is going to get together in a bipartisan way and pass some sort of landmark legislation that magically returns college athletics to what it was 40-50 years ago is just not paying the least bit of attention to reality. Not just the current congress, but it’s hard to imagine any congress in the near future. I will say that if one party has both houses and the presidency, then there’s a chance. But I have to say I’m actively rooting against that. As bad as the dysfunction is right now I don’t want to see what the country will be like if one side or the other is basically able to pass their agenda unfettered. So I’m hoping for continued deadlock, even if that means college athletics continues to roil from one court decision to another. Would this even be a political issue in that Republicans and Democrats couldn't agree on? I don't know that there are political lines of disagreement here that would be too large for a bipartisan agreement. I also don't think a bipartisan agreement on this issue would create some kind of political backlash from the extremes in either party. This is an issue that wouldn't be in either party's platform (if those were to exist anymore). I am not talking about returning to college sports 40-50 years ago (that cat is long out of the bag). And I am not even suggesting that an agreement in this or any kind of congress would be an improvement - but I do think in theory this would be an issue that has a decent chance. |
|
|
|
Post by slxpress on Jun 10, 2024 8:33:15 GMT -5
Not just the current congress, but it’s hard to imagine any congress in the near future. I will say that if one party has both houses and the presidency, then there’s a chance. But I have to say I’m actively rooting against that. As bad as the dysfunction is right now I don’t want to see what the country will be like if one side or the other is basically able to pass their agenda unfettered. So I’m hoping for continued deadlock, even if that means college athletics continues to roil from one court decision to another. Would this even be a political issue in that Republicans and Democrats couldn't agree on? I don't know that there are political lines of disagreement here that would be too large for a bipartisan agreement. I also don't think a bipartisan agreement on this issue would create some kind of political backlash from the extremes in either party. This is an issue that wouldn't be in either party's platform (if those were to exist anymore). I am not talking about returning to college sports 40-50 years ago (that cat is long out of the bag). And I am not even suggesting that an agreement in this or any kind of congress would be an improvement - but I do think in theory this would be an issue that has a decent chance. What I have seen is a tendency to take the opposite stance once the other party seems to take a position. The Democrats have done the most work on it, with Senator Booker leading the charge. He’s introduced legislation that I would consider favorable to student athletes. Manchin and Tuberville talked about introducing legislation. Given Manchin’s long, close friendship with Nick Saban and Tuberville’s former profession as a college football coach, I would assume their’s would have been more administration friendly, but Manchin retired and the only thing we’ve seen from Tuberville so far is the massive blocking of military promotions over the armed services abortion policies, which he has ended. Consistently Democrat controlled NLRBs have voted to classify college athletes as employees, while Republican controlled NLRBs have been against it. I wouldn’t say it’s impossible to hammer out a bipartisan deal. But in this climate, in my opinion, it’s close to it. It’s difficult for me to see them even expending the necessary bandwidth until things get drastically worse. But that’s only my opinion. Strong opinion, but opinion nonetheless. |
|
|
|
Post by mplsgopher on Jun 10, 2024 8:45:50 GMT -5
Anyone who thinks that the current US Congress is going to get together in a bipartisan way and pass some sort of landmark legislation that magically returns college athletics to what it was 40-50 years ago is just not paying the least bit of attention to reality. I agree. But that's not what I'm hoping for out of Congress. I'm hoping for a federal law that allows for a level playing field instead of Alabama being governed by Alabama law and Ohio State being governed by Ohio laws that might be very different. That doesn't require returning college sports to what it was decades ago. 100% agree with this idea, more than any other thing |
|
|
|
Post by mplsgopher on Jun 10, 2024 8:48:02 GMT -5
Consistently Democrat controlled NLRBs have voted to classify college athletes as employees, while Republican controlled NLRBs have been against it. There was a pretty vocal dissenter against the person (I believe it ultimately came down to one person’s decision) who used pretty flimsy reasoning to rule for the Dartmouth athletes, as political activism. Which I agree that it was. Don’t know if that dissenter was appointed by a Republican. |
|
|
|
Post by mplsgopher on Jun 10, 2024 8:49:52 GMT -5
Also, I can see that something which seems like it would be universally approved … might just then get held hostage as a bargaining chip.
“We’ll approve college athletics reform, but you have to give us X,Y,Z policy.
|
|
|
|
Post by slxpress on Jun 10, 2024 9:05:29 GMT -5
Also, I can see that something which seems like it would be universally approved … might just then get held hostage as a bargaining chip. “We’ll approve college athletics reform, but you have to give us X,Y,Z policy. But that’s how it should work. Collaborative decision making processes are messy, inefficient, and should leave everyone feeling at least a little dissatisfied if done right. We have one of the worst systems of government in the world to get anything done, but that’s not a bug. It’s a feature. The problem we have right now is due to a number of social, technological, and political challenges coming together, compromise has become a dirty word. Not only is it extremely difficult to get legislation passed in this environment, but any kind of changes in policy - mostly handled through the executive branch since the current congress is historically unproductive, but there have also been some remarkable changes in policy from the Supreme Court, with abortion being the main, but not only one - is bound to upset a lot of people. I think the bigger issue with Congress getting involved is right now there’s still no upside. What constituency are they serving? How is passing legislation involving college athletics going to mobilize their base or increase campaign contributions? Right now both parties are running on the platform that a victory from the other party means the apocalypse is upon us. It’s just hard to get anything done in this environment. I know college sports is important to us. It’s extremely important to me. But it’s hard to get a politician to even take it all that seriously. In the minds of the ones I’ve spoken to, they frankly have bigger fish to fry. |
|
|
|
Post by vbnerd on Jun 10, 2024 10:10:20 GMT -5
We have one of the worst systems of government in the world to get anything done, but that’s not a bug. It’s a feature. Sixth grade civics lesson here that most people have forgotten. |
|
