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Post by c4ndlelight on Jun 27, 2024 22:57:26 GMT -5
I think it would be higher fees. And/or perhaps cut some sports, if they're above the minimum required. Houston Christian has 2780 students, so it's $36 each for every $100,000 in lost revenue. I don't know the Southland's number but I saw another conference report it would cost about $500,000 per school, so using that number, every student at HCU would need to come up with $180 more, and HCU reports 90% of it's students are on need based aid, so for most we are talking about loans, or pell grants. So here's another angle I hadn't considered. How much of this $2.8 billion is going to be paid by financial aid, I.E. taxpayers? I assume that is something Wilkins has to consider. This is a graet argument against these schools even having sports, not the new model. |
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Post by Keegan Cuck on Jun 27, 2024 23:50:10 GMT -5
Gotta make sure Texas can afford all those Lamborghinis for their football recruits. Do you think they have cameras in the parking lot? I'll be there slashing tires.  The cameras are in the cars themselves lol |
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Post by vbnerd on Jun 28, 2024 7:44:33 GMT -5
Houston Christian has 2780 students, so it's $36 each for every $100,000 in lost revenue. I don't know the Southland's number but I saw another conference report it would cost about $500,000 per school, so using that number, every student at HCU would need to come up with $180 more, and HCU reports 90% of it's students are on need based aid, so for most we are talking about loans, or pell grants. So here's another angle I hadn't considered. How much of this $2.8 billion is going to be paid by financial aid, I.E. taxpayers? I assume that is something Wilkins has to consider. This is a graet argument against these schools even having sports, not the new model. Fair point, but they do have sports, they are a member of the NCAA, they do receive federal aid and if the NCAA isn't going to consider/represent their interests, my understanding is that Judge Wilkin is obligated to consider them. |
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Post by mplsgopher on Jun 28, 2024 7:59:29 GMT -5
Houston Christian has 2780 students, so it's $36 each for every $100,000 in lost revenue. I don't know the Southland's number but I saw another conference report it would cost about $500,000 per school, so using that number, every student at HCU would need to come up with $180 more, and HCU reports 90% of it's students are on need based aid, so for most we are talking about loans, or pell grants. So here's another angle I hadn't considered. How much of this $2.8 billion is going to be paid by financial aid, I.E. taxpayers? I assume that is something Wilkins has to consider. This is a graet argument against these schools even having sports, not the new model. Having *DI* sports, at least |
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Post by n00b on Jun 28, 2024 9:52:49 GMT -5
Houston Christian has 2780 students, so it's $36 each for every $100,000 in lost revenue. I don't know the Southland's number but I saw another conference report it would cost about $500,000 per school, so using that number, every student at HCU would need to come up with $180 more, and HCU reports 90% of it's students are on need based aid, so for most we are talking about loans, or pell grants. So here's another angle I hadn't considered. How much of this $2.8 billion is going to be paid by financial aid, I.E. taxpayers? I assume that is something Wilkins has to consider. This is a graet argument against these schools even having sports, not the new model. Having *DI* sports, at least Having D1 sports is not equivalent to being Alabama. Houston Christian has 361 athletes at a school of 2,152 full-time undergraduates. Dropping sports would mean a 15% drop in enrollment (allowing for a small percentage of students who might've gone there anyway, but that's rare). According to their website, cost of attendance is a little over $58k per year. For 361 athletes, that's about $21 million. Their OPE profile says they awarded $9.8 million in athletic aid last year and their total expenses (including those scholarship dollars) was $20.2 million. Now, that math isn't perfect but when you add in the free advertising that you get from the local news about your D1 athletic program, plus extra engagement from alumni and donors, it's absolutely worth having D1 athletics. |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Jun 28, 2024 14:05:54 GMT -5
This is a graet argument against these schools even having sports, not the new model. Having *DI* sports, at least Having D1 sports is not equivalent to being Alabama. Houston Christian has 361 athletes at a school of 2,152 full-time undergraduates. Dropping sports would mean a 15% drop in enrollment (allowing for a small percentage of students who might've gone there anyway, but that's rare). According to their website, cost of attendance is a little over $58k per year. For 361 athletes, that's about $21 million. Their OPE profile says they awarded $9.8 million in athletic aid last year and their total expenses (including those scholarship dollars) was $20.2 million. Now, that math isn't perfect but when you add in the free advertising that you get from the local news about your D1 athletic program, plus extra engagement from alumni and donors, it's absolutely worth having D1 athletics. Yeah, that math isn't perfect. The accounting for the costs of school sports is understated at all levels (fun activity - try to find out how much of your local school district's budget is spent on athletic expenses, salaries, etc.) as well as the opportunity cost of institutional diversion from the educational mission. |
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Post by n00b on Jun 28, 2024 14:20:26 GMT -5
Having D1 sports is not equivalent to being Alabama. Houston Christian has 361 athletes at a school of 2,152 full-time undergraduates. Dropping sports would mean a 15% drop in enrollment (allowing for a small percentage of students who might've gone there anyway, but that's rare). According to their website, cost of attendance is a little over $58k per year. For 361 athletes, that's about $21 million. Their OPE profile says they awarded $9.8 million in athletic aid last year and their total expenses (including those scholarship dollars) was $20.2 million. Now, that math isn't perfect but when you add in the free advertising that you get from the local news about your D1 athletic program, plus extra engagement from alumni and donors, it's absolutely worth having D1 athletics. Yeah, that math isn't perfect. The accounting for the costs of school sports is understated at all levels (fun activity - try to find out how much of your local school district's budget is spent on athletic expenses, salaries, etc.) as well as the opportunity cost of institutional diversion from the educational mission. Students at my local school district aren't paying tuition. Losing 15% of their enrollment would be devastating to Houston Christian. They'd lose a lot of tuition dollars and probably be forced to lay off professors. Donors would stop donating and even outside of athletics, they'd likely lose potential students that can no longer cheer on their school's teams. I know of literally one school that has dropped sports (St Francis in Brooklyn). I guess we can see how it works out for them. Most schools run the numbers and they are more likely to fold completely rather than dropping the athletic department. |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Jun 28, 2024 15:17:31 GMT -5
Yeah, that math isn't perfect. The accounting for the costs of school sports is understated at all levels (fun activity - try to find out how much of your local school district's budget is spent on athletic expenses, salaries, etc.) as well as the opportunity cost of institutional diversion from the educational mission. Students at my local school district aren't paying tuition. Losing 15% of their enrollment would be devastating to Houston Christian. They'd lose a lot of tuition dollars and probably be forced to lay off professors. Donors would stop donating and even outside of athletics, they'd likely lose potential students that can no longer cheer on their school's teams. I know of literally one school that has dropped sports (St Francis in Brooklyn). I guess we can see how it works out for them. Most schools run the numbers and they are more likely to fold completely rather than dropping the athletic department. You assume they wouldn't replace enrollment with non-student athletes, or be able to expand it elsewise with all the institutional attendance freed up. Also, almost no one attends Houston Christian sports games (volleyball averages 238 per match, football less than 2K), so you'd be really hard pressed to prove that anyone is passionate about attending sports or supporting it. That schools continue to invest in sports because it's the near-universal practice among universities does not mean anything. Also, if offering sports is the only thing keeping the university alive, it's got bigger issues than student-athlete classification. If anything, society would probably be better off by redirecting the investment and funds to independently sustainable institutions (and so would students). |
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Post by mplsgopher on Jun 28, 2024 20:27:18 GMT -5
You assume they wouldn't replace enrollment with non-student athletes Right. Most schools usually receive more applicants than they accept or admit. |
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Post by mplsgopher on Jun 28, 2024 20:29:07 GMT -5
This is a graet argument against these schools even having sports, not the new model. Having *DI* sports, at least Having D1 sports is not equivalent to being Alabama. Houston Christian has 361 athletes at a school of 2,152 full-time undergraduates. Dropping sports would mean a 15% drop in enrollment (allowing for a small percentage of students who might've gone there anyway, but that's rare). According to their website, cost of attendance is a little over $58k per year. For 361 athletes, that's about $21 million. Their OPE profile says they awarded $9.8 million in athletic aid last year and their total expenses (including those scholarship dollars) was $20.2 million. Now, that math isn't perfect but when you add in the free advertising that you get from the local news about your D1 athletic program, plus extra engagement from alumni and donors, it's absolutely worth having D1 athletics. Well, what I was referring to was keeping sports and going DII or DIII.
I'm not sure why the either/or you present here is DI or drop altogether. Lot of private schools, and some very high academic ones at that, have DIII sports.
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Post by mplsgopher on Jul 7, 2024 11:36:06 GMT -5
From the article:
Berman and Kessler raise several counter-arguments.
They argue HCU—an “unnamed coconspirator” of the NCAA—allegedly lacks standing. To that point, Berman and Kessler belittle HCU for raising “hypothetical fears” since the parties haven’t yet filed a preliminary approval motion for Wilken to consider (they are expected to do so by July 15). HCU’s claims about settlement terms and impact are dismissed as “mere” and unactionable “conjecture.”
The attorneys also contend that “contrary to HCU’s speculation,” the settlement envisions “all potential future payments from universities to college athletes” as “voluntary”—just like, Berman and Kessler point out, it is voluntary for universities to play in D-I and remain NCAA members.
Berman and Kessler also maintain that HCU’s interests are “adequately protected by existing parties that have identical interests.”
They insist the NCAA, as a membership organization, “speaks” for HCU and other member schools. Berman and Kessler add that the NCAA’s board of governors, which is supposedly representative of college athletics, “voted on the broad contours of the settlement.” As the attorneys see it, “HCU’s post hoc disagreement with the outcome of the vote” is not a valid ground to intervene.
Lastly, Berman and Kessler accuse HCU of distorting the timeline. They maintain HCU has known about the litigation since House was filed in 2020, and if HCU didn’t feel adequately represented by the NCAA and power conferences, HCU “should have (and could have) intervened long ago.”
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Post by vbnerd on Jul 9, 2024 11:55:30 GMT -5
Highlighting something in the article above, that I've seen a couple of times...The NCAA vote and the house settlement was announced when they agreed in principle, on a short form. Then apparently they have to expand that into a more detailed document. IDK if it was precise to this case or generally thinking but they had (or might have had) a 20 page agreement and are expected to submit something closer to 120 pages for the judge to review... that is what is expected to be submitted on July 15, next Monday.
That will have more detail about what is proposed, then the judge has several months to certify the settlement, or (if I have this right) send it back to be modified, or reject it outright. Some people said that could take into the spring, but I think I read Judge Wilkens is retiring soon, so her load is lighter, and the sooner she's done with this, the sooner she can sail off into the sunset, so hopefully it doesn't take too too long to get an answer, one way or the other, because obviously a lot of programs and a lot of kids are basing college decisions off of what she decides.
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Post by mplsgopher on Jul 10, 2024 20:24:49 GMT -5
Highlighting something in the article above, that I've seen a couple of times...The NCAA vote and the house settlement was announced when they agreed in principle, on a short form. Then apparently they have to expand that into a more detailed document. IDK if it was precise to this case or generally thinking but they had (or might have had) a 20 page agreement and are expected to submit something closer to 120 pages for the judge to review... that is what is expected to be submitted on July 15, next Monday. That will have more detail about what is proposed, then the judge has several months to certify the settlement, or (if I have this right) send it back to be modified, or reject it outright. Some people said that could take into the spring, but I think I read Judge Wilkens is retiring soon, so her load is lighter, and the sooner she's done with this, the sooner she can sail off into the sunset, so hopefully it doesn't take too too long to get an answer, one way or the other, because obviously a lot of programs and a lot of kids are basing college decisions off of what she decides. I assume what you're most getting at is the idea that scholarship limits could be going away and roster limits could take their place? Things along those lines |
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Post by mikegarrison on Jul 10, 2024 20:30:34 GMT -5
Students at my local school district aren't paying tuition. Losing 15% of their enrollment would be devastating to Houston Christian. They'd lose a lot of tuition dollars and probably be forced to lay off professors. Donors would stop donating and even outside of athletics, they'd likely lose potential students that can no longer cheer on their school's teams. I know of literally one school that has dropped sports (St Francis in Brooklyn). I guess we can see how it works out for them. Most schools run the numbers and they are more likely to fold completely rather than dropping the athletic department. You assume they wouldn't replace enrollment with non-student athletes, or be able to expand it elsewise with all the institutional attendance freed up. Also, almost no one attends Houston Christian sports games (volleyball averages 238 per match, football less than 2K), so you'd be really hard pressed to prove that anyone is passionate about attending sports or supporting it. That schools continue to invest in sports because it's the near-universal practice among universities does not mean anything. Also, if offering sports is the only thing keeping the university alive, it's got bigger issues than student-athlete classification. If anything, society would probably be better off by redirecting the investment and funds to independently sustainable institutions (and so would students). Almost no one (from MIT) attended most MIT sporting events as spectators, but the PLAYERS found it worthwhile. For the vast majority of schools, sports are a participatory activity, not a spectator spectacle. |
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Post by mplsgopher on Jul 10, 2024 20:38:23 GMT -5
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