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Post by chibadgerfan on Jun 19, 2024 23:59:54 GMT -5
I'm trying to figure out what benefit the larger volleyball community gets from these new recruiting rules? Best I can tell, nothing has really changed re who goes where. The most elite recruits are still ending up at the same handful of schools and end up committing very early (within days), the next tier get filtered into the same handful of stalwart second next tier schools or whichever programs are "in fashion" for the recruiting cycle and end up committing still relatively early (within months). Everyone else gets recruited/commit some time within the next year (which was, what I assume, one of the goal of these new rules.... as many recruits as possible committing later). To make matters worse, there are more transfers then ever, even among underclassmen who had these new recruiting rules, even among elite recruits! Later commitment times leading to players making better decisions.... oh phewy. Tell that to Jurevicious, Kubik, and Mendelson, who all left a team that went to the national championship match the year prior and could have written their ticket to any school out of high school. Personally, I vote for the old method. At least back then, there was a chance that ANY coach could identify talent early, nurture the relationship and develop a rapport. Now, they can't do that. By time they end their 16's year, there really isn't that much unidentified talent. It's all pretty much known at that point (overall ceiling notwithstanding), and coaches have no ability to make a personal connection before that player becomes known. Nowadays, by time schools can have any meaningful interaction with recruits, the talent is known and schools like Texas and Nebraska can then scoop in on day 1 with their attention and money, and sans some family or non-volleyball related personal desire to go to a particular school, most schools just don't stand a chance. The rich are just as rich (or getting richer), and players aren't making any better decisions about their future. I call these new recruiting rules a loss for volleyball as a whole. A system of rules that results in offering scholarships to eighth graders is fatally flawed. So while I appreciate that this year’s rules are far from perfect, going back to the past isn’t the right answer either. Moreover how do you get away from the best players wanting to play for the best teams, and vice versa? That is the inevitable result of a matchmaking system with freedom of choice. It’s just not possible to to institute something like a draft. At best a waiting period between offer and acceptance of offer may help, but I don’t see that changing the matches much. For example, if you look at non-athletic college admissions, virtually nobody would choose Ohio State over Stanford even if they were forced to wait one month after both schools offered a scholarship.
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Post by thedudeabides21 on Jun 20, 2024 6:34:10 GMT -5
This goes to show you don't have to play Open division to get noticed. She played up for 18s UEPA team that played in the Liberty Division.
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Post by eyeroll2021 on Jun 20, 2024 6:40:05 GMT -5
I'm trying to figure out what benefit the larger volleyball community gets from these new recruiting rules? Best I can tell, nothing has really changed re who goes where. The most elite recruits are still ending up at the same handful of schools and end up committing very early (within days), the next tier get filtered into the same handful of stalwart second next tier schools or whichever programs are "in fashion" for the recruiting cycle and end up committing still relatively early (within months). Everyone else gets recruited/commit some time within the next year (which was, what I assume, one of the goal of these new rules.... as many recruits as possible committing later). To make matters worse, there are more transfers then ever, even among underclassmen who had these new recruiting rules, even among elite recruits! Later commitment times leading to players making better decisions.... oh phewy. Tell that to Jurevicious, Kubik, and Mendelson, who all left a team that went to the national championship match the year prior and could have written their ticket to any school out of high school. Personally, I vote for the old method. At least back then, there was a chance that ANY coach could identify talent early, nurture the relationship and develop a rapport. Now, they can't do that. By time they end their 16's year, there really isn't that much unidentified talent. It's all pretty much known at that point (overall ceiling notwithstanding), and coaches have no ability to make a personal connection before that player becomes known. Nowadays, by time schools can have any meaningful interaction with recruits, the talent is known and schools like Texas and Nebraska can then scoop in on day 1 with their attention and money, and sans some family or non-volleyball related personal desire to go to a particular school, most schools just don't stand a chance. The rich are just as rich (or getting richer), and players aren't making any better decisions about their future. I call these new recruiting rules a loss for volleyball as a whole. Lol I don't think recruiting rules should give any consideration to the "larger volleyball community". IMO it was shielding young athletes from pressure. Yes they're still 16/17, but that's better than 14/15. Also,it gives later bloomers a chance to develop
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Post by rjaege on Jun 20, 2024 7:00:13 GMT -5
I'm trying to figure out what benefit the larger volleyball community gets from these new recruiting rules? Best I can tell, nothing has really changed re who goes where. The most elite recruits are still ending up at the same handful of schools and end up committing very early (within days), the next tier get filtered into the same handful of stalwart second next tier schools or whichever programs are "in fashion" for the recruiting cycle and end up committing still relatively early (within months). Everyone else gets recruited/commit some time within the next year (which was, what I assume, one of the goal of these new rules.... as many recruits as possible committing later). To make matters worse, there are more transfers then ever, even among underclassmen who had these new recruiting rules, even among elite recruits! Later commitment times leading to players making better decisions.... oh phewy. Tell that to Jurevicious, Kubik, and Mendelson, who all left a team that went to the national championship match the year prior and could have written their ticket to any school out of high school. Personally, I vote for the old method. At least back then, there was a chance that ANY coach could identify talent early, nurture the relationship and develop a rapport. Now, they can't do that. By time they end their 16's year, there really isn't that much unidentified talent. It's all pretty much known at that point (overall ceiling notwithstanding), and coaches have no ability to make a personal connection before that player becomes known. Nowadays, by time schools can have any meaningful interaction with recruits, the talent is known and schools like Texas and Nebraska can then scoop in on day 1 with their attention and money, and sans some family or non-volleyball related personal desire to go to a particular school, most schools just don't stand a chance. The rich are just as rich (or getting richer), and players aren't making any better decisions about their future. I call these new recruiting rules a loss for volleyball as a whole. A system of rules that results in offering scholarships to eighth graders is fatally flawed. So while I appreciate that this year’s rules are far from perfect, going back to the past isn’t the right answer either. Moreover how do you get away from the best players wanting to play for the best teams, and vice versa? That is the inevitable result of a matchmaking system with freedom of choice. It’s just not possible to to institute something like a draft. At best a waiting period between offer and acceptance of offer may help, but I don’t see that changing the matches much. For example, if you look at non-athletic college admissions, virtually nobody would choose Ohio State over Stanford even if they were forced to wait one month after both schools offered a scholarship. The current system probably helps the top teams more than the old system. Lot easier to evaluate talent at 15-16 yrs old than 13-14 yr olds. However, assuming scholarship limits are increased and transfer rules stay or get more open, IMO that has more impact than HS recruiting rules. Been thru this before with football in the 1960's & early 1970's. Top 10 was the same every year. Then started limiting scholarships. With the limits, the high ranked teams could no longer hoard talent. Now WVB is increasing scholarships. IMO the strong will get stronger. As to transfers, the transfer portal taketh and giveth. Again this tends to favor the stronger teams. Players wanting more playing time transfer out. Established players with proven skills transfer in. NE example, Jurevicious, Kubik & Mendelson transfered out, all very good players. This opened scholarships for Landfair and Blackwell to transfer into NE. Overall NE was not weakened, at least not for 2024. No answers here, but having lived thru the 1960's as a football fan, my advice: Life is short, pick a top team to cheer for, but relish the games when the underdogs upset the mighty.
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Post by n00b on Jun 20, 2024 8:39:02 GMT -5
I'm trying to figure out what benefit the larger volleyball community gets from these new recruiting rules? Best I can tell, nothing has really changed re who goes where. The most elite recruits are still ending up at the same handful of schools and end up committing very early (within days), the next tier get filtered into the same handful of stalwart second next tier schools or whichever programs are "in fashion" for the recruiting cycle and end up committing still relatively early (within months). Everyone else gets recruited/commit some time within the next year (which was, what I assume, one of the goal of these new rules.... as many recruits as possible committing later). To make matters worse, there are more transfers then ever, even among underclassmen who had these new recruiting rules, even among elite recruits! Later commitment times leading to players making better decisions.... oh phewy. Tell that to Jurevicious, Kubik, and Mendelson, who all left a team that went to the national championship match the year prior and could have written their ticket to any school out of high school. Personally, I vote for the old method. At least back then, there was a chance that ANY coach could identify talent early, nurture the relationship and develop a rapport. Now, they can't do that. By time they end their 16's year, there really isn't that much unidentified talent. It's all pretty much known at that point (overall ceiling notwithstanding), and coaches have no ability to make a personal connection before that player becomes known. Nowadays, by time schools can have any meaningful interaction with recruits, the talent is known and schools like Texas and Nebraska can then scoop in on day 1 with their attention and money, and sans some family or non-volleyball related personal desire to go to a particular school, most schools just don't stand a chance. The rich are just as rich (or getting richer), and players aren't making any better decisions about their future. I call these new recruiting rules a loss for volleyball as a whole. A system of rules that results in offering scholarships to eighth graders is fatally flawed. So while I appreciate that this year’s rules are far from perfect, going back to the past isn’t the right answer either. Moreover how do you get away from the best players wanting to play for the best teams, and vice versa? That is the inevitable result of a matchmaking system with freedom of choice. It’s just not possible to to institute something like a draft. At best a waiting period between offer and acceptance of offer may help, but I don’t see that changing the matches much. For example, if you look at non-athletic college admissions, virtually nobody would choose Ohio State over Stanford even if they were forced to wait one month after both schools offered a scholarship. I just disagree that 100 15 and 16 year olds being pressured to commit within a week of being permitted to have any recruiting conversations is better than the small number of 8th graders that got scholarship offers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2024 8:46:37 GMT -5
A system of rules that results in offering scholarships to eighth graders is fatally flawed. So while I appreciate that this year’s rules are far from perfect, going back to the past isn’t the right answer either. Moreover how do you get away from the best players wanting to play for the best teams, and vice versa? That is the inevitable result of a matchmaking system with freedom of choice. It’s just not possible to to institute something like a draft. At best a waiting period between offer and acceptance of offer may help, but I don’t see that changing the matches much. For example, if you look at non-athletic college admissions, virtually nobody would choose Ohio State over Stanford even if they were forced to wait one month after both schools offered a scholarship. I just disagree that 100 15 and 16 year olds being pressured to commit within a week of being permitted to have any recruiting conversations is better than the small number of 8th graders that got scholarship offers. Totally agreed. Very small number. I think the answer is contacts and official visits start Feb of soph year. Let it go from there.
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crossover2
Sophomore
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Post by crossover2 on Jun 20, 2024 9:11:56 GMT -5
A system of rules that results in offering scholarships to eighth graders is fatally flawed. So while I appreciate that this year’s rules are far from perfect, going back to the past isn’t the right answer either. Moreover how do you get away from the best players wanting to play for the best teams, and vice versa? That is the inevitable result of a matchmaking system with freedom of choice. It’s just not possible to to institute something like a draft. At best a waiting period between offer and acceptance of offer may help, but I don’t see that changing the matches much. For example, if you look at non-athletic college admissions, virtually nobody would choose Ohio State over Stanford even if they were forced to wait one month after both schools offered a scholarship. I just disagree that 100 15 and 16 year olds being pressured to commit within a week of being permitted to have any recruiting conversations is better than the small number of 8th graders that got scholarship offers. Why are we assuming they were pressured? Most of the top recruits have been in NTDP for years, allowing them to build relationships with coaches before June 15. There is also communication through their club coach and questions are answered there. In addition, most of the committed ones are athletes who live and breath volleyball. They have been thinking about this since middle school, going to camps since middle school…What else is there to know? It’s like getting married- you’re never going to know 100% until you get in there.
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Post by kiyoat on Jun 20, 2024 9:17:08 GMT -5
Here are some team comparisons (based on the first post of this thread):
on June 20 (after 5th day of open recruiting): so far, 61 athletes have committed to 27 schools, mostly Power-5
Teams with 4 commits: Baylor
Teams with 3 commits: Indiana, Georgia, Texas, UCLA, Wisconsin, LSU
Teams with 2 commits: Penn State, Iowa State, Marquette, Creighton, Ole Miss, Purdue, USC, Louisville
Teams with 1 commit: 23 schools
- I think this is an average of about 12 commits a day in the first 5 days. Not sure, but I think that's much faster than previous years. - The only non-Power conference with teams that have multiple commits: The Big East (Creighton and Marquette) - I'll guess that we see slightly more commitments overall, in anticipation of the changes in scholarship/roster limits? Teams can essentially scoop up more walk-ons, with the contingent promise of a future scholarship.
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Post by hopefuldawg on Jun 20, 2024 9:26:11 GMT -5
I just disagree that 100 15 and 16 year olds being pressured to commit within a week of being permitted to have any recruiting conversations is better than the small number of 8th graders that got scholarship offers. Totally agreed. Very small number. I think the answer is contacts and official visits start Feb of soph year. Let it go from there. Yeah, the offer/visit timeline doesn't make sense aside from teams not being allowed to have official practices right now so there's no guarantee they'll be around as part of the visit. At the same time, I understand it's a lot easier to police "don't contact recruits until this date, period" than "you can have private conversations with recruits but you can't offer them a roster spot until this date." I wonder if allowing contact and official visits both on June 15 slows this down at all. Like if a recruit is getting calls from multiple programs all offering to fly them out within the month in the first conversation, does it give some kids pause and have them commit to the visit within the first few days rather than the school?
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Post by pepperbrooks on Jun 20, 2024 9:28:54 GMT -5
I just disagree that 100 15 and 16 year olds being pressured to commit within a week of being permitted to have any recruiting conversations is better than the small number of 8th graders that got scholarship offers. Why are we assuming they were pressured? Most of the top recruits have been in NTDP for years, allowing them to build relationships with coaches before June 15. In addition, most of the committed ones are athletes who live and breath volleyball. They have been thinking about this since middle school, going to camps since middle school…What else is there to know? It’s like getting married- you’re never going to know 100% until you get in there. You think they're not being pressured? I also don't think they have all the info they need solely based on camp interaction. They might not even be aware of a school that's a better fit because no one else got a chance because the kid commits on June 16th. So now EVERYONE will start cheating and talking to kids surreptitiously to get a head start. It happens now, it'll start happening at every level.
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crossover2
Sophomore
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Posts: 157
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Post by crossover2 on Jun 20, 2024 9:32:04 GMT -5
Why are we assuming they were pressured? Most of the top recruits have been in NTDP for years, allowing them to build relationships with coaches before June 15. In addition, most of the committed ones are athletes who live and breath volleyball. They have been thinking about this since middle school, going to camps since middle school…What else is there to know? It’s like getting married- you’re never going to know 100% until you get in there. You think they're not being pressured? I also don't think they have all the info they need solely based on camp interaction. They might not even be aware of a school that's a better fit because no one else got a chance because the kid commits on June 16th. So now EVERYONE will start cheating and talking to kids surreptitiously to get a head start. It happens now, it'll start happening at every level. You think schools like Ole Miss are pressuring kids to commit? Lol And yes, the top programs have been cheating for years. The conversations happen at NTDP all the time, they happen through club directors, through coaches, etc. We can’t stop that.
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Post by skolgophers on Jun 20, 2024 9:49:41 GMT -5
Still no official announcement or bingo re: Thompson to WI. Maybe she’s weighing other options?
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Post by rjaege on Jun 20, 2024 9:59:10 GMT -5
Why are we assuming they were pressured? Most of the top recruits have been in NTDP for years, allowing them to build relationships with coaches before June 15. In addition, most of the committed ones are athletes who live and breath volleyball. They have been thinking about this since middle school, going to camps since middle school…What else is there to know? It’s like getting married- you’re never going to know 100% until you get in there. You think they're not being pressured? I also don't think they have all the info they need solely based on camp interaction. They might not even be aware of a school that's a better fit because no one else got a chance because the kid commits on June 16th. So now EVERYONE will start cheating and talking to kids surreptitiously to get a head start. It happens now, it'll start happening at every level. As for being pressured to make decisions with limited information: to me that's part of life. Opportunity doors open, you either take the opportunity or pass for something hopefully better. The transfer portal provides opportunity for change. That can be a great leap as well, although behind the scenes networking may reduce uncertainty. Is that cheating? By definition, not if kept within the rules. Can never blame a SA for seeking behind the scene feedback, just looking after their own best interest. Edit: this discussion belongs elsewhere, but many of these recruits are taking their time for us impatient fans during off-season.. LOL.
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Post by badgerguru on Jun 20, 2024 10:05:33 GMT -5
Still no official announcement or bingo re: Thompson to WI. Maybe she’s weighing other options? Its only been one full day since the bingo phone call happened before Sheff’s interview. Patience is needed by most, including myself & maybe it’s not Thompson after all
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Post by n00b on Jun 20, 2024 10:05:44 GMT -5
I just disagree that 100 15 and 16 year olds being pressured to commit within a week of being permitted to have any recruiting conversations is better than the small number of 8th graders that got scholarship offers. Why are we assuming they were pressured? Most of the top recruits have been in NTDP for years, allowing them to build relationships with coaches before June 15. There is also communication through their club coach and questions are answered there. In addition, most of the committed ones are athletes who live and breath volleyball. They have been thinking about this since middle school, going to camps since middle school…What else is there to know? It’s like getting married- you’re never going to know 100% until you get in there. The majority of commitments that have and will happen this week are not between athletes and coaches who have trained together at NDTP. I’ll state again, how this process affects the top 1% isn’t a huge deal to me. I think Isabella Hoppe commits to Pitt whether it was in 8th grade, this week, or a year from now. But athletes in that next tier are absolutely being given offers with deadlines that dictate their recruiting process and doesn’t allow them to take actual visits.
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