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Post by BearClause on Oct 11, 2006 1:21:46 GMT -5
Sanja NEVER played professionally(well in PR *after* UW) and she was done playing at the college level when she was 25 years old, not 30. In fact, she BARELY turned 21 when she enrolled at Washington. I think that was one of the reasons she was granted her 4th year, because she just barely missed the "clock". She played on her JNT, and a couple different youth clubs in her country that has no professional leagues, all the while dodging bombs and bullets in their civil war. I've actually heard the same allegations (that Tomasevic may have been on teams with paid players) that have been made against Kaczor and Cutura. Don't know if it's true, and I frankly don't care all that much. However - it's a crock to think that there was anything all that different about the club system in Serbia compared to other parts of Eastern Europe. And it took a little time to do the research, but I found an older archived bio. Tomasevic's birthdate is June 3, 1980. That made her 22 when she showed up for practice at UW in Aug 2002. Apparently UW removed the DOB from the official bios starting in 2004, which would be Tomasevic's first senior year. web.archive.org/web/20021002222914/gohuskies.ocsn.com/sports/w-volley/mtt/tomasevic_sanja00.html
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Post by BearClause on Oct 11, 2006 9:57:49 GMT -5
In fact, she BARELY turned 21 when she enrolled at Washington. I think that was one of the reasons she was granted her 4th year, because she just barely missed the "clock". I should clarify. She showed up for practice AND enrolled at UW in the Fall of 2002, at the age of **22**, not 21. When she enrolled is not the issue with the rule, but whether or not she competed on a team after turning 21. If you believe that she barely played any competetive volleyball for more than an entire year, then I have a bridge to sell you. If the NCAA committee that decided to waive this requirement had access to that Seattle Times article I've referenced, I think they might have come to a different decision, or at least asked more questions.
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Post by USAFAN on Oct 11, 2006 12:16:07 GMT -5
As much as I kind of wish Rubio hadn't said what he did publicly, after re-reading his comments I don't think he was entirely blaming the loss on Kazcor. No matter the validity of the opinion, right after a match it sounds like sour grapes born out of frustration. They did go to her alot on crucial points and she did take alot of the big swings but Rubio knows that his youngsters have to go through the growing pains and they no longer have the go to players that they did the past 4 years. His remarks to the press all year long have been consistent with that message. His kids are making progress and they will figure it out before too long. Personally ... I don't like the increasing numbers of top programs ( mostly in the Pac 10) bringing in the suspect " amateurs " from abroad. I wouldn't like it if Rubio did it here as I simply think there are enough quality American kids to be developed and alot of our tax dollars go to support these schools. What is the message to say, Kelli Tenant who, after a good freshman year is now sitting the bench behind an imported player. I would think she'd be pissed and her family would be too. Any U$C fans have any input on that ? Talk about a ethnocentric comment. It's one thing to debate whether a player is an amateur or professional is one thing, but the idea that there are plenty of good American girls so therefore we should stay away from foreign is ridiculous. What these foreign athletes bring in simply being different than Americans is a huge asset to any university especially these homogenous universities all over the midwest. Throughout numerous comments on the board there seems to be this underlying bias towards the fact that these players are foreign as opposed to their professional status. Its 2006 foreign students are and SHOULD be abundant in universities, and with how many scholarships there are in women's volleyball these days, no one is really being left out in the cold if they are able to compete at the division 1 level. Keep in mind there is div 2, div 3, naia, and jr. college level as well.
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Post by foreignball on Oct 11, 2006 14:40:43 GMT -5
She played on her JNT, and a couple different youth clubs in her country that has no professional leagues, all the while dodging bombs and bullets in their civil war. Here are some facts: - ST played for the senior NT of SGH before she came here (in 2000 and 2001) - In Europe one can't play for a Junor vball club after age of 19. - No player will get invitation for the NT if she doesn’t play club (senior) or if she plays in a coed league - The person (people) who say (or believe) there is no pro-vball in SCG are either misled or try to mislead other people. I’m a fan of S Tomasevic (I like her game style) and I really didn’t want to post something against her but the above quote puts everything upside down so I couldn’t resist. It is not her (or UW) fault that she was given another year of eligibility......
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Post by BearClause on Oct 11, 2006 14:59:13 GMT -5
I’m a fan of S Tomasevic (I like her game style) and I really didn’t want to post something against her but the above quote puts everything upside down so I couldn’t resist. It is not her (or UW) fault that she was given another year of eligibility...... I've said that I don't fault UW or Tomasevic for trying, then taking the opportunity. However - I do fault the NCAA committee that waived the rule for an atrociously bad decision, where I don't think they did much research, if any. I call in to question UW's judgement for wiping DOB from the VB team's official bios to deflect attention from Tomasevic's advanced age.
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Post by beachman on Oct 11, 2006 15:04:29 GMT -5
He just had the balls to do what the other PAC-10 coaches, with the possible exceptions of those at Cal and Wash, won't say..... so what was Brian's excuse for being hammered by Oregon at the Pyramid? Well it wasn't that they were better than us, that's for sure....you figure it out? and what was Dave's excuse for his other seven losses this year?
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Post by bigfan on Oct 11, 2006 15:08:22 GMT -5
I’m a fan of S Tomasevic (I like her game style) and I really didn’t want to post something against her but the above quote puts everything upside down so I couldn’t resist. It is not her (or UW) fault that she was given another year of eligibility...... I've said that I don't fault UW or Tomasevic for trying, then taking the opportunity. However - I do fault the NCAA committee that waived the rule for an atrociously bad decision, where I don't think they did much research, if any. I call in to question UW's judgement for wiping DOB from the VB team's official bios to deflect attention from Tomasevic's advanced age. Does the NCAA really pay attention to any of this?
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Post by BearClause on Oct 11, 2006 15:28:12 GMT -5
I've said that I don't fault UW or Tomasevic for trying, then taking the opportunity. However - I do fault the NCAA committee that waived the rule for an atrociously bad decision, where I don't think they did much research, if any. I call in to question UW's judgement for wiping DOB from the VB team's official bios to deflect attention from Tomasevic's advanced age. Does the NCAA really pay attention to any of this? They paid enough attention to expressly waive one of their rules. UW's official press releases cited that Tomasevic had to delay entry to college because there was a civil war going on in Serbia (they actually called it war with NATO). gohuskies.cstv.com/sports/w-volley/spec-rel/050905aaa.htmlThe Seattle Times article (dated October 07, 2004) I referenced included an interview where it was indicated that she didn't consider college seriously until she was injured while playing club volleyball. seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2002056184_blai07.html
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Post by pedro el leon on Oct 11, 2006 16:18:47 GMT -5
again, where is the evidence that she played PROFESSIONALLY or with professionals? There is none. They cite her club teams on the website, and neither is professional. those clubs are apparently similar to the NCAA without the education, amateur clubs trying to win the Yugoslavian title. I was mistaken in saying "youth" clubs.
About her age, I seriously thought she was born in '81... hmmm. The the point stands, bik claimed she was 30, when she wasn't, and still isn't, near that age.
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Post by pedro el leon on Oct 11, 2006 16:25:57 GMT -5
Sorry about turning this convo from Kaczor to Tomasevic. Personally don't know why bearclause is trying to draw attention to this when Cutura is more sketchy than Tomasevic in terms of prior involvement with professionals.
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Post by pedro el leon on Oct 11, 2006 16:28:00 GMT -5
Here are some facts: - ST played for the senior NT of SGH before she came here (in 2000 and 2001) Can I see a link or something to prove this please, I've ever only heard that she played with the JNT.
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Post by BearClause on Oct 11, 2006 17:00:31 GMT -5
Sorry about turning this convo from Kaczor to Tomasevic. Personally don't know why bearclause is trying to draw attention to this when Cutura is more sketchy than Tomasevic in terms of prior involvement with professionals. I read/posted quotes from that article and complained about Tomasevic receiving a fourth year of eligibility long before I ever heard the name Hana Cutura. I'm not trying to deflect anything. I thought it was a bad decision then, and I still think it was a bad decision now. The reason why I thought the decision was so bad was because that war had nothing to do with whether or not she attended college, and did nothing to delay her development as a volleyball player. She already had a three year head start on the average NCAA sophomore in physical development and experience. The rule was there, was meant to address players like Sanja Tomasevic, and should have been applied equitably to her. Like I said - I don't know if anyone Tomasevic played with on those club teams was paid and I don't care. However - you make it sound as if the Serbian VB club system was purely amateur, which it clearly was not. I've heard enough about European clubs to understand that some clubs can only pay minimal expenses, while others can afford high-priced salaries. Some clubs can afford to pay small salaries to some of their players one season, but don't have the finances to do so the next season. I'd venture that teams in Serbia pretty much fit that description. It's very possible for someone who is intent on playing at the NCAA level to be proactive about whether or not one plays on a team with salaried players. Hana initiated the process to play NCAA, and I would think that she made a distinct effort to stay NCAA-eligible. Perhaps the same was true for Tomasevic. I don't know, and it wouldn't bother me if she didn't.
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Post by sIsam on Oct 11, 2006 17:33:35 GMT -5
Here are some facts: - ST played for the senior NT of SGH before she came here (in 2000 and 2001) Can I see a link or something to prove this please, I've ever only heard that she played with the JNT. The reason she was deducted the year of eligibility initially was b/c of the NT participation after age 21, not JNT. Max age for JNT is 20, thus it HAS to be the NT participation that caused the initial loss of eligibility per the NCAA rule. Edit: I believe this is the match in particular... www.cev.lu/mmp-cgi/show.pl?cmd=tmpl&id=1046&id2=70&id3=38&id4=3&id5=0&state=p_prj_game_summary&key=0
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Post by BearClause on Oct 11, 2006 17:44:22 GMT -5
Can I see a link or something to prove this please, I've ever only heard that she played with the JNT. The reason she was deducted the year of eligibility initially was b/c of the NT participation after age 21, not JNT. Max age for JNT is 20, thus it HAS to be the NT participation that caused the initial loss of eligibility per the NCAA rule. Frankly it doesn't matter where the "participation" is, just that it's an organized competition (with rosters) past the age of 21. It could be a national team, a junior national team, a club team, or even a YMCA rec league team. While she may have been on the Serbian national team past her 21st Bday, I'd think that there's enough to suggest that she played club VB past the age of 21. I could imagine McLaughlin on the phone to Tomasevic...... Oh no. I don't want you to play at all for one year before you arrive in Seattle. We don't need you to keep up with your volleyball skills or stay in shape.
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Post by OverAndUnder on Oct 11, 2006 17:47:21 GMT -5
The problem with Sanja isn't pro/am status, it was always her age. The pro/am status simply made the age issue more noticeable. There is no evidence that the conflict in the former yugoslav republic kept her from playing volleyball with her club or with the NT system. If she could play for them, she theoretically could come to the USA and play here. The indication is that the war wasn't what kept her from enrolling before age 22, but rather that she simply didn't seriously consider/pursue it until then.
I wonder how many extra years of eligibility the NCAA granted Tulane players, whose city was destroyed by a natural disaster and who were displaced to another state for their entire season...............
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