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Post by rudepa on Oct 24, 2006 9:52:57 GMT -5
Women's volleyball needs to adjust its defensive strategy. There is an emphasis on the dive and roll (without actually attempting to play the ball) as opposed to the lay out and pancake. I understand the need to avoid pushups in practice by at least showing an attempt to play the ball up and to have a quick recovery from your lay out. How you practice is how you play though. It is so frustrating to watch a libero roll across the back of the court (not even really attempting to play the ball up) as opposed to diving. You dont see this in Men's volleyball nearly as much. Why are coaches teaching this to their young players???
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Post by justme on Oct 24, 2006 10:21:04 GMT -5
The strategy behind this is to not actually play the ball but to avoid it. A coach may use this strategy if the ball is just coming too hard or if the score is not covering the spread of the coach's bet. I am very surprised you were able to catch on to players "not acutally attempting to play the ball."
My suggestion is that you only watch the men's game. You could get girls' germs from watching the ladies play!!
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Post by romeo on Oct 24, 2006 10:30:17 GMT -5
I agree. The roll is a way to dramatically show how hard the player is playing, but it doesn't make for better digs. That's pretty much all it's good for (dramatics). So many times, the roll is performed by unathletic players who are then in everyone else's way. Ironically, it's supposed to put one on one's feet more quickly.
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Post by cyberVBmidwest on Oct 24, 2006 10:44:28 GMT -5
I agree. The roll is a way to dramatically show how hard the player is playing, but it doesn't make for better digs. That's pretty much all it's good for (dramatics). So many times, the roll is performed by unathletic players who are then in everyone else's way. Ironically, it's supposed to put one on one's feet more quickly. I thought it was for cleaning the dust off the floor behind the service line where it seems to occur the most. The ball was shanked into the second level but the roll still occurs!!
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Post by foreignball on Oct 24, 2006 10:46:04 GMT -5
It is so frustrating to watch a libero roll across the back of the court (not even really attempting to play the ball up) Diving vs rolling: According to many coaches diving requires a lot more upper body strength than most female players have and rolling comes as an alternative solution. That’s why in mens vball we practically do not see rolls just like we do not see a real ‘flying’ dives in womens game. However rolling works fine (if well executed). I think the whole problem is in the above quote - for some reason a lot of players are thought from very early ages they have to dive/roll, etc. after every ball no matter where it is. So this somehow becomes a higher priority than to make a real attempt to save the ball. That’s what they do later and I’m sure it comes like an instinct. I’ve seen hundreds, may be thousands of situations when a savable ball was missed because the player went on the floor way to early rather than stay on her feet and chasing it. Diving are rolling are the very last means that one should use – once you hit the floor you can’t move any more and very often it is just a matter of couple of inches. So it is not rolling vs diving issue it is a matter of proper training.
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Post by silversurfer on Oct 24, 2006 11:25:11 GMT -5
I don't think girls are real crazy about landing on their chests. Just a thought.
The roll or extension when done correctly let the player dive to the floor without hurting themselves. People who do rolls just to show effort are wasting that effort.
Pancakes are also effective, but can lead players to be lazy and not run to the ball to make a play.
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Post by cinnamonopus on Oct 24, 2006 11:52:50 GMT -5
When I arrived at college, after years of diving and sprawling on defense, my coach insisted that I learn to roll and beat any other defensive method out of me. He insisted the roll was the "American" way of doing things and said "and as we all know, the US has the best volleyball team in the world". (It didn't endear me much to him to argue that other teams use other systems, quite effectively.)
I think at one time, it was taught for two reasons: for an uninterrupted view of the ball and the court, and for a continuous motion to get back on your feet. Both of those rationale are bollocks, if you teach the correct way to dive and sprawl and if you build up a girl's upper body strength. In my opinion, rolling is the stupidest, least defensive "defensive" play in the books. All my girls are taught to sprawl and dive.
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Post by Gorf on Oct 24, 2006 11:57:10 GMT -5
Diving / rolling (as mentioned by foreignball) are last resort options for situations where the player is either out of position, the block wasn't set correctly, or the opposiing player simply made a good attack off of (or around) the block.
I've many situations in mens volleyball where a player dives for a ball and doesn't come close to it as I've seen happen with rolls in women's volleyball.
What I don't see as much in women's or men's volleyball anymore is run throughs by players making a play on the ball while still on their feet and moving instead of stopping to make a play on the ball or diving / rolling to make a play on the ball.
How many times do we hear the fans "ooh and ahhh" over what appears to be a "spectacular play" on the ball when if they'd been watching the players and how the play was being set up instead of only watching the ball they would have noticed that the player making that "spectactular play" turned what ought to have been a (much) easier play into their need to do something spectacular to even have a minimal chance to make a play on the ball?
How many times on serve receive or defense do we hear fans say things like "why do they keep serving / hitting right at him / her" when if they'd been watching the player instead of the ball they'd have noticed the player moving quite a ways on the court to get into position to be able to make what the fans saw as an easy play.
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Post by Wolfgang on Oct 24, 2006 12:01:46 GMT -5
Judo teaches the same roll except that in volleyball, you don't slap the mat with your open hand. Although, now that I mention it, I'd like to see some slapping during the roll. Makes a spectacle even more dramatic than it really should be. Because, in the end, what is the roll, what is volleyball, heck, what is sports but theater!
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Post by BearClause on Oct 24, 2006 12:58:25 GMT -5
How many times do we hear the fans "ooh and ahhh" over what appears to be a "spectacular play" on the ball when if they'd been watching the players and how the play was being set up instead of only watching the ball they would have noticed that the player making that "spectactular play" turned what ought to have been a (much) easier play into their need to do something spectacular to even have a minimal chance to make a play on the ball? I'm a baseball fan. I remember the irrepressable Eric Byrnes. He'd take two steps in the wrong direction, kick in with his blazing speed, and make a diving catch that ended up on SportsCenter. In the meanwhile, his teammates were rolling their eyes thinking that this idiot was getting praised for making a desperation play when he could have been working on his positioning and/or learning how to read the ball coming off the bat. Then they'd really get ticked off when the ball rolled by him for a triple. Mia Jerkov was a superb back-row player. She had decent quickness but it wasn't spectacular quickness by any means. She just saw the ball and where it was going, and set up better than pretty much any player in the Pac-10 since. Her stance was far from textbook (so what) and she'd almost never dive or roll because she rarely had to.
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Post by pedro el leon on Oct 24, 2006 13:08:32 GMT -5
This was posted a while ago, but JLP had Candace Lee switch from diving to rolling, check the highlighted portion: seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/huskies/2003182406_uwvolley08.htmlEx-Husky Lee makes U.S. Grand Prix teamBy Jack Hamann Candace Lee Former Washington Husky Candace Lee has been selected to represent the United States in the 2006 World Grand Prix, an international volleyball competition that will take her around the globe over the next several weeks.
"I am so excited," Lee said. "Playing for the USA is just incredible."
It's also a bit unlikely, considering her preferred method of playing defense.
"When she first came here, she didn't know how to roll," said Jenny Lang Ping, coach of the U.S. national team. Lang had never seen a libero of Lee's caliber dig balls by sliding on her belly.
"So we started teaching her how to roll, and she just got bruises everywhere. But she never complained."
Lee moved up Lang's depth chart, eventually passing other liberos until she made the final cut of 12 American players who will compete in the Grand Prix.
Next week, Lee will be in Poland for a round-robin competition against Poland, Italy and the Dominican Republic. The following week, it's off to Macau, where she'll face the world's top two teams, China and Brazil. A week later comes a trip to Bangkok, with matches against Russia, Korea and Thailand. If the U.S. finishes in the top five, it will qualify for the championships, Sept. 6-10 in Italy.
"I get jet lag," Lee said. "The next couple of weeks are going to be a real challenge."
UW coach Jim McLaughlin thinks she's up to it.
"I've got as much confidence in Candace as any kid I ever coached," he said. "The way she approaches the game, the way she does what's required day after day, the way she makes everyone around her better. She'll do great."
Copyright © 2006 The Seattle Times Company
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Post by IdahoBoy on Oct 24, 2006 20:42:04 GMT -5
I think Melissa Villaroman would have beat out Lee had Mess not been pretty injured during tryouts.
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Post by roofed! on Oct 24, 2006 20:50:39 GMT -5
I think Melissa Villaroman would have beat out Lee had Mess not been pretty injured during tryouts. I doubt so. Villaroman is not a better passer or digger than Lee. Anyway, there is nothing to stop Villaroman from trying out again. More competition at the libero spot will only help players get better.
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Post by bunnywailer on Oct 24, 2006 22:18:10 GMT -5
First off, the pancake is one of the absolute worst defensive moves in the history of volleyball. It was never meant to be a regular part of anyone's defensive repetoire, but it got alot of glory for the "coolness" factor of it. Any ball played off a pancake dig never gets played high enough off the floor to run any sort of transition play out of it, unless your setter is about 3'11" and can get under the ball after a pancake to make a decent set.
In order, the best defensive techniques are:
-The straight dig. Move while the set is in the air to a proper defensive alignment based on the hitter's approach, body position at takeoff, and the dynamics of your own team's block. Stop/set at contact by the hitter. The straight dig offers the best chance of converting on transition if executed properly.
-The run through. Best defensive move for offspeed attacks and balls off the block. From base defensive position, player runs to-and-through the ball and plays the ball up with a good platform.
-Emergency techniques like the extension roll, half roll, barrel roll, or dive. My personal favorite defensive emergency move was play the ball, flop on the ground, and get up anyway you possibly could to save time and get back in the play. The goal of ANY emergency technique is to extend your body to the ball and play the ball up with some sort of stable platform. The roll or the dive is NOT the defensive move itself, but merely a method for recovering from the emergency defensive move/dig and to get back into the play as soon as possible.
Sadly, coaches at all levels of the sport don't really understand that. They spend inordinate amounts of time drilling all these crazy moves, when they are probably used less than 10% of the time in a game/match situation. You also oftentimes see players flopping all over themselves to play balls with the fancy-schmantzy emergency move du jour on balls they could have easily gotten to by merely staying on their feet and executing a good run through.
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Post by IdahoBoy on Oct 24, 2006 22:55:18 GMT -5
I doubt so. Villaroman is not a better passer or digger than Lee. Uh huh!!! She is so.
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