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Post by thetruth on Nov 6, 2006 13:25:16 GMT -5
Reiker,
You seem to be a volley-tard. Isn't part of coaching the ability to bring in players and win? Newcombe seems to be the best player out there, and she's from serbia, oh wait CALIFORNIA! Moore is doing what he has done his entire career. Going to a program in need and winning. He did it at Northern, he did it FIRST at K-State, did it at Chico State, did it AGAIN at Northern Michigan, and now at Oregon. How can ANYONE say he isnt a good coach? Bottom lines are all that matters, let's take a look at some shall we?
1989-93 Northern Michigan (5 years) 123-55 (.691) 1994-96 Kansas State (3 years) 61-34 (.642) 1997-2000 Texas (4 years) 84-38 (.689) 2001-02 Chico State (2 years) 34-21 (.618) 2003-04 Northern Michigan (2 years) 50-8 (.862) 2005-present Oregon (1 year) 12-18 (.400) 1-17 (.056) - (UT OH, THIS SURE CHANGED) Totals 17 Years 364-174 (.677) 20-9 (.690) (PLAY-OFFs)
I dont care how you slice it.... very successfull. His only mistake, taking over after Mick Haley. No one could have replaced him as much as he was revered in Texas. And you guys are right... 84-38 is a crappy record to have at Texas hahahahaha wow
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Post by chipNdink on Nov 6, 2006 13:45:11 GMT -5
Gee, if people are gonna complain about foreign players, why not talk about the current best team with one of the best players, who happens to be foreign? If you're not gonna complain about that, then shut-up about the lower tier teams like Oregon doing the same.
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Post by neodesha on Nov 6, 2006 14:26:43 GMT -5
Add me to the anti-foreign player column, regardless of the sport or sex. Even if they are not "pros" many foreign players are products of "sports academies" where the sport is their full-time job. US players don't have the luxury of attending class for 2 or 3 hours/day and training for 6-7. Keep the clearinghouse to eliminate the true pros when they can be found, and institute an across-the-board cost of two scholarships per foreign player, with a max of one foreign scholarship player per roster.
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Post by BearClause on Nov 6, 2006 14:50:57 GMT -5
Add me to the anti-foreign player column, regardless of the sport or sex. Even if they are not "pros" many foreign players are products of "sports academies" where the sport is their full-time job. US players don't have the luxury of attending class for 2 or 3 hours/day and training for 6-7. Keep the clearinghouse to eliminate the true pros when they can be found, and institute an across-the-board cost of two scholarships per foreign player, with a max of one foreign scholarship player per roster. I think the heyday of the "sports academy" (especially state-funded ones in former socialist countries) is over; these countries just can't afford to fund them they way they used to. The large majority of incoming international student-athletes in NCAA went to regular high schools, but received athletics training at outside sports clubs. If anything, American "sports academies" like the Nick Bollettieri Tennis Academy (now part of the IMG Acadamies) feed many NCAA programs. The IMG Academies has lists of their former students/athletes who went on to pro careers and lists of schools where their graduates were placed. www.imgacademies.com
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Post by greenday on Nov 6, 2006 14:58:15 GMT -5
Anyone care to explain the fact that Oregon's best player is an 18-year old freshman from California?
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Post by BearClause on Nov 6, 2006 15:18:13 GMT -5
Anyone care to explain the fact that Oregon's best player is an 18-year old freshman from California? I don't think anyone is doubting that Newcombe is valuable (although it could be argued that Djuric could be their best player). The important contributions from two Serbs can be discounted. You take those two out and I don't think they're anywhere near what they've accomplished this year.
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Post by neodesha on Nov 6, 2006 15:21:13 GMT -5
Certainly the sports academy has existed in this country as mentioned with tennis, and also gymnastics, for some time. They are the exception rather than the rule in most American sports, however. I only know what I read, and have been told by some athletes and coaches regarding the European system; but as I understand it the sports academy is alive and well in Europe, albeit in the form of private schools as opposed to state funded institutions. I don't see it as a level playing field for the typical volleyball player.
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Post by BearClause on Nov 6, 2006 15:39:50 GMT -5
Certainly the sports academy has existed in this country as mentioned with tennis, and also gymnastics, for some time. They are the exception rather than the rule in most American sports, however. I only know what I read, and have been told by some athletes and coaches regarding the European system; but as I understand it the sports academy is alive and well in Europe, albeit in the form of private schools as opposed to state funded institutions. I don't see it as a level playing field for the typical volleyball player. I'm looking at many of these kids playing in the Pac-10. Mia Jerkov went to an academically-oriented "languages" high school in Pula, Croatia. Tomasevic went to some place called "Medical HS". Hana Cutura did go to some school called "Sportska Gimnazija" in Zagreb, but I don't know exactly how that translates. www.spogi.hr/index.phpWhat's really a "level playing field" these days? The upper middle-class families that can afford high-level junior club instruction (as well as standardized test prep classes) are at an extreme advantage compared to athletically gifted lower middle-class to working-class families.
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Post by reiker21 on Nov 6, 2006 15:49:22 GMT -5
Reiker, You seem to be a volley-tard. Isn't part of coaching the ability to bring in players and win? Newcombe seems to be the best player out there, and she's from serbia, oh wait CALIFORNIA! Moore is doing what he has done his entire career. Going to a program in need and winning. He did it at Northern, he did it FIRST at K-State, did it at Chico State, did it AGAIN at Northern Michigan, and now at Oregon. How can ANYONE say he isnt a good coach? Bottom lines are all that matters, let's take a look at some shall we? 1989-93 Northern Michigan (5 years) 123-55 (.691) 1994-96 Kansas State (3 years) 61-34 (.642) 1997-2000 Texas (4 years) 84-38 (.689) 2001-02 Chico State (2 years) 34-21 (.618) 2003-04 Northern Michigan (2 years) 50-8 (.862) 2005-present Oregon (1 year) 12-18 (.400) 1-17 (.056) - (UT OH, THIS SURE CHANGED) Totals 17 Years 364-174 (.677) 20-9 (.690) (PLAY-OFFs) I dont care how you slice it.... very successfull. His only mistake, taking over after Mick Haley. No one could have replaced him as much as he was revered in Texas. And you guys are right... 84-38 is a crappy record to have at Texas hahahahaha wow
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Post by reiker21 on Nov 6, 2006 16:01:49 GMT -5
Thetruth
I have been involved in volleyball for many years. I have three daughters who played at some of the top D-1 programs in the country. Just because I have an opinion that is not yours does not make it "retarded". I do see a trend beginning to happen and it does appear to be a quick fix for many program. My only concern is that this will slowly become the way that coaches deal with a failing program. I do NOT think Oregon would be where they are this year without the recruiting of their foreign players. Just because you have connections to recruit foreign players does not make you a "good coach". Most programs have the ability to go that route if they chose to. They choose to develop the players they have.
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Post by beachman on Nov 6, 2006 16:09:45 GMT -5
Thetruth I have been involved in volleyball for many years. I have three daughters who played at some of the top D-1 programs in the country. Just because I have an opinion that is not yours does not make it "retarded". I do see a trend beginning to happen and it does appear to be a quick fix for many program. My only concern is that this will slowly become the way that coaches deal with a failing program. I do NOT think Oregon would be where they are this year without the recruiting of their foreign players. Just because you have connections to recruit foreign players does not make you a "good coach". Most programs have the ability to go that route if they chose to. They choose to develop the players they have. Judging by the material that you provided on your biographical profile you are only 36.....if you have had 3 daughters who have all played D-1 volleyball you must have started your family when you were about 12 years old......THE TRUTH
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Post by BearClause on Nov 6, 2006 16:14:18 GMT -5
Thetruth I have been involved in volleyball for many years. I have three daughters who played at some of the top D-1 programs in the country. Just because I have an opinion that is not yours does not make it "retarded". I do see a trend beginning to happen and it does appear to be a quick fix for many program. My only concern is that this will slowly become the way that coaches deal with a failing program. I do NOT think Oregon would be where they are this year without the recruiting of their foreign players. Just because you have connections to recruit foreign players does not make you a "good coach". Most programs have the ability to go that route if they chose to. They choose to develop the players they have. I guess the difference is between the "quick fix" and the long-term recruitment of "trascendent" international student-athletes. Perhaps some recruiters can find their international contacts in the Spring and ask them who might be interested in coming the next Fall. I'm thinking Djuric falls into that category, since Moore was hired at Oregon in the Spring of 2005 and she was signed in about three months. Cal had been working on recruiting Mia Jerkov for years after Lee Maes spotted her at an international youth tournament. Apprently she was only 6'0" at the time, but Lee could see the talent immediately.
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Post by thetruth on Nov 6, 2006 16:46:57 GMT -5
Reiker,
We couldn't disagree Moore....... The ability to go out and get kids that can play IS a skill that a coach needs to possess. Bet the house that if coaches had the chance to recruit these type of players to win, they would. Otherwise you wouldn't be doing your job. Coaches at the elite level are paid to win. Jim Moore wins. He wins within the rules and parameters set-up by the NCAA. His results speak for themselves.......He has won everywhere he has gone.
You cannot dispute that.
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Post by foreignball on Nov 6, 2006 17:08:01 GMT -5
Hana Cutura did go to some school called "Sportska Gimnazija" in Zagreb, but I don't know exactly how that translates. www.spogi.hr/index.phpGymnazija=HS Sportska=Sports, So the meaning is “HS oriented in sports” just like (HS oriented in languages for M Jerkov). Actually the complete title of the school is “Sports school for categorized sports” (see link www.spogi.hr/oskoli/rad.php). They offer “classes” in 43 different sports (see link www.spogi.hr/ucenici/sportovi.php) the list in the middle shows what sports they offer)
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Post by foreignball on Nov 6, 2006 17:11:29 GMT -5
.... I do see a trend beginning to happen and it does appear to be a quick fix for many program. However if you look at this from the coaches standpoint? Say you are just hired and you got a "word" that the AD is not wiling to consider "long term fix" and wants results immediatly, what you are going to do?
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