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Post by Will Rogers Beach on Apr 7, 2004 3:45:51 GMT -5
www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/articles.asp?id=28192M. volleyball: BYU senior’s eligibility questioned Opposite hitter Hillman will still play against UCLA in spite of allegations -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By Diamond Leung DAILY BRUIN SENIOR STAFF dleung@media.ucla.edu Brigham Young University senior opposite hitter Joe Hillman is allegedly in violation of NCAA rules by currently playing in his sixth year of college volleyball, according to an opposing coach, but he is still expected to start in matches at UCLA on Thursday and Friday. A pair of BYU wins could clinch the top seed in the Mountain Pacific Sports Federation tournament for the top-ranked Cougars, who have determined that Hillman has yet to exhaust the NCAA limit of four years of collegiate eligibility. "I wouldn't call it an investigation, but we're aware of it," BYU spokesman Jeff Reynolds said. "We've resolved the issue with our compliance department." The issue of ineligible players has plagued the sport in the recent past, with 2002 national champion Hawai'i having been stripped of its title and 2003 national champion Lewis currently sitting out two players with questionable eligibility. Now, it is conference-leading BYU that is in the spotlight after UC Santa Barbara coach Ken Preston, whose team was swept twice by BYU last month, turned over information regarding Hillman to the NCAA and BYU coach Tom Peterson early last week, according to UCLA coach Al Scates. Hillman, 27, still played in wins over UC San Diego last Friday and Saturday after his eligibility had apparently been cleared, helping extend a school-record winning streak to 20 matches. Since a subsequent investigation by the NCAA and ruling by MPSF commissioner Al Beaird could conceivably result in the forfeiture of matches Hillman appeared in, Scates cautiously accepts the legitimacy of BYU's findings. "He's still playing, so he must be in the clear," Scates said. "If (BYU) says he's eligible, he must be eligible. But UCLA assistant coach Brian Rofer suspects something far more sinister. "It's unfortunate for the athletes to see a blatant disregard for the rules when we're supposed to be educating them," Rofer said. "It's just sad, especially for a religious school. It's just not right." The 6-foot-7 Hillman leads BYU in service aces this season and is the team's second-leading attacker, averaging 3.61 kills per game. He appeared in 21 games for the Cougars in 2003 and earned All-American honors twice in unspecified years for the Utah Valley State College club team before transferring, according to the BYU media guide. Just how much Hillman, a Las Vegas native, played at UVSC after returning from his two-year Mormon mission in 1997 appears to be in question. He made all-tournament teams at the National Intramural-Recreational Sports Association Collegiate Volleyball Sport Club Championships in 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002, according to nirsa.net. "(Preston) looked it up and thought that might be too much," said Scates, who declared his own starting opposite hitter, Cameron Mount, ineligible for the 2003 season after being presented with information proving Mount had used up a fourth year of eligibility seven years earlier before going on his Mormon mission. But BYU believes Hillman to be eligible. "It's all been documented, and he's within the guidelines," Reynolds said. "It's a non-issue."
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Post by Smooth "954" Mike on Apr 7, 2004 7:48:33 GMT -5
Hillman is the least of BYU's upcoming problems.
On the other hand if UCLA would concentrate half of their attention to their own program instead of trying to police all the other schools, maybe they would be the 2001, 2002, and 2003 National Champions. It’s not their job to investigate, that’s what the NCAA is for. It's time for the NCAA to do their job.....
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Post by Bookumdanoaloha on Apr 7, 2004 10:40:46 GMT -5
I believe playing Club Ball counts against a player's eligibility. Three years ago John Mills, Middle Blocker for Penn State was declared ineligible for - playing (2) years for San Diego State; (1) year with San Diego State's Club Team; and (1) year with Penn State. How is that any different for Hillerman playing (4) years of Club Ball at Utah Valley. Four years of playing Division One or Club Ball is still Four years. What makes Hillerman playing history any different from Mills. Losing Mills was a major blow for Penn State that year. They started out Pre-season Number One and reached the semi-finals of the Final Four. Things might have been different had the Nittany Lions didn't lose their Number One Middle Blocker.
Bookumdanoaloha
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Post by vballguy2001 on Apr 7, 2004 10:52:48 GMT -5
The eligibility isn't about the concern of playing. It is about credits. An athletes clock doesn't start until they take 12 credits at any college or university. At Utah Valley State College a player only has to take 9 credits to be able to play there. So if he never took 12 credits then his eligibility would be all messed up even though he played.
As far as I know, it would make sense that that is the loop hole they are jumping through to make it ok for him to play.
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Post by vballguy2001 on Apr 7, 2004 10:54:02 GMT -5
The eligibility isn't about the concern of playing. It is about credits. An athletes clock doesn't start until they take 12 credits at any college or university. At Utah Valley State College a player only has to take 9 credits to be able to play there. So if he never took 12 credits then his eligibility would be all messed up even though he played.
As far as I know, it would make sense that would be the loop hole that they are jumping through to make it "ok" for him to play.
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Post by vballguy2001 on Apr 7, 2004 10:57:22 GMT -5
sorry for the double posts.
If they should look at anybody for eligibility concerns it should be their foreign players. I heard that the dominican on that team was like 28. But I don't know if that is true. Foreign players are getting picked on way to much. But I would look there. Seems like the NCAA likes to go after them.
OR maybe UCLA should just win and not worry bout it until NCAA makes their own investigation.
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Post by volleymom on Apr 7, 2004 11:26:31 GMT -5
RE: "If UCLA would concentrate half of their attention to their own program instead of trying to police all the other schools, maybe they would be the 2001, 2002, and 2003 National Champions..."
Hey Smooth,
UCLA is not focusing on investigating BYU's eligibility. If you really read the Daily Bruin article, it said that Ken Preston, coach of UCSB sent the info. about Hillman to the NCAA and to BYU's coach. The UCLA article was just a student reporter's news about the situation.
Believe me, Scates is focusing on winning the matches against BYU this week. The Bruins are playing well lately. Hopefully, they will play their best on Thursday and Friday!
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Post by lalalaluuuke on Apr 7, 2004 11:32:50 GMT -5
UCLA is not focusing on investigating BYU's eligibility.If you really read the Daily Bruin article, it said that Ken Preston, coach of UCSB sent the info. about Hillman to the NCAA and to BYU's coach. The UCLA article was just a student reporter's news about the situation. Did you miss the quote by Al's assistant? Though Al didn't say it, he didn't stop them from putting in Rofer's comment and of course he knew Rofer said it. They don't want Al to look like the bad guy so they have an assistant say it. The head coach is still responsible for those working for him and their comments to the press. He is their boss.
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Post by vb on Apr 7, 2004 12:11:32 GMT -5
I believe playing Club Ball counts against a player's eligibility. Three years ago John Mills, Middle Blocker for Penn State was declared ineligible for - playing (2) years for San Diego State; (1) year with San Diego State's Club Team; and (1) year with Penn State. How is that any different for Hillerman playing (4) years of Club Ball at Utah Valley. Four years of playing Division One or Club Ball is still Four years. What makes Hillerman playing history any different from Mills. Losing Mills was a major blow for Penn State that year. They started out Pre-season Number One and reached the semi-finals of the Final Four. Things might have been different had the Nittany Lions didn't lose their Number One Middle Blocker. Bookumdanoaloha BYU doesn't have to play by the same rules as PSU. Nor should they have to. You are just picking on them because they are religious. I wonder if the "olympic formula" has been used yet---just find out who gets the bribes. After all this is Utah Mormans....always use the tried and true method of money. Maybe an investigation of NCAA, and NCAA officials bank accounts is in order. I can't wait for the spin-control on this investigation. We will all get a lesson on what the rules REALLY say. IMO the coaches named are the hero of this story. They stuck their neck out, exposing themself and their programs to the wrath of BYU. I wouldn't have done it! After the BYU rulebook is examined and interpeted... does the NCAA give back the Penn State player his season?
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Post by My2Sense on Apr 7, 2004 12:26:38 GMT -5
Did you miss the quote by Al's assistant? Though Al didn't say it, he didn't stop them from putting in Rofer's comment and of course he knew Rofer said it. They don't want Al to look like the bad guy so they have an assistant say it. The head coach is still responsible for those working for him and their comments to the press. He is their boss. There should be no negative consequences for ANYONE reporting those who cheat, especially now. This sport suffered two major black eyes in two consecutive years with UH and Lewis under scrutiny. We all have to "stick our necks out" to purge what could be additional embarrassment and potential damage to a sport that is already on various athletic department radars for possible elimination. We have to start policing our own, or someone else will do it for us and we'll all be sitting here one day wondering why this great sport went the way of men's gymnastics, wrestling and other Olympic sports that are now off the radar. And if a coach is asked by a reporter for his comment I have no problem if they respond with their honest answer. Keep the focus of the problem on the perpetrators, not on the whistle blowers who have the ethics to follow the rules. All they want is for everyone else to play by the equal rules so the competitions are fair. The UCSB coach should be applauded for coming out with what he knows. Rofer is one of the most careful commenters there is. He doesn't usually say something unless he knows something.
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Post by lalalaluuuke on Apr 7, 2004 12:44:24 GMT -5
There should be no negative consequences for ANYONE reporting those who cheat, especially now. This sport suffered two major black eyes in two consecutive years with UH and Lewis under scrutiny. We all have to "stick our necks out" to purge what could be additional embarrassment and potential damage to a sport that is already on various athletic department radars for possible elimination. We have to start policing our own, or someone else will do it for us and we'll all be sitting here one day wondering why this great sport went the way of men's gymnastics, wrestling and other Olympic sports that are now off the radar. And if a coach is asked by a reporter for his comment I have no problem if they respond with their honest answer. Keep the focus of the problem on the perpetrators, not on the whistle blowers who have the ethics to follow the rules. All they want is for everyone else to play by the equal rules so the competitions are fair. The UCSB coach should be applauded for coming out with what he knows. Rofer is one of the most careful commenters there is. He doesn't usually say something unless he knows something. "Sticking his neck out" is not what Rofer did. He followed up his head coach's comments with the complete opposite view. The UCSB coach would have been the one "sticking his neck out." My comment wasn't about sticking one's neck out anyway. It was about the inappropriateness of his comments being said after your boss something. The boss has the final say. In any business if you went to the press and contradicted your boss's statement, you would be fired. If you don't believe me, go ahead and try it and see where it gets you and then report back on this thread. Unless of course, the boss agrees w/ you but couldn't say it for political correctness. I bet it was a lot easier for UCSB's coach to make the accusations after getting swept and having a bad blood altercation following the match. If he had won we wouldn't be hearing about these allegations now. All a coach can do is go through their compliance and if it clears then he should be able to proceed. That is what Tom Peterson has done.
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Post by idigvb on Apr 7, 2004 12:48:59 GMT -5
I hope for volleyballs sake it isn't true, because if it is then it's just another sad chapter to go along with the last two years!
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Post by PukaPants on Apr 7, 2004 12:50:52 GMT -5
I guarantee Joe Hillman would be such a nonissue IF HE WAS A BYU BENCHWARMER.
If anything, perhaps the NCAA rules are not clearly defined, thus allowing loopholes that so many school have exploited.
Whose fault is it? I say the NCAA.
I've worked a few years ago for Tom Peterson and I know he is a man of ethics and integrity. If he knew Hillman's eligibility would be an issue, he wouldn't be in the team. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and trust that he and staff verified everything was okay with the NCAA.
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Post by My2Sense on Apr 7, 2004 13:15:04 GMT -5
"Sticking his neck out" is not what Rofer did. He followed up his head coach's comments with the complete opposite view. The UCSB coach would have been the one "sticking his neck out." My comment wasn't about sticking one's neck out anyway. It was about the inappropriateness of his comments being said after your boss something. The boss has the final say. In any business if you went to the press and contradicted your boss's statement, you would be fired. If you don't believe me, go ahead and try it and see where it gets you and then report back on this thread. Unless of course, the boss agrees w/ you but couldn't say it for political correctness. I bet it was a lot easier for UCSB's coach to make the accusations after getting swept and having a bad blood altercation following the match. If he had won we wouldn't be hearing about these allegations now. All a coach can do is go through their compliance and if it clears then he should be able to proceed. That is what Tom Peterson has done. It seems that anyone with an honest opinion is to be accused of having selfish agendas. I also don't assume Rofer knew what Scate's comments were prior to him making his own comments. Regardless, anyone can see that Scate's style is to say what's on his mind. He's an open book. I'd bet he encourages that with his protégés. It’s funny to me how most people like others who say what’s on their minds, but every time Scates says something revealing someone criticizes him. You know where you stand with him. One can’t say that much any more in today’s PC world. Again, deflecting the blame for these improprieties seems to be the real sport lately. My point is that we need honest people to stick their necks out more, regardless of whom they are if they know something. I for one am sick and tired of this crappola and the dark cloud it’s painted on this sport. Either we clean it up or someone else will. And I agree that the NCAA has to be more precise with rules so the gray areas are taken out. Lastly, the head coaches should be pushing their compliance people harder to dig deeper, especially now that so many questionable issues are being raised on a routine basis.
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Post by PukaPants on Apr 7, 2004 13:30:24 GMT -5
I bet it was a lot easier for UCSB's coach to make the accusations after getting swept and having a bad blood altercation following the match. If he had won we wouldn't be hearing about these allegations now. All a coach can do is go through their compliance and if it clears then he should be able to proceed. That is what Tom Peterson has done. Red, oh hell, it was that guy??? Sheeesh......I will never forget that angry face when he was screaming at Moreno....
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