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Post by Gorf on Sept 24, 2007 19:00:17 GMT -5
The Pac-10 conference (overall) is just better than any other conference. Deal with it, and stop whining. So basically you're afraid to have the Pac 10 treated the same as other conferences by the poll voters? #3 Penn State - def unranked Northwestern in 3 games. - def unranked Michigane State in 3 games. - they drop 6 points. #4 USC - def unranked Arizona in 5 games. - def unranked Arizona State in 3 games. - they drop 2 points. #5 UCLA - def unranked Arizona in 4 games. - def unranked Arizona State in 3 games. - they gain 4 points. #6 Florida - def unrankded Mississippi in 3 games. - def #22 ranked LSU in 3 games. - they drop 6 points. By Pablo rating points: 8230 Northwestern 8060 Arizona 7810 LSU 7700 Michigan State 7425 Ole Miss 7360 Arizona State Not any consistency in the AVCA poll / votes though the point differentials are small.
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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Sept 24, 2007 19:13:02 GMT -5
Dayton at #15? Who have they beaten besides Purdue and Utah, neither of whom is rated nor getting votes? Washington at #8? Who have they beaten besides Oregon? I equate Dayton in volleyball to Boise State in football (last year). You could make the same argument for the latter last year. Going undefeated, particularly having played some Top 50 teams, has to be worth something. Should Dayton lose, you will probably see them drop a lot more than other perennial high ranking teams. Note that Pablo has been very cautious on Dayton this year. I am somewhat surprised, because I would think that an undefeated team, even with a bunch of close matches, would creap higher than they have, especially considering the competition they have played. You would think beating #36 at Purdue in 3 would lead to more than 38, but then I guess dropping games to Jacksonville, Wake, and then going basically 50/50 against St Louis hurts enough.
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Post by pedro el leon on Sept 24, 2007 19:17:18 GMT -5
Why is everybody freaking out over Washington? Oregon took them to 5 games at Oregon last year and UW still made it to the Final Four. Oregon State took UW to 5 games at OSU in '04 and UW still went to the final four.
Some people are seriously underestimating Oregon, they are #10 in Pablo (but then again, Washington is #1 in Pablo right now, LOL). But as we all know, Pablo is much better than the AVCA rankings. While 10 might be too high, that is the way they are playing in comparison to the rest of the nation RIGHT NOW.
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Post by runninrebel44 on Sept 24, 2007 19:23:07 GMT -5
Ruffio, I've noticed the same thing. Purdue is not even recieving votes this week, not that actually shows how good they are, but Dayton and Duke are given credit for that win alone. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Dayton and Duke are not "given credit for that win alone." That's not how polls work. Dayton and Duke are ranked where they are for the same reason: they were ranked close to that last week, and neither lost. The AVCA voters don't care who Dayton and Duke or Michigan or Kansas St have beaten. All they care about is, where were they ranked last week? And, did they lose (and, if so, to whom)? If they lose, they might drop (depending on who). When one team drops, that means the other teams move up. Don't interpret any more than that. I completely understand how it works, dub. But how did those teams get to where they are or close to where they are now? By beating Purdue. Without credit for that win, they aren't where they are, in the poll, making it possible for them to simply win often against whoever and stay where they are or shift a little in the polls. And by snipping out the majority of my original post, you miss out on half of my reasoning.
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Post by FreeBall on Sept 24, 2007 19:44:00 GMT -5
Washington has to play Stanford, USC, UCLA, and Cal a total of 8 times this season. That is more quality matches than Florida or Nebraska will play. You may be right with respect to Florida, but your statement doesn't hold water when looking at the quality of Nebraska's schedule. They played non conference matches against UCLA and Penn State. In the conference season they have two matches with Texas, Kansas State and Oklahoma, all of which are ranked higher than California in this week's Pablo rankings. That's a total of eight "quality matches" using your definition of that term.
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Post by chipNdink on Sept 24, 2007 19:55:45 GMT -5
The Pac-10 conference (overall) is just better than any other conference. Deal with it, and stop whining. So basically you're afraid to have the Pac 10 treated the same as other conferences by the poll voters? ... By Pablo rating points: 8230 Northwestern 8060 Arizona 7810 LSU 7700 Michigan State 7425 Ole Miss 7360 Arizona State Not any consistency in the AVCA poll / votes though the point differentials are small. Apparently EVERYONE--the AVCA, even me--have been biased AGAINST the Pac-10 according to Pablo, who has Washington at number 1?? Go figure? Or better yet, start arguing how Pablo has MORE built-in bias for the Pac-10 than even the AVCA or me.
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Post by Gorf on Sept 24, 2007 20:15:18 GMT -5
Rank | Team | Conference | Points | Record | Prev. Rank | Diff. | Prev. Points | Diff. | | 1 | Nebraska | Big 12 | 1495 | 10-0 | 1 | 0 | 1477 | 18 | | 2 | Stanford | Pac 10 | 1445 | 12-0 | 2 | 0 | 1392 | 53 | | 3 | Penn State | Big 10 | 1359 | 10-2 | 3 | 0 | 1426 | -67 | | 4 | USC | Pac 10 | 1302 | 12-0 | 4 | 0 | 1285 | 17 | | 5 | UCLA | Pac 10 | 1255 | 12-1 | 5 | 0 | 1269 | -14 | | 6 | Florida | SEC | 1102 | 11-0 | 6 | 0 | 1207 | -105 | | 7 | Texas | Big 12 | 1142 | 6-3 | 7 | 0 | 1161 | -19 | | 8 | Wasington | Pac 10 | 1087 | 13-0 | 8 | 0 | 1067 | 20 | | 9 | Wisconsin | Big 10 | 1023 | 10-1 | 9 | 0 | 957 | 66 | | 10 | California | Pac 10 | 943 | 13-1 | 11 | 1 | 872 | 71 | | 11 | Michigan | Big 10 | 851 | 13-1 | 10 | -1 | 1008 | -157 | | 12 | Minnesota | Big 10 | 830 | 9-3 | 12 | 0 | 792 | 38 | | 13 | Hawaii | WAC | 745 | 10-3 | 13 | 0 | 755 | -10 | | 14 | Duke | ACC | 694 | 8-3 | 14 | 0 | 608 | 86 | | 15 | San Diego | West Coast | 654 | 9-4 | 15 | 0 | 651 | 3 | | 16 | Dayton | Atlantic 10 | 527 | 15-0 | 18 | 2 | 608 | -81 | | 17 | Ohio | MAC | 481 | 10-3 | 19 | 2 | 583 | -102 | | 18 | Kansas State | Big 12 | 381 | 11-3 | 16 | -2 | 448 | -67 | | 19 | St. John's | Big East | 336 | 17-2 | 21 | 2 | 325 | 11 | | 20 | Cal Poly | Big West | 317 | 8-6 | 20 | 0 | 480 | -163 | | 21 | Oregon | Pac 10 | 262 | 12-2 | 24 | 3 | 184 | 78 | | 22 | LSU | SEC | 257 | 11-2 | 22 | 0 | 351 | -94 | | 23 | BYU | Mountain West | 225 | 8-4 | 17 | -6 | 201 | 24 | | 24 | New Mexico State | WAC | 172 | 11-3 | 25 | 1 | 152 | 20 | | 25 | Oklahoma | Big 12 | 141 | 11-2 | 30 | 5 | 46 | 95 | | 26 | Middle Tennessee | Sun Belt | 55 | ? | 28 | 2 | 54 | 1 | | 27 | Colorado State | Mountain West | 49 | ? | 29 | 2 | 48 | 1 | | 28 | Ohio State | Big 10 | 46 | ? | 23 | -5 | 197 | -151 | | 29 | Sacramento State | Big Sky | 38 | ? | 31 | 2 | 33 | 5 | | 30 | Missouri State | Missouri Valley | 36 | ? | 32 | 2 | 31 | 5 | | 31 | UNLV | Mountain West | 35 | ? | 26 | -5 | 92 | -57 | | 32 | LBSU | Big West | 29 | ? | 27 | -5 | 74 | -45 | | 33 | Pepperdine | West Coast | 24 | ? | 33 | 0 | 26 | -2 | | 34 | Arizona | Pac 10 | 15 | ? | 39 | 5 | 10 | 5 | | 35 | Louisville | Big east | 36 | ? | 36 | 1 | 12 | 24 | | 36 | Iowa State | Big 12 | 11 | ? | 35 | -1 | 16 | -5 | | 37 | Wichita State | Missouri Valley | 10 | ? | 38 | 1 | 11 | -1 | | 38 | Tulane | C-USA | 8 | ? | 42 | 4 | 8 | 0 | | | | | | | | | | Unlisted Points | 16 | | | | | | Total Points: | 19434 | | | | | | | | | | | Conference | Teams Ranked | Rank Diff. | Point Diff. | | | | | 1 | Pac 10 | 7 | 9 | 230 | | | | 2 | Big 12 | 5 | 2 | 22 | | | | 3 | Big 10 | 5 | -6 | -271 | | | | 4 | Big East | 2 | 3 | 35 | | 5 | SEC | 2 | 0 | -199 | | 6 | West Coast | 2 | 0 | 1 | | 7 | Mountain West | 3 | 0 | -32 | | 8 | Big West | 2 | -5 | -208 | | 9 | WAC | 2 | 1 | 10 | | 10 | MAC | 1 | 2 | -102 | | 11 | ACC | 1 | 0 | 86 | | 13 | Big Sky | 1 | 2 | 5 | | 14 | Missouri Valley | 2 | 3 | 4 | | 15 | Big Sky | 1 | 2 | 5 | | 16 | C-USA | 1 | 4 | 0 | | 17 | Atlantic 10 | 1 | 2 | -81 | | | | | | | Total Teams: | 38 | |
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Post by ay2013 on Sept 24, 2007 20:15:35 GMT -5
Washington has to play Stanford, USC, UCLA, and Cal a total of 8 times this season. That is more quality matches than Florida or Nebraska will play. You may be right with respect to Florida, but your statement doesn't hold water when looking at the quality of Nebraska's schedule. They played non conference matches against UCLA and Penn State. In the conference season they have two matches with Texas, Kansas State and Oklahoma, all of which are ranked higher than California in this week's Pablo rankings. That's a total of eight "quality matches" using your definition of that term. Oh yes I'm sure most teams in the natoin would LOVE to play Kansas State and Oklahoma over USC and UCLA. The fact of the matter is that every team in the Pac-10 has a top schedule because of the conference they play in, so yes Washington's overall schedule holds water against Nebraska. Not preseason, but overall it's not something to get your panties in a bunch about. Nebraska doesn't have to worry about possible losing 8 matches in their conference because there isn't 4 teams that can win a NC year in and year out.
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Post by ay2013 on Sept 24, 2007 20:19:24 GMT -5
The Pac-10 conference (overall) is just better than any other conference. Deal with it, and stop whining. So basically you're afraid to have the Pac 10 treated the same as other conferences by the poll voters? #3 Penn State - def unranked Northwestern in 3 games. - def unranked Michigane State in 3 games. - they drop 6 points. #4 USC - def unranked Arizona in 5 games. - def unranked Arizona State in 3 games. - they drop 2 points. #5 UCLA - def unranked Arizona in 4 games. - def unranked Arizona State in 3 games. - they gain 4 points. #6 Florida - def unrankded Mississippi in 3 games. - def #22 ranked LSU in 3 games. - they drop 6 points. By Pablo rating points: 8230 Northwestern 8060 Arizona 7810 LSU 7700 Michigan State 7425 Ole Miss 7360 Arizona State Not any consistency in the AVCA poll / votes though the point differentials are small. You wanna talk about overrated?...how about Hawaii at #13 when the lost to perhaps the worst team in the Pac-10 (OSU) in straight sets? No offense to you Wahine fans but I just want to throw that out there when people are talking about the polls being so biased toward the Pac-10
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Post by Gorf on Sept 24, 2007 20:22:42 GMT -5
So basically you're afraid to have the Pac 10 treated the same as other conferences by the poll voters? ... By Pablo rating points: 8230 Northwestern 8060 Arizona 7810 LSU 7700 Michigan State 7425 Ole Miss 7360 Arizona State Not any consistency in the AVCA poll / votes though the point differentials are small. Apparently EVERYONE--the AVCA, even me--have been biased AGAINST the Pac-10 according to Pablo, who has Washington at number 1?? Go figure? Or better yet, start arguing how Pablo has MORE built-in bias for the Pac-10 than even the AVCA or me. Pablo also says the USC and UCLA played weaker teams (by 590 points) than Penn State and stronger teams than Florida by 125 points) yet the Pac 10 team teams had a more difficult time winning their matches than either Penn State or Florida and increased points more (or had smaller decreases) than both Penn State and Florida in the AVCA poll.
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Post by sideoutnow on Sept 24, 2007 20:25:59 GMT -5
Well, just like last year, come post-season I'm sure Hawaii will eliminate a Pac 10 team or two. We have a winning record against Pac-10 teams. Last year, we eliminated two in the post-season. Hawaii always has a slow start and finish very strong.
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Post by ay2013 on Sept 24, 2007 20:28:56 GMT -5
And the polls need to be changed...period. I think it should resemble a system more like the BCS standings. I understand that Texas lost to teams ranked above them, but 3 losses out of 9 matches and they are still ranked #6!?!.... Texas should be praised for playing such big names in the preseason, but they should also be punished for losing. Why not put one of those Big 10 teams with a better record ahead of Texas, for now? Talk about being fair to conferences.... when the #2 team in the Big 12 goes 6-3 gets a higher rank than the #1 team in the Big 10 with a 10-1/13-1 record that seems like more biased than placing 5 pac-10 teams in the 10 with total of 2 losses on the entire season....
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Post by sideoutnow on Sept 24, 2007 20:29:31 GMT -5
ay2013, I guarantee you if Oregon State played UH right now, the results would be completely reversed.
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Post by GatorVball on Sept 24, 2007 20:29:36 GMT -5
Gorf, you calculated the SEC totals wrong. Florida dropped 6 points(1198 to 1192), while LSU gained 27(230 to 257)
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Post by Gorf on Sept 24, 2007 20:30:20 GMT -5
You wanna talk about overrated?...how about Hawaii at #13 when the lost to perhaps the worst team in the Pac-10 (OSU) in straight sets? No offense to you Wahine fans but I just want to throw that out there when people are talking about the polls being so biased toward the Pac-10 I've not said anything about overrated or underrated I've discussed relatively similar ranked teams playing relatively similar ranked opponents with the results being treated more favorably for the Pac-10 than other conferences. Perhaps it is an anomally at this point since we're only in the 1st / 2nd week of conference play and will take additional monitoring, however, teams ranked at similar levels playing opponents ranked at at similar levels ought to be handled the same (or similar) fashion regardless of conference affiliation.
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