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Post by volleyone on Apr 20, 2009 14:27:56 GMT -5
Actually I go to most games, and alot of away games as well. As a former player, I believe I know the game fairly well also. Attacking Bourne and Dennis are obvious. THEY SHOULD NOT BE ON THE COURT! Having said that, I still don't think Troy is a great blocker. He is a great hitter, and has a good serve most of the time. Passing and blocking? I am not sure you have been to most of the games if you believe he is strong at either.
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Post by 30killspergame on Apr 20, 2009 14:46:37 GMT -5
He can't pass that well although he has improved over last year. I never claimed he was a great passer in the first place though. Blocking is better than aveage as far as the MPSF goes.
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Post by ucsdfan on Apr 20, 2009 22:25:33 GMT -5
After reading some of this nonsense I am convinced that no one here watches games. For example the imbecile who claimed that Troy can't block.. Lol.. Teams don't even set anywhere near him. They usually attack current/bourne/dennis.. They stay away from Austin and Troy but of course you wouldn't know that if you don't watch. You sure do spend a good amount of time calling people imbeciles. Have you noticed that in your ongoing disagreements about the poor coaching and learning experience for volleyball at USC, the common thread in each dispute is YOU? It's not worth reasoning with you, because either you don't get it or you are in such a neurotic sense of denial about the state of the USC program that you refuse to get it. And no matter how you try to spin things (or deflect the criticism by pointing fingers elsewhere), the facts remain as follows: USC has EVERYTHING in their favor when it comes to recruiting. Great school with a wonderful student body that for the most part balances social life and academics. An amazing home facility (best in the conference by far). Plenty of money to throw around. An alumni network that will take care of their own once a player graduates. A good volleyball history fifteen or so years ago, which helps sell the parents of recruits. Sporting events on national television showing 18 to 21 year olds partying and having fun every Saturday in the Fall. The place sells itself almost. Despite all of these advantages, they have nothing to show for it. Ferguson gets outcoached nearly every match. His players don't pick up the nuances of the game like others do. They learn the game through experience, but under the leadership of someone who should be coaching high school and club rather than D1 ball. If you have any doubt, look no further than where little Yoder went to play. He could have followed in his dad's footsteps and been a starter at OH. But he chose to play for a superior coach and now he's learning the game. Troy was an amazing freshman who has become an amazing sophomore. But, he's no better today than he was when he first arrived. If you watch players like Patak, Rooney, Anderson, Thorton, Carroll, Lotman, Holt, Klosterman, and so many others, they left college much better players than when they started. Troy has the raw talent of that group, but he won't reach his potential until he's a few years removed from USC. Last year's recruiting class for USC was the best in the nation (Zahn, Troy, McKibben, Wright, and Bourne were all suppose to be great). The year before they raved about Hunter Current (you can call up the Daily Trojan articles about the recruiting coup). Maybe they shouldn't hype their classes so much. If you look at the best players from that recruiting class (as of today at least), you'd have to put Carson Clark, Kevin Carroll, Mike Klipsch, Casey Crider, Cory Riecks, Tyler Jaynes, Spencer McLachlin, Phil Bannan, Jeff Menzel, Dennis Del Valle, Jack Polales, Joshua Walker, and Murphy Troy as the standouts so far. So despite USC having such an amazing class coming in, their top recruits of that class have fallen off pace. Who's fault is that? They certainly had ample opportunity to get court time. Polales, Clark, and Crider had to wait their turn, and they're doing great. Riecks, Jaynes, McLachlin, and Bannan have all developed well in their environment, playing much better as sophomores than they did as freshman. Klipsch and Del Valle hit the floor running and have flourished. Kevin Carroll will be a force when his shoulder is back at full strength. On the other side of the coin, Bourne and Zahn looked promising as freshman, but just have not developed. There is obviously talent there, but the system doesn't take advantage of it. A perfect example of a coach modifying the system to play to the skills of their players, is Brad Keenan at Pepperdine. He was a good MB who adapted his hitting approach to the slide (common in the woman's game) and he became a POY. If you look at the sets Kevin Wynne gets, then you'll see that many are designed to take advantage of his quickness by going for low ball deflections. He's putting up good numbers because Speraw has a system that keeps his swings mixed up. Campbell has a system in place where a freshman setter has been able to spread the ball quite well, so that his superstar can have swings against single and double blocks rather than triples. Those players have benefited immensely from smart coaching. Imagine how good Troy would be getting sets from Shoji. Think how great he'd be if he was the second option to Paul Carroll. He'd have AA numbers on the other end of Stork's sets. He should be an AA this year (probably second team), but with a different system he'd be even better. I know you are either going to resort to calling me a name of some sort or offer up some spin as to why USC underachieves. None of that changes the fact that around 8:57 this Saturday, the program will again be saying "wait until next year when we have our great recruits coming in."
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Post by volleyone on Apr 20, 2009 22:40:25 GMT -5
I think I've said it before, but I will again. UCSDfan is BRILLIANT. Another PERFECT example of SC's program is CJ. He was player of the year in high school, is 6 ft whatever, a great athlete, and what happened? They never even let him play after the beginning of his junior year. For what it's worth, I talked to Speraw about it offline. He agrees....what they did to CJ is unforgivable. They never played him again, not even once, and put their b.s. in instead who played far worse. Even UCLA's schizophrenic style would not do this. And why? Because they were convinced, that Bourne or Dennis would save their day. Next year it will be someone else.
The fact of the matter is that Bill was always a lousy coach. Never a winner at anything. But, a nice guy for the most part. Luck carried him to SC. But, it won't last. That is for sure.
Does anything else need to be said about this program? I think not...Any more excuses???
I am just waiting.
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Post by notsocal2 on Apr 20, 2009 23:26:27 GMT -5
usdfan and volleyone - good posts ... a couple of things ... interesting point on yoder - never thought about that and with all the talent an uci wondering where he will fit in longer term there ... maybe should head over to usc to get more ptime - unlikely but a thought .... but in the end usc is now 4-5 whereas the past few years they have been near the bottom - so lets at least give the group some credit for better recruiting, as it brought them a ways up he ladder
Id also have to say the usc setter mckibben needs to be added to the list of significant talents from the class of a few years ago - which by the way had a bunch of setters - where does alex s fit in these days - could he compete next year at ucla ... what ever happened to the pacific setters - they had 2 freshman last year and the ucsb setter devany is from that group too, not to mention joe k - backing up in byu and playing on the usa team ... there may be others too
Also - what about caldwell at ucla - thought he had a chance to set as well - is this an option? heck they have wade playing outside - why not - that place seems to have a different line up every few weeks - "Al - get a grip on things !!!"
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Post by ucsdfan on Apr 21, 2009 2:39:02 GMT -5
usdfan and volleyone - good posts ... a couple of things ... interesting point on yoder - never thought about that and with all the talent an uci wondering where he will fit in longer term there ... maybe should head over to usc to get more ptime - unlikely but a thought .... but in the end usc is now 4-5 whereas the past few years they have been near the bottom - so lets at least give the group some credit for better recruiting, as it brought them a ways up he ladder Id also have to say the usc setter mckibben needs to be added to the list of significant talents from the class of a few years ago - which by the way had a bunch of setters - where does alex s fit in these days - could he compete next year at ucla ... what ever happened to the pacific setters - they had 2 freshman last year and the ucsb setter devany is from that group too, not to mention joe k - backing up in byu and playing on the usa team ... there may be others too Also - what about caldwell at ucla - thought he had a chance to set as well - is this an option? heck they have wade playing outside - why not - that place seems to have a different line up every few weeks - "Al - get a grip on things !!!" McKibben is on the fence I'd say. He has great setter hands (much like Wade). But in the few games I saw him play this year, he didn't spread the ball wisely. His stats make him look like he spreads it around (one for Troy, one for someone else, one for Troy, one for someone else...), but he kept going to the same guy repeatedly until he found someone new to set several balls to. Granted, he was chasing a few more balls than you'd hope, but even when there was a good pass he seemed predictable. I'll be interested in seeing how Scattareggia does once he gets some court time. I thought he'd be very good, but with Al you just never know. If nothing else, he's got a great 70's mustache going that would work well with Watten's if he transferred to LBSU. I was surprised not to see Staks back setting for Pacific. I thought he did pretty well for a freshman last year. Did he transfer back to a school closer to home? Isn't Kauliakamoa from the class one before the setter rich one? I think he's a red shirt sophomore this year. He's stuck behind Yamil Perez, who started to blossom in the second half of the season. With a hot setter and a burning itch to play in the NCAA tourney, BYU might surprise some people. CSUN is susceptible to taking teams lightly and losing (see Hawai'i twice, LBSU, and almost UCSD), so they could head home early at BYU's expense. I wonder what will become of Caldwell. I thought he would be something great, as apparently so did Al. The biggest problem I saw in his game is that he doesn't have the hops necessary to make it at the D1 level right now, at least not at Oppo. Hopefully he can develop some springs. If not, I would think rather than trying to make him a setter they should make him a power forward. Howland took Diefenbach and McKinney from Al, and they sure could use a tough bigman. Maybe Caldwell will be playing in Pauley for bigger crowds, trying to live up to his grandfather's legacy.
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Post by notsocal2 on Apr 21, 2009 11:51:32 GMT -5
ucsdfan - you are a wealth of info - this is good stuff. Will agree to disagree on mckibben, he's there, ... i've seen joe k - he also is good, so a battle w/ the incumbant makes sense, and tough to replace a winning team. Heck he's still on team USA w/ Crider and Stork, so that I'd have to believe says something - and i don't think its just because pashal is the usa coach .... the alex s player comment is hilarious - I'd say he has a shot to battle ker next year, if for no other reason that scates is still there and musical chairs are the in thing, and hey why not put caldwell in the loop --- as I recall all were outstanding club players ... also surprised not to see the pacific player return - i heard rumor he's hurt - he had a respectable year, not flashy, but put up a great ball and I think also played on the USA team w/ crider and joe k, which always says something ... on a related setter story - what ever happened to the petersen player, now at pepp - thought he was a classic winder-type who really had a chance for impact --- one more - what ever happened to the morehouse player? was at hawaii, they are losing a setter - is he red-shirting for next year?
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Post by bunnywailer on Apr 21, 2009 12:05:28 GMT -5
--- one more - what ever happened to the morehouse player? was at hawaii, they are losing a setter - is he red-shirting for next year? Hawaii newspaper reported sometime before the season started that Morehouse couldn't make the conditioning requirements of the program and left the team.
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Post by cheeseburger on Apr 22, 2009 14:48:34 GMT -5
anyone else ever notice, when "30" makes one of his "intelligent" posts & then gets ripped by guys on the board with real knowledge, that he just disappears from that thread like a can of whoop-ass was opened on him? lol
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Post by turk182 on Apr 22, 2009 17:54:14 GMT -5
Isn't this Ferguson's 3rd year only? Isn't it a little premature to say his recruiting classes (2) haven't panned out?
Some could say it is clearly a sign the program is getting better when players that started previously are no longer good enough.
The Yoder debacle might have something to do with Turhan. Maybe Hawks could expand on that one... If anybody wants to do their homework instead of believing everything that is put in writing.
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Post by vballfan on Apr 22, 2009 18:05:24 GMT -5
First of all cheesburger is on the money. Second of all it might be his third year as head coach, but I believe he was assistant, aka running the program under Turhan for his last year there. No one is saying that there is an issue with the recruits, they are obviously good recruits. The issue is: do they get better as the season goes on? are they well coached? are they better players now than before they arrived? The answer seems to be consistent, except for 30 kills, who is arguably brain dead. Losing to Hawaii, UCSD and even UCLA says it all. Not changing the line up AT ALL, after 5 of 6 season ending losses says it all. Leaving the "black hole" of Bourne and Dennis says it all, when the bench is that deep.
Do you really think another year is going to make a great deal of difference?
I for one seriously doubt it.
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Post by turk182 on Apr 22, 2009 18:36:27 GMT -5
Sounds like you know alot about the program and the bench. Maybe you are a disgruntled asst of ferguson's?
Another question... Does a loss always equal outcoached? Or does that only apply to USC's losses?
I don't think I have read about another coach getting outcoached after a loss.
And yes, vballfan, I agree. cheeseburger is clearly a genius.
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Post by vballfan on Apr 22, 2009 19:22:08 GMT -5
Sorry, I am a former player/coach and fan. In response to your second question I am factoring in the fact that the losses have happened at the end of the season when the strategy and game plan is so obvious. Also, I have watched him at the club level as well and observed similar weaknesses. He's inflexible and not that bright, although I agree that he seems like a nice guy. I also question whether given the expense of running the program the AD may consider canning it entirely if the situation doesn't improve. SC likes winning teams. Tied for 5th in the MPSF after bragging about the last 3 years of recruiting classes is not a great record from my point of view, nor I am sure from the AD', particularly given the resources of the university, facilities, etc.
If the losses were isolated, I'd probably be less critical. I was not critical of the losses to CSUN, Pepp or UCI, even though I believe they have better and more experienced coaches. It was the losses to UCSD, Hawaii and UCLA that put me over the edge personally. I also saw the UCLA and UCSD games and realized that the coaching staff cannot or choses not to change ANYTHING when it isn't working...hard to believe.
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Post by turk182 on Apr 22, 2009 21:46:13 GMT -5
As a player/coach and especially a fan, you would/should be smarter than to even mention an AD dropping volleyball. The lowest member of the intercollegiate athletic food chain, men's volleyball would become extinct at the D1 level with the loss of another program.
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Post by notsocal2 on Apr 22, 2009 23:06:29 GMT -5
Survey says USC staff gets another year or two. Based on where they were for a number of years moving up to a 4-5 is not bad ... although I don't see much rocket science going on ... the disaster that I see in the works is UCLA - if you want to look at direction of programs. Hey at least USC is getting players and is competing - more that you could say for some of the others. And hats of to UCSD, they also seemed have turned things around nicely - and mathematically had a shot at end of year. I'm hoping Hawaii rebounds a little - they need a setter (and a coach), but I'm confident they will. Same w/ Pacific - they've hit a few bad years, and hopefully they come back and compete - they will never be a powerhouse, but a few years ago w/ Tamas, Dauburs and others they were a dangerous and exciting group .... I've been a little surprised w/ UCSB - really think Menzel is special player (not Patek - but not many Pateks - although Carroll is probably there), the middles are OK, somehow I think they deserve a few more w's than they've had .... By the way - the shibuya idea for Hawaii sounds interesting - what ever happened in Juniata anyway - sounds like everyone likes this guy, but as I recall they had some type of violation or something, and somehow next thing you know he is out in Stanford
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