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Post by SaltNPepper on Nov 11, 2009 15:28:02 GMT -5
Ok, the way I understand it, the committee is charged with creating a bracket that requires the least number of flights. So it seems logical that once they have the 64 team field selected and the 16 top seeds, they then would look at each of the 64 teams and determine how many (non-conference) teams were within 400 miles (if that is flight distance threshold) of each of those teams. Also, for seeded teams, they wouldn't count other seeded teams within 400 miles in this number since they wouldn't be placed in the same sub-regional. Some seeded teams could possibly have 3 teams close, others could be 2 and some 1 and a few 0. Then I think they would assign "Hosting" to the seeded teams that have the most close teams, by assigning them unseeded teams that don't have any close teams. They would continue working down from those seeded teams with 3 unseeded teams close to those with 2 and finally 1. And the teams that would be assigned from farther away would work up from the 0's to the 1's and so on. There will be some unseeded teams that are within 400 miles of several seeded teams, so there will be some manipulation as they go through this process to minimize additional flights on a subsequent sub-regional. I would think that as they go through this process, they would start with the highest seeded in each grouping and work themselves through that group's lowest seeded team. During this process, the number of "close" teams that are available to the teams that have not yet been assign, could be dropping if an unseeded team was close to more than one seeded team. Depending upon who's in the tournament, at some point, they may get to where they have a pocket of 3 unseeded teams and a seeded team with no one close (like a Hawaii) and they could make that a sub-regional where they move the seeded team. What we really need to know to do this, is what school have bid to host a sub-regional. Without that information, I really don't see how one could even guess at doing a bracket the way the selection committee would do it. Note: I just reread what I wrote a couple times, and I'm not sure I even understand it, so if it doesn't make sense to you, don't ask me.
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Post by hammer on Nov 11, 2009 15:31:04 GMT -5
You know, sometimes volleyball people ask me what I think about tournament hopes and stuff like that. My response is, "I don't have a clue." I usually don't bother trying to predict what the committee will do, except in obvious cases. I will comment on things that I know the committee has or hasn't done, but even then, that doesn't mean much in the future. Yes ditto, that committee can go where the sun doesn't shine for all I care. Some years they do an ok job, but other years the only obvious conclusion is, "What were they thinking?"
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Post by BearClause on Nov 12, 2009 13:42:56 GMT -5
I know small schools have limited travel budgets, but I would rather see more balance in the brackets. The average RPI in the Ft. Collins bracket was *10* points lower than any other (41.2, 51.2, 53.2, 57.6). The average ranking per bracket varied from 14.4 to 21.5. Would a school actually turn down a bid based on travel distance? That shouldn't matter for the NCAA Tournament. All air travel for NCAA Tournaments is directly paid for by the NCAA through their travel agent (Short's Travel of Waterloo, IA). Ground travel and hotels are reimbursed. www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/a2929e004e29580c8d38bd9565dafefc/D1+policies.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=a2929e004e29580c8d38bd9565dafefcIf it's under 400 miles, then ground transportation is paid for by the NCAA. It's $3000 + $1.25 per mile. Depending on where the bus is rented and how far it is, I could see the athletic dept coming out ahead based on flat rates. Apparently transportation between the hotel and competition/practice site is paid for by the school. That's pretty much what most schools would do for any away competition anyways. If they've already got a bus/driver hired, I don't see why they couldn't simply use that for local transportation. I don't think they would get mileage though.
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Post by baywatcher on Nov 12, 2009 19:13:37 GMT -5
As usual BearClause has provided very useful and accurate information. Again, I have worked on analyzing the last 8 tournaments and come up with some averages. As was pointed out, however, by myself and others an exercise in futility since we do not know the sites of the subregionals, as are available in basketball. Therefor the entire exercise is a huge guess and not worth a lot of trouble. But some trouble. Many of the conference tournaments will be over by November 22 and things will get together then. Rich Kern has a handy feature to his website where you can see if certain schools fit within the 400 miles. However, he does not have every school listed, so mapquest is going to be required. Again, a meaningless exercise until the 64 teams get closer to being established.
Some background facts:
Over the last 8 years, the Pac 10 and Big 10 have had the highest average selections, 51 each for an average of 6.37, about. The Big 12 was right behind with 49, or about 6.12. 5 or 6 seems about right for the Big 10 and Big 12 this year, and looking like the Pac 10 number too unless WSU or USC starts getting some wins. The WCC and SEC have averaged 4 a year. That seems about right for the SEC this year, 1 and perhaps 2 high for the WCC. The WAC will probably only get 1, the Big West, which has averaged over 3, will only get 2, possibly 3 bids. The weekend should help, will spell out the cases for the at large teams then.
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Post by BearClause on Nov 12, 2009 19:32:59 GMT -5
The travel doc is a fun read....
I'd just note that the NCAA essentially subsidizes long distance travel for all NCAA Tournaments in all sports. The NCAA pretty much has two big revenue sources in the D-I men's basketball tournament and (to a lesser extent) the D-I women's basketball tournament. I've heard that ESPN televising several NCAA championships is a requirement of the contract for the D-I women's basketball tournament.
If you read the NCAA D-I Tournament travel policies, there seems to be a cutoff for air/ground transportation. It's basically 400+ miles and they'll spring for air travel, or between 25-400 miles and they'll reimburse $3000 plus mileage plus mileage. I recall last year St Mary's came to Cal's subregional. If I'm reading this correctly, they wouldn't get reimbursed for the bus ride although they're still eligible for the hotel rooms and per diem for their traveling party.
They supposedly don't pay for "local transportation" such as to/from the hotel to practice or competition sites. They do apparently cover transportation from an airport's "metropolitan area" if it's more than 50 miles from the competition site, or from the school to the airport if they have to use air travel.
It gets really complicated how they reimburse the host team. Apparently if the dining facilities are open, they get half standard per diem, or full if they're not. I could see some host sites where dorms and dining commons have closed.
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Post by edburby on Nov 12, 2009 19:39:32 GMT -5
Why would you have Long Beach State host 1st/2nd round, when there is a seeded team, UCLA just 25 miles up the road. You could easily put Long Beach State, San Diego, and another random team from outside the area, at UCLA. Then, send Hawaii to Dayton. Agreed. UCLA will host. USC may also host - if they can upset Washington this weekend. There are a lot of school in Southern California that need to play, and these schools have the means to host, and can probably draw the best crowds - all things considered.
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Post by BearClause on Nov 12, 2009 20:35:03 GMT -5
Sometimes I don't exactly get the criteria for a non-seed hosting. There are some infamous ones, like Florida A&M back in (was it) 2004. That year I remember Cal getting it when St Mary's had the seed. Duke got it in 2007 when Cal was the seeded team. They sort of give a borderline seed the shaft and allow a borderline unseeded team the chance to host. Of course part of it has to do with facilities (quality and availability)
I don't see USC being seeded this season. What other SoCal team is likely to be a seed? Unless there's a bunch of SoCal teams (7-8) making the NCAA Tournament, with they have two host sites in Southern California?
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