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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2011 15:00:01 GMT -5
idk, aa...
back when hendrix, joplin, morrison, et al died as they did, my parents and i think many others took the time to make it clear that the lifestyle those artists led directly led to their way-too-early deaths. and they used the moment to make their point rather than sitting on it for a while.
are you suggesting that it is somehow inappropriate to point this out, at a most relevant time to have an impact?
has our desire for "sensitivity" and "tolerance" really taken us that far?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2011 18:38:32 GMT -5
idk, aa... back when hendrix, joplin, morrison, et al died as they did, my parents and i think many others took the time to make it clear that the lifestyle those artists led directly led to their way-too-early deaths. and they used the moment to make their point rather than sitting on it for a while. are you suggesting that it is somehow inappropriate to point this out, at a most relevant time to have an impact? has our desire for "sensitivity" and "tolerance" really taken us that far? If you really think that the day of the death of a young woman is the appropriate time to get a message across, or the appropriate time to berate her for her unhealthy lifestyle, I feel bad for you. Tolerance and sensitivity are beautiful qualities and you're referencing them like they're sins. Using someone's death to make an "impact..." That's the real sin. No respect for your fellow man. It's clear why she died. Everyone knows the reason and knows the struggles she faced. However, the people who feel the need to constantly reinforce this fact or make jokes about it on the very day that she died are pathetic. Like I said: get a life.
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Post by mikegarrison on Jul 27, 2011 19:20:28 GMT -5
This was not a car accident, or an unpreventable medical illness/disease that caused this young lady's life to end. This was a result of blatant drug abuse! Although the world has lost a very talented singer, the world also needs to acknowledge that it was her choice to continue in the dangerous lifestyle. But what was the root cause? This level of drug impairment and damage, this young, strongly suggests to me an underlying mental health issue. As with many things in life, sometimes what are simply "bad choices" for some people are much more difficult to deal with for other people. My impression of things is that she may have had some pretty severe self-destructive impulses, and that the drugs were only the mechanism she used to achieve that, not the source of the problem. But that's just a guess.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2011 21:31:37 GMT -5
idk, aa... back when hendrix, joplin, morrison, et al died as they did, my parents and i think many others took the time to make it clear that the lifestyle those artists led directly led to their way-too-early deaths. and they used the moment to make their point rather than sitting on it for a while. are you suggesting that it is somehow inappropriate to point this out, at a most relevant time to have an impact? has our desire for "sensitivity" and "tolerance" really taken us that far? If you really think that the day of the death of a young woman is the appropriate time to get a message across, or the appropriate time to berate her for her unhealthy lifestyle, I feel bad for you. Tolerance and sensitivity are beautiful qualities and you're referencing them like they're sins. Using someone's death to make an "impact..." That's the real sin. No respect for your fellow man. It's clear why she died. Everyone knows the reason and knows the struggles she faced. However, the people who feel the need to constantly reinforce this fact or make jokes about it on the very day that she died are pathetic. Like I said: get a life. now you're just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, aa. i don't believe my comment was made on the date of her death. and i don't consider my mom and dad pathetic for pointing out to me, on the day hendrix died, that i probably wouldn't want to emulate him. nor do i consider them intolerant or insensitive for doing so. do you? they were pointing out the foolishness of self-destruction to their son. what you label intolerant, i call love...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2011 21:53:54 GMT -5
If you really think that the day of the death of a young woman is the appropriate time to get a message across, or the appropriate time to berate her for her unhealthy lifestyle, I feel bad for you. Tolerance and sensitivity are beautiful qualities and you're referencing them like they're sins. Using someone's death to make an "impact..." That's the real sin. No respect for your fellow man. It's clear why she died. Everyone knows the reason and knows the struggles she faced. However, the people who feel the need to constantly reinforce this fact or make jokes about it on the very day that she died are pathetic. Like I said: get a life. now you're just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, aa. i don't believe my comment was made on the date of her death. and i don't consider my mom and dad pathetic for pointing out to me, on the day hendrix died, that i probably wouldn't want to emulate him. nor do i consider them intolerant or insensitive for doing so. do you? they were pointing out the foolishness of self-destruction to their son. what you label intolerant, i call love... The comments made on this thread and the jokes made all over the world... those were made in the name of love? Get real. And your scenario is ridiculous. If all your parents did was say, "Son, it's probably not a good idea to emulate Hendrix," then no, they are not pathetic. If they chose to log onto a forum just to voice their negative opinions on the manner of his death, then yes. They're pathetic and need to GET A LIFE.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2011 21:54:32 GMT -5
This was not a car accident, or an unpreventable medical illness/disease that caused this young lady's life to end. This was a result of blatant drug abuse! Although the world has lost a very talented singer, the world also needs to acknowledge that it was her choice to continue in the dangerous lifestyle. But what was the root cause? This level of drug impairment and damage, this young, strongly suggests to me an underlying mental health issue. Yeah, it's called ADDICTION.
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Post by mikegarrison on Jul 27, 2011 21:59:48 GMT -5
They're pathetic and need to GET A LIFE. Dude, you're the last person who should be making this comment....
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Post by OptimusPrime on Jul 27, 2011 23:18:33 GMT -5
This was not a car accident, or an unpreventable medical illness/disease that caused this young lady's life to end. This was a result of blatant drug abuse! Although the world has lost a very talented singer, the world also needs to acknowledge that it was her choice to continue in the dangerous lifestyle. But what was the root cause? This level of drug impairment and damage, this young, strongly suggests to me an underlying mental health issue. As with many things in life, sometimes what are simply "bad choices" for some people are much more difficult to deal with for other people. My impression of things is that she may have had some pretty severe self-destructive impulses, and that the drugs were only the mechanism she used to achieve that, not the source of the problem. But that's just a guess. Possibly... +1
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2011 0:34:01 GMT -5
They're pathetic and need to GET A LIFE. Dude, you're the last person who should be making this comment.... Nahhh.
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Post by USAFAN on Jul 28, 2011 11:48:15 GMT -5
idk, aa... back when hendrix, joplin, morrison, et al died as they did, my parents and i think many others took the time to make it clear that the lifestyle those artists led directly led to their way-too-early deaths. and they used the moment to make their point rather than sitting on it for a while. are you suggesting that it is somehow inappropriate to point this out, at a most relevant time to have an impact? has our desire for "sensitivity" and "tolerance" really taken us that far? I don't think it has anything to do with tolerance. Winehouse nor any of the people you mentioned were advocating their lifestyle as an ideal or asking anyone to tolerate them. I'm sure they all knew the potential consequences of their behavior and they've had to suffer them. As a parent I'd much rather suggest to my child that we're responsible for our personal decisions and must suffer the consequences for those decisions the other 364 days of the year as opposed to relying on death or other tragedy to emphasize my point. Making a point out of tragedy at what you consider the "most relevant time" I find to be inappropriate. Did your parents explain the details and struggles of addiction? Were they knowledgeable about the "lifestyles" of these celebrities other than what they read in magazines? Highly doubt it. If using celebrity behavior as a talking point in your guide to raising a child I'd question your parenting skills.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2011 12:26:48 GMT -5
it's been one of many talking points, usa.
i've got three pretty well-adjusted kids, i think.
and i'm sure i'm not the only parent using the examples set by people in the public eye -- including celebs -- to make a point or two to my kids...
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Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Jul 28, 2011 14:38:54 GMT -5
Her lifestyle may not have been orthodox, but let's remember that a young woman died. Have some respect. Thank you!! She had a disease, one that takes thousands of lives each year. But for the grace of God go I. +5
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Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Jul 28, 2011 15:10:42 GMT -5
+2 This was not a car accident, or an unpreventable medical illness/disease that caused this young lady's life to end. This was a result of blatant drug abuse! Although the world has lost a very talented singer, the world also needs to acknowledge that it was her choice to continue in the dangerous lifestyle. She ignored advise and refused the interventions made by those close to her. I for one refuse to respect the choices made by her and do not want my teenage kids or players to idolize such a person. I feel sad for her family and friends and the fact that they will most likely continue to always question themselves. "could I have done more?...maybe she would be alive". This is the true tragedy!!!! You're wrong in that it was, in fact a medical illness/disease. It's called alcoholism/drug addiction. Now if you don't believe that, do a little research. I think I know a bit about it as I've been sober for 31 years and believe me while I was using, I most likely abused drugs and drink much more excessively that did AW. I also have worked in the field of substance abuse for much of my adult life. No while I may be fairly low in the pecking order of VB knowledge compared to many on here, I would consider myself an expert on this subject. Having said that, you are correct in saying she made poor choices. My point is that had she not had the disease she had, she would not have been faced with making them. Did I have the same choices when I got sober? Absolutely. But while not patting myself on the back, I was extremely lucky to have stayed sober on my first attempt. That is rare and I take very little credit for that, but give props for having an outstanding support system to help. Did Amy have access to a similar support system? I don't know for sure but my guess would be that she did. The thing is, alcoholism and drug addiction is, IN FACT, a mental illness that affects everyone differently. Some people realize they have a problem and take the necessary steps to solve those problems without an abundance of negative effects in their life. Some might have to lose their family, jobs, health, freedom before they figure it out. I was somewhere in between. IT IS A MENTAL ILLNESS! A logical thought process is often absent while in the depths of addiction and is even absent once one sobers up if one doesn't continue to address their addictive personality. The bottom line is that she was a very sick young lady who obviously made a plethora of poor choices in her life. I am not saying anyone should hold her up as a martyr. I just wish people would pull their head out of their ass before making such uninformed statements. And believe me, Amy wouldn't have wanted you to feel sorry for her any more than her family and friends do now that she's gone. They would however, like a little understanding regarding the root problem of her life, that being the DISEASE of alcoholism and drug addiction. If anyone wants to gain a better understanding of how the addictive process works, watch the movie MY NAME IS BILL W. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Name_is_Bill_W. There is a very poignant scene when Bill has just been released from the hospital for the umpteenth time and is explaining to his wife that while intellectually he can see all the harm his choices are doing to himself, his family, friends and how it adversely affects his whole life, what he really wants at that moment more than anything, is another drink. Now would a sane person think that way? MENTAL ILLNESS.
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Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Jul 28, 2011 15:15:23 GMT -5
To mikegarrison and All-American #11. As someone who has seen countless stories similar to that of AW, I just want to express my gratitude for the understanding and compassion you've shown with your comments in this thread. That's all
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Post by OptimusPrime on Jul 28, 2011 21:35:52 GMT -5
+2 This was not a car accident, or an unpreventable medical illness/disease that caused this young lady's life to end. This was a result of blatant drug abuse! Although the world has lost a very talented singer, the world also needs to acknowledge that it was her choice to continue in the dangerous lifestyle. She ignored advise and refused the interventions made by those close to her. I for one refuse to respect the choices made by her and do not want my teenage kids or players to idolize such a person. I feel sad for her family and friends and the fact that they will most likely continue to always question themselves. "could I have done more?...maybe she would be alive". This is the true tragedy!!!! <deleted> I just wish people would pull their head out of their ass before making such uninformed statements. <deleted> That is just rude and uncalled for.... And clearly this hits a little too close to home for some, rendering them incapable of having an objective discussion And I disagree with you assuming we are uninformed... & we will leave it at that....
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