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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2011 23:10:40 GMT -5
<deleted> I just wish people would pull their head out of their ass before making such uninformed statements. <deleted> That is just rude and uncalled for.... And clearly this hits a little too close to home for some, rendering them incapable of having an objective discussion And I disagree with you assuming we are uninformed... & we will leave it at that.... It's not rude. You're an ass if you believe what you wrote. Blatant disrespect for human life. It's pathetic and you should be ashamed. Oh, and by the way, I LOVE how you used the rolling-eyes emoticon (just to reinforce your depraved lack of tact and respect) in your sentence about how the issue of drug-related addiction and death might be a sore subject for some of the posters on this thread. Very classy. Don't let compassion get in your way of being completely ignorant.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2011 23:12:01 GMT -5
idk, aa... back when hendrix, joplin, morrison, et al died as they did, my parents and i think many others took the time to make it clear that the lifestyle those artists led directly led to their way-too-early deaths. and they used the moment to make their point rather than sitting on it for a while. are you suggesting that it is somehow inappropriate to point this out, at a most relevant time to have an impact? has our desire for "sensitivity" and "tolerance" really taken us that far? I don't think it has anything to do with tolerance. Winehouse nor any of the people you mentioned were advocating their lifestyle as an ideal or asking anyone to tolerate them. I'm sure they all knew the potential consequences of their behavior and they've had to suffer them. As a parent I'd much rather suggest to my child that we're responsible for our personal decisions and must suffer the consequences for those decisions the other 364 days of the year as opposed to relying on death or other tragedy to emphasize my point. Making a point out of tragedy at what you consider the "most relevant time" I find to be inappropriate. Did your parents explain the details and struggles of addiction? Were they knowledgeable about the "lifestyles" of these celebrities other than what they read in magazines? Highly doubt it. If using celebrity behavior as a talking point in your guide to raising a child I'd question your parenting skills. Well said. I applaud you.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2011 23:15:00 GMT -5
To mikegarrison and All-American #11. As someone who has seen countless stories similar to that of AW, I just want to express my gratitude for the understanding and compassion you've shown with your comments in this thread. That's all No need to thank me. It should be expected to exhibit a little respect and kindness in the time of a fellow person's death. USAFAN did a pretty nice job too.
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Post by OptimusPrime on Jul 28, 2011 23:18:12 GMT -5
That is just rude and uncalled for.... And clearly this hits a little too close to home for some, rendering them incapable of having an objective discussion And I disagree with you assuming we are uninformed... & we will leave it at that.... It's not rude. You're an ass if you believe what you wrote. Blatant disrespect for human life. It's pathetic and you should be ashamed. Oh, and by the way, I LOVE how you used the rolling-eyes emoticon (just to reinforce your depraved lack of tact and respect) in your sentence about how the issue of drug-related addiction and death might be a sore subject for some of the posters on this thread. Very classy. Don't let compassion get in your way of being completely ignorant. Thanks for making a great point. Classy as always.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2011 8:08:29 GMT -5
Having said that, you are correct in saying she made poor choices. My point is that had she not had the disease she had, she would not have been faced with making them. i have to disagree with this, husker. many people do not have an addiction problem, but still have to face the choice of whether to repeatedly indulge or not. i have no way of knowing whether amy exhibited addictive behavior prior to her choosing to drink and medicate herself. but most people who make the initial choice to do these things do not have this disease, yet are definitely faced with making this choice. even people with a disease bear responsibility for their choices, unless insanity is involved. as a society we are quick to absolve people of their personal responsibility. i agree that at a certain point an addict can become literally incapable of turning away from their addiction. but i also believe that is a process, and early on it is easier to turn away, but the person chooses not to do so. the pivot point, of course, is different for different people. it can even be the very first time for some. but that is not true, i believe, for most. and during the time before the pivot point, the person is absolutely responsible for each choice to indulge. bottom line: addicts still make the choice to indulge the first time. and they are absolutely responsible for that choice. and i know too, husker. i went a fair way down that road too...
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Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Jul 30, 2011 12:37:30 GMT -5
<deleted> I just wish people would pull their head out of their ass before making such uninformed statements. <deleted> That is just rude and uncalled for.... And clearly this hits a little too close to home for some, rendering them incapable of having an objective discussion And I disagree with you assuming we are uninformed... & we will leave it at that.... Nice that you deleted all that would give what remained of my statement proper context.
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Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Jul 30, 2011 13:06:12 GMT -5
Having said that, you are correct in saying she made poor choices. My point is that had she not had the disease she had, she would not have been faced with making them. i have to disagree with this, husker. many people do not have an addiction problem, but still have to face the choice of whether to repeatedly indulge or not. i have no way of knowing whether amy exhibited addictive behavior prior to her choosing to drink and medicate herself. but most people who make the initial choice to do these things do not have this disease, yet are definitely faced with making this choice. even people with a disease bear responsibility for their choices, unless insanity is involved. as a society we are quick to absolve people of their personal responsibility. i agree that at a certain point an addict can become literally incapable of turning away from their addiction. but i also believe that is a process, and early on it is easier to turn away, but the person chooses not to do so. the pivot point, of course, is different for different people. it can even be the very first time for some. but that is not true, i believe, for most. and during the time before the pivot point, the person is absolutely responsible for each choice to indulge. bottom line: addicts still make the choice to indulge the first time. and they are absolutely responsible for that choice. and i know too, husker. i went a fair way down that road too... Step two of Alcoholics Anonymous; "Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity." Why would there be a need to be "restored to sanity" unless one was insane, at least as it pertains to their drug of choice? And your wrong about people who don't have an addiction having to make a choice whether to indulge or not. They don't think like addicts do. An example of my point. Pyromania. I have never in my life had to restrain myself from setting a inappropriate fire to something. Have you? I doubt so. Does that mean I've NEVER set fire to anything? No it does not. I use fire when necessary for socially acceptable reasons only. It's not a choice I struggle with any more than most people struggle with habitually abusing drugs/alcohol. People have sometimes ask me over the years if I wished I could have just one beer or one glass of wine. My answer has always been and will always be a resounding NO! Even when I was still using I NEVER wanted to just have one of ANYTHING. I was NOT a social drinker and could never BE a social drinker an the thought of having just one has NEVER appealed to me. I used for one reason only; as a means to escape all of my life problems, real or imagined. I used to loss touch with reality. One drink was not going to help me toward that end. Would anyone call that "sane thinking?"
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Post by holidayhusker on Jul 30, 2011 20:58:57 GMT -5
xuscvbfan- I agree with your opinion on this. Respecting a person in death is one thing but we need to discuss openly the horrible choices that led to this death. Winehouse was a public persona and influenced a great deal of young fans. Unfortunately her influence with the exception of her music was disastrous. Lets stop putting people on pedestals just because they are celebrities. That is one of their downfalls because everyone wants a piece of the action whether it be money or fame,..... and they refuses to be truthful with these celebrities. Case in point....Michael Jackson.
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Post by bbk on Jul 30, 2011 21:02:20 GMT -5
I am sorry many say she was ill but I do not have to feel sorry for her. It is unfortunate but maybe some others who may also be in these straits may take necessary steps to get the help they may need in the future.
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Post by TheSantaBarbarian on Jul 31, 2011 0:34:32 GMT -5
"bottom line: addicts still make the choice to indulge the first time. and they are absolutely responsible for that choice.
and i know too, husker. i went a fair way down that road too..."
That explains some things at least.
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Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Jul 31, 2011 1:49:44 GMT -5
There is a saying that many recovering alcoholics are familiar with. "First the man takes the drink. Then the drink takes the drink. Then the drink takes the man." NO ONE KNOWS the first time they drink that whether or not the have the genetic disposition that may lead that to substance abuse.
And HH. I don't know of anyone on this thread who has put AW on a pedestal and from what I've read, the immediate cause of her death has yet to be determined. Here is some information regarding some speculation as to the cause, but nothing has been substantiated at this point.
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Post by elevationvb on Jul 31, 2011 12:30:23 GMT -5
Keith Richards' autobiography, "Life" is an excellent, detailed, honest detailing of his drug use and others around his circle. Excellent discussion of its impact on his career, personal relationships, etc.
Don't think many would have predicted back in the day that Richards would still be around in 2011 and continuing to rock.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2011 7:31:15 GMT -5
"bottom line: addicts still make the choice to indulge the first time. and they are absolutely responsible for that choice. and i know too, husker. i went a fair way down that road too..." That explains some things at least. lol -- ;D
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