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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2012 15:19:56 GMT -5
I want to see The Social Network again just so I can remember what Rooney Mara looks like.
I'm reading the 2nd book. I've found myself interested in what happens to Salander -- plus I want to see if there's more to this series than what was in the first book. So far, I like it better than Agatha Christie's Island of the Nazi Sadists.
Or maybe I'm just a hypocrite. That's always a distinct possibility.
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 13, 2012 15:27:55 GMT -5
I want to see The Social Network again just so I can remember what Rooney Mara looks like. I'm reading the 2nd book. I've found myself interested in what happens to Salander -- plus I want to see if there's more to this series than what was in the first book. So far, I like it better than Agatha Christie's Island of the Nazi Sadists. Or maybe I'm just a hypocrite. That's always a distinct possibility. Be careful about being too invested in what happens to Salander. It's not all fun and games, to say the least.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2012 15:36:22 GMT -5
Has it been fun and games at all?
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 13, 2012 15:56:26 GMT -5
Has it been fun and games at all? There was the bit where she transfers many millions of dollars from illegal accounts into her own untraceable accounts and spends time traveling the world and living in beach resorts. That sounds fun.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2012 16:37:30 GMT -5
She's a very sad character. No angel, by any means. But sympathetic.
Which is part of the reason I'm still reading.
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Post by truffleshuffle on Jan 13, 2012 19:23:54 GMT -5
The world in the Twilight movies does not exist either. I think. (I also think it makes perfect sense.) the horrible things that happen in dragon tattoo happen in real life. or are you suggesting that rape, murder, s&m, human trafficking and extortion are made-up fantasies?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2012 20:47:05 GMT -5
**RESPONSE CONTAINS SPOILERS**
I am suggesting that the Island of Nazi Perverts is something that does not exist in real life -- and is a preposterous (and pornographic) invention.
I am also suggesting that every other Scandinavian is not a serial killer, but I could be wrong.
Seriously, the guy built a torture chamber in his basement! Continuing, no less, the exploits of his father, the son of a Nazi sadist (in a family of Nazi sadists).
Furthermore, it was apparent to me from the get go that Harriet could have been smuggled off the island the day after the accident -- and that she was very likely still alive.
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Post by truffleshuffle on Jan 13, 2012 22:49:26 GMT -5
I am suggesting that the Island of Nazi Perverts is something that does not exist in real life -- and is a preposterous (and pornographic) invention. the father and son were horrible. that's it. no other characters on the island were sadist murderers. and i have to say, the part about it not existing in real life - the book is fiction. that's where people make up stories about people and things that don't exist in real life. as far as i know, there is no island of nazi perverts in real life. however, there are still nazi sympathizers, there are still rapists and sadists and murderers. but they may not live on an island in sweden, so you're right, it's total fantasy. how many serial killers are there in the book? i count three: martin vanger's father (deceased - doesn't appear in the book as a living character, martin vanger, and niedermann. not a serial killer: everyone else. you're acting like there are just murderers and rapists walking down the street on every page. again, i have no idea what book you read. this is not unheard of in real life. perhaps you should watch that serial killer show on the history channel to learn about some non-fiction serial killers. a lot of people learn bad behavior from their parents. children of abusive parents are more likely to be abusive of their own children, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2012 0:30:32 GMT -5
truffle, you are, I think, glossing over the other Nazis in the Vanger family. Were they all serial killers? No (as far as we know). But the family -- as Henrik himself pointed out -- was pure evil. Why was it supposedly so hard to figure out who murdered Harriet? Because they were all capable of it. Harald was. Isabella was. The children, including the daughters, were even suspects.
Yes, it's fiction. But that's my point. Why create a blatantly false world such as this? This is entertainment? No. It's pornography. The subject is borderline pornography on its own. But the graphic descriptions take us right over that line.
Martin Vanger is a totally implausible creation. If you can find ONE instance of a CEO of a large corporation whose hobby is murdering women in his basement torture chamber, I'd be interested to know who it is.
As for watching "Serial Killers" on the History Channel? No thank you. Why on earth would anyone want to do that? That's part of the problem I'm talking about. It's all we have on TV these days, with all the CSIs and their imitations.
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 14, 2012 0:41:23 GMT -5
truffle, you are, I think, glossing over the other Nazis in the Vanger family. Were they all serial killers? No (as far as we know). But the family -- as Henrik himself pointed out -- was pure evil. Why was it supposedly so hard to figure out who murdered Harriet? Because they were all capable of it. Harald was. Isabella was. The children, including the daughters, were even suspects. Yes, it's fiction. But that's my point. Why create a blatantly false world such as this? This is entertainment? No. It's pornography. The subject is borderline pornography on its own. But the graphic descriptions take us right over that line. Martin Vanger is a totally implausible creation. If you can find ONE instance of a CEO of a large corporation whose hobby is murdering women in his basement torture chamber, I'd be interested to know who it is. As for watching "Serial Killers" on the History Channel? No thank you. Why on earth would anyone want to do that? That's part of the problem I'm talking about. It's all we have on TV these days, with all the CSIs and their imitations. Ruffda, I think you may be glossing over the fact that Sweden was officially-neutral but somewhat of a de-facto German ally in WW2, kind of like Spain. They certainly cooperated in the invasion of Norway (although to some extent that is because otherwise it would have been the invasion of Sweden). I'm not saying the place is crawling with ex-Nazis, but it's not unlikely to find some there. They were also a major refuge for European Jews, though, so I'm not saying they were all Nazi sympathizers.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2012 0:50:30 GMT -5
I'm not glossing over Nazis. (There's a sentence I wouldn't have thought I'd ever have to write.)
I just don't think it leads directly to serial killers in 2000. A family full of ex-Nazis? OK, could happen. A family full of serial killers and potential serial killers, preying on Jewish immigrants no less? Not the plot component I would have chosen.
Saunas in the basement? OK. Torture chambers? Must be an IKEA thing ...
I'm halfway through Fire now. I'm a little concerned where this one is heading, too.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2012 1:01:12 GMT -5
Since it is fiction, I think you have to go back to the author and read up on him too. Larsson (sp.) was a journalist, and I think his novels may reflect some of his experiences as a journalist or a bystander. At least his values on what is right and what is human come through as the story wraps itself up in the last book.
I don't think the he thought up the crudest, most distasteful , and unpleasant crimes for the hell of it. These things happen in real life as truffle pointed out. I think instead of taking each act of crime and defining the book by it, it was intended for us to see how these characters respond to it. You see indifference, ignorance, cover-ups, fighting back BAM, fighting back using the power of journalism, and sadly those that see no wrong only profit from human misery.
It reminds me of Voltaire, and the endless cycle of shame, misery, stupidity, and yes sprinkled with same themes of corruption, greed, sexual deviance, and suffering.
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Post by Thrill of the 'ville on Jan 15, 2012 12:03:56 GMT -5
I want to see The Social Network again just so I can remember what Rooney Mara looks like.
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Post by Phaedrus on Jan 16, 2012 11:22:56 GMT -5
Larsson was an investigative reporter, a rather good one at that. His prime investigation target was the fascist movement in Sweden and Europe. You can tell that the work really got to him pretty deeply. These are pretty nasty people and I think he projects a lot of how he feels about them through the characters.
The things he writes about in the books do happen in real life, it is the coupling of all of the extremes in behavior in one group of people that is stretching credibility. But I think he uses his poetic license here to build up the inevitable denouement. I read all three books and I must say, the last book was quite riveting, but not because of the writing but because of the sense of vengeance. I don't think he was out to create a literary masterpiece, what he did do was to appeal to oour sense of right and wrong, in a very exaggerated way.
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Post by chipNdink on Jan 19, 2012 14:19:47 GMT -5
... Martin Vanger is a totally implausible creation. If you can find ONE instance of a CEO of a large corporation whose hobby is murdering women in his basement torture chamber, I'd be interested to know who it is. ... I didn't read the book, but have a question about the new movie. Martin supposedly shot at the investigator and left the mutilated cat on his doorstep in what I presume was an attempt to scare him away from carrying out the investigation. Yet, when the investigator requested access to the company archives, which the lawyer initially refused, it was Martin who convinced the lawyer to go ahead and let them have access?? Was that just a red herring thrown into the movie version? Or was that also in the book? In which case, it doesn't make sense for Martin to help the investigators when he could've just remained silent, and the company lawyer would've already helped hinder the investigation.
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