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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Jan 18, 2012 15:29:45 GMT -5
Someone lumped in Iowa with South Carolina in terms of views regarding homosexuality. I HATE when people throw stuff out there and it doesn't get questioned....especially when it isn't true. Iowa is incredibly tolerant and advanced in terms of civil liberties. For athletes, girls receive their own administration (IGHSAU). Historically, the first woman to become a lawyer in the US--it was in Iowa. George W. Carver--studied at the Iowa State College of Agriculture. That same school, now ISU, is the only football program with a stadium named for a black man (Jack Trice). Iowa accepts civil unions between homosexual couples Gay marriage, actually
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 17:15:55 GMT -5
Bofa--I went with the more conservative term in my use of 'civil unions'.
VolleyTx--but aren't all voters 'values voters' making decisions based on their values. Deciding Iowa's direction based on caucuses of a single party's fanatics...that's like making the generalization that education in Texas is horrible because I heard about one school in Houston....
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Post by recoil on Jan 19, 2012 11:24:51 GMT -5
Back to the original point of the thread, I just have this to say: Has it occurred to some of you that there are a lot of volleyball recruits who don't want to play on a team full of lesbians? Especially not on a team that is well known for that? The only reason you would have teams "full of lesbians," as you put it, is if they were made unwelcome anywhere else. The reality is that recruits, straight or gay, choose which school to play at almost entirely based on athletics and academics. While the characters and personalities of prospective team members have some influence, the notion that you can tell who is what based just on a weekend visit is very misguided. If you think a lot of recruits don't make their decisions based on who their potential teammates might be, you are just plain wrong. Last year, a top recruit in our state told me, "Why would I want to play volleyball at XXXX University? They're all lesbians." Back to my original point: Surely everyone here can understand why a girl might not want to play on a team that has this known (or even perceived) demographic? It's no different (to me) than a non-Christian who doesn't want to go to a Christian school to play, or a white girl who doesn't want to play at a predominantly black school. I may have missed it, but I didn't see where this thread ventured into the same thing about lesbian coaches. Some girls don't want to play for a coach who is a lesbian either. Is that right or wrong? I don't know.
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Post by NitneLiun on Jan 19, 2012 13:08:42 GMT -5
Hearsay is a concept for a police investigation, as police will not even submit a report to the DA if all the evidence they have it hearsay evidence. You say I keep making the same argument, but apparently you don't understand it. The salient point is that one of the people he reported it to was the PSU administrator who had direct administrative oversight of the Penn State Police Dept. Paterno even set up a meeting between him and the witness. Paterno did exactly what you think he should have done. In a previous life NetNelium was a German in the late 30s and 40s who "heard" terrible things but never witnessed them so did nothing. Look where that got us, and don't give me crap NetNelium that it isn't the same thing. The critical thinking skills of some on this board are incredibly under-developed. I guess that is what is to be expected from jocks, former jocks and jockstrap sniffers. Aside from that, the people who are most emphatically criticizing Paterno are the least informed. I have been following every detail of this story since it became a story. You clowns read or watch a couple of reports and commentaries on ESPN, jump on your moral high horses and ride off to pick the low-hanging fruit, Joe Paterno. Making all roads lead back to an iconic coach is easier and sexier than actually reporting and understanding the story.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Jan 19, 2012 14:23:18 GMT -5
If you think a lot of recruits don't make their decisions based on who their potential teammates might be, you are just plain wrong. The notion that recruits can tell which prospective teammates are gay or straight on a weekend recruiting visit is just baloney.
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Post by austintatious on Jan 19, 2012 16:05:23 GMT -5
In a previous life NetNelium was a German in the late 30s and 40s who "heard" terrible things but never witnessed them so did nothing. Look where that got us, and don't give me crap NetNelium that it isn't the same thing. The critical thinking skills of some on this board are incredibly under-developed. I guess that is what is to be expected from jocks, former jocks and jockstrap sniffers. Aside from that, the people who are most emphatically criticizing Paterno are the least informed. I have been following every detail of this story since it became a story. You clowns read or watch a couple of reports and commentaries on ESPN, jump on your moral high horses and ride off to pick the low-hanging fruit, Joe Paterno. Making all roads lead back to an iconic coach is easier and sexier than actually reporting and understanding the story. Look, I am a huge fan of the PSU, but Paterno made a huge tactical error in judgement and he paid for it. And your blind allegiance to all things PSU, not just here, but on every thread reeks of jock sniffing, PSU good, everyone else bad.
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Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Jan 19, 2012 17:16:53 GMT -5
In a previous life NetNelium was a German in the late 30s and 40s who "heard" terrible things but never witnessed them so did nothing. Look where that got us, and don't give me crap NetNelium that it isn't the same thing. The critical thinking skills of some on this board are incredibly under-developed. I guess that is what is to be expected from jocks, former jocks and jockstrap sniffers. Aside from that, the people who are most emphatically criticizing Paterno are the least informed. I have been following every detail of this story since it became a story. You clowns read or watch a couple of reports and commentaries on ESPN, jump on your moral high horses and ride off to pick the low-hanging fruit, Joe Paterno. Making all roads lead back to an iconic coach is easier and sexier than actually reporting and understanding the story. No one has said "all roads lead back to Joe P", so before you start being on your own "high horse" may you should evaluate your own critical thinking skills. Maybe you missed it, or more like have just chosen to ignore it, but Paterno himself said, "I should have done more."
Here is another report this particular clown read recently on another thread and a few quotes from within. www.nytimes.com/2012/01/19/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-trustees-recall-decision-to-fire-paterno.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&ref=sports------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Surma announced that an agreement appeared to have been reached to fire Paterno, too — the trustees having determined that he had failed to take adequate action when he was told that one of his longtime assistants had been seen molesting a 10-year-old boy in Paterno’s football facility." "The trustees also laid out what they said were three key reasons for firing Paterno: his failure to do more when told about the suspected sexual assault in 2002....." "That Paterno knew of the nature of the suspected 2002 assault, which he stated in his grand jury testimony, was enough for some to decide that he had not acted appropriately...." “To me, it wasn’t about guilt or innocence in a legal sense,” the trustee Kenneth C. Frazier, the chief executive at Merck, said of Paterno’s decision not to go to police. “It was about these norms of society that I’m talking about: that every adult has a responsibility for every other child in our community. And that we have a responsibility not to do the minimum, the legal requirement. We have a responsibility for ensuring that we can take every effort that’s within our power not only to prevent further harm to that child, but to every other child.” ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rhetorical question. Are these folks also a bunch of clowns with limited critical thinking skills?
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Post by redbeard2008 on Jan 19, 2012 17:49:43 GMT -5
What? I'll take a different approach to this (as) ONE (of): An all time fem-team *for the ages*...& NOT too bad really... Setter: Ann Boyer (UCLA) OHs: Brooke Herrington (Pacific), Brook Dieter (MN), Kelly Kuebler (USC) MBs: Suzanne Eagye (Hawai'i), Nina Foster (Florida) Libero: Kelly Holford (UW) Which proves what?
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Post by siddhartha on Jan 19, 2012 22:44:22 GMT -5
In a previous life NetNelium was a German in the late 30s and 40s who "heard" terrible things but never witnessed them so did nothing. Look where that got us, and don't give me crap NetNelium that it isn't the same thing. The critical thinking skills of some on this board are incredibly under-developed. I guess that is what is to be expected from jocks, former jocks and jockstrap sniffers. Aside from that, the people who are most emphatically criticizing Paterno are the least informed. I have been following every detail of this story since it became a story. You clowns read or watch a couple of reports and commentaries on ESPN, jump on your moral high horses and ride off to pick the low-hanging fruit, Joe Paterno. Making all roads lead back to an iconic coach is easier and sexier than actually reporting and understanding the story. Funny coming from a total homer. So, if your kid saw it happening....and you told the AD....and the AD did nothing.....you be fine sitting on your hands? I mean, that might work for you, but Joe knew he should have done more.
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Post by Odin on Jan 20, 2012 0:06:26 GMT -5
This thread has evolved far beyond volleyball related and was a stretch to begin with. Moving to "off the net."
Let's bring the comments back to civil, please.
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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Jan 20, 2012 7:08:57 GMT -5
The only reason you would have teams "full of lesbians," as you put it, is if they were made unwelcome anywhere else. The reality is that recruits, straight or gay, choose which school to play at almost entirely based on athletics and academics. While the characters and personalities of prospective team members have some influence, the notion that you can tell who is what based just on a weekend visit is very misguided. If you think a lot of recruits don't make their decisions based on who their potential teammates might be, you are just plain wrong. Last year, a top recruit in our state told me, "Why would I want to play volleyball at XXXX University? They're all lesbians." Back to my original point: Surely everyone here can understand why a girl might not want to play on a team that has this known (or even perceived) demographic? Well, I understand that folks are racist and homophobic, and hence discriminatory, yes. Got any other explanation? I agree that it is like a racist white girl like that, but the comparison to the non-Christian does not make sense. It's not that non-Christians don't want ot play at a Christian school, it is that Christian schools are allowed to discriminate on the basis of religion, and therefore are allowed to do things like insist that the players are all Christian, or at least "uphold Christian standards." I think plenty of non-Christians would be fine playing at a Christian school if not for the fact that they would have christianity forced upon them, and they are expected (required) to conform. Now, what does that have to do with a team with lesbians or black players?
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 20, 2012 13:48:29 GMT -5
I would not go to a school like BYU, because I would not be willing to sign their (IMO) silly honor code. But at least they are open about it. It's the places which have non-discrimination policies and then go right ahead and allow discrimination anyway that are really bad news.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2012 15:22:44 GMT -5
Now, why a gay player would go to an environment like that is beyond me. I'm surprised it would be an issue after the first couple of seasons. There have been lots of disturbing comments in this thread, but this one needs to be addressed. Aside from mikegarrison's observation that it never stopped people from joining the military, why SHOULD a gay player have to choose another program to avoid an environment like this? That the person who joins the program is going to feel unwelcome due to their sexual orientation is pretty much a textbook example of discrimination on that basis, which is against most of these places policies. It is not the responsibility of a homosexual player to avoid programs that are hostile to homosexuality, it is the responsibility of the program to not have that hostility. "Welcoming to homosexuals" is not something that players are allowed to, nor should they have to, consider in choosing the program (for schools that include homosexuality in the equal opportunity practices). I find it extremely offensive that anyone would put the burden of preventing disruption due to the presence of a homosexual on the team on the homosexual. The phrase "if you do X, the terrorists have won" is certainly overused, but it is absolutely the case that choosing a program because you know the coach/culture is hostile to homosexuals is absolutely a victory for discrimination. "I don't bar black people from my restaurant, your honor, we just seat them in the back and out of the way and treat them like crap because my other customers don't like having them around. If I were to treat them like everyone else, I will alienate my other customers. There are plenty of other restaurants in town where they can go and feel more comfortable. I don't know why they'd want to come here anyway knowing that the other customers don't welcome them." The reason discrimination like this is because people enable it, and don't take a stand against it. If the institution has a policy of non-discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, it must not occur. I don't care who the coaches or players are, this is not acceptable. And it's not just because it is the right thing to do, it is because it is the university policy, and in some cases the law. You want to be a discriminatory bigot, find a job where that is allowable. However, given the non-discrimination policies of most institutions of higher education, it isn't going to be there. There no place for it. I applaud you. Amazing post. Thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2012 15:23:00 GMT -5
Aren't stereotypes wonderful? Love them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2012 15:23:50 GMT -5
It does seem to me that certain schools (or communities) tend to be a bit more religious. i.e. team prays before games, etc. I can see how openly gay players would try to avoid those programs. Help me understand your point... Are you suggesting that gay players can't be religious?
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