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Post by redbeard2008 on Jan 13, 2012 16:40:04 GMT -5
I watched the documentary, Training Rules, last night, focusing on the homophobic discrimination practiced by Rene Portland in her 27-year career as head coach of PSU's women's basketball team. Numerous players had their basketball careers derailed or ruined by being demoted or kicked off the team for being actual or suspected lesbians.
Other than a comment about rife negative homophobic recruiting (including from Portland, who told one prospective player's parents that PSU's players, unlike another school the player was considering, dated boys, not girls), no examples were presented of similar issues at other schools or in other women's sports, other than an apparent plague of ponytails (signaling heterosexuality?) as opposed to shorter and more "butch" hairstyles.
Was this an anomaly at PSU, due to one coach's Catholic fundamentalist biases, or just the tip of an iceberg that has afflicted women's sports in general? Has there been issues with homophobic discrimination or negative anti-lesbian recruiting in women's volleyball?
Please, no discussion of past or current individual players.
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Post by vbnerd on Jan 13, 2012 17:12:22 GMT -5
To take some of the stigma out of this discussion, there are players who drink in season, and there are programs, even schools, that forbid it. Their policy to prevent the a kid from doing 21 tequila shots has made a criminal of the kid who has a beer with his pizza after the game.
The disruption that player causes to the program is only a disruption because of the policy set forth by the coach or school... so on the topic you've brought up, there are lesbien athletes across the country where it is simply not an issue because they respect their teammates and their teammates respect them and the coach/school doesn't care. In a less accepting environment like the one you describe at Portland State, being gay, regardless of how open you may be about it, is a disruption in and of itself because of school or program policies/rules.
Now, why a gay player would go to an environment like that is beyond me. I'm surprised it would be an issue after the first couple of seasons.
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Post by standingroomonly1 on Jan 13, 2012 17:18:34 GMT -5
On behalf of a lot of the followers of this forum, why would you want toget this sort of topic going? Looking at your name, Redbeard, the first thing I visualize is a diirty old man getting his jollies from this sort of thing..Sure, there are a lot of lesbian volleyball players out there on club teams, school teams and national teams. There are lots of lesbian parents and fans out there too...Who cares? Does being lesbian inhibit their talents on or off the court? Enjoy the game for what it is, and who is playing it--not WHO is playing it, if you know what I mean..
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 13, 2012 17:27:31 GMT -5
To take some of the stigma out of this discussion, there are players who drink in season, and there are programs, even schools, that forbid it. Their policy to prevent the a kid from doing 21 tequila shots has made a criminal of the kid who has a beer with his pizza after the game. If said kid is under 21, that kid actually is a criminal in every state. Not that I think it should be this way. I think exactly opposite of that. But I have to point out that it actually is against the law to drink as a minor. Completely opposite of the situation regarding alcohol, in many states and most universities it is against either law or policy to discriminate on the basis of sexuality. (There are a few schools for which this is not true, but I assume that if you choose to go to a school with a formal policy that forbids some or all types of sexual activity, then you have made that choice knowingly.)
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 13, 2012 17:29:08 GMT -5
On behalf of a lot of the followers of this forum, why would you want toget this sort of topic going? Looking at your name, Redbeard, the first thing I visualize is a diirty old man getting his jollies from this sort of thing..Sure, there are a lot of lesbian volleyball players out there on club teams, school teams and national teams. There are lots of lesbian parents and fans out there too...Who cares? Does being lesbian inhibit their talents on or off the court? Enjoy the game for what it is, and who is playing it--not WHO is playing it, if you know what I mean.. Say what?! I see no possible way that Redbeard's post could reasonably be interpreted in this manner.
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 13, 2012 17:33:55 GMT -5
Now, why a gay player would go to an environment like that is beyond me. I'm surprised it would be an issue after the first couple of seasons. It's not that simple. Just look at the history of gays in the military.
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Post by bigfan on Jan 13, 2012 17:35:27 GMT -5
On behalf of a lot of the followers of this forum, why would you want toget this sort of topic going? Looking at your name, Redbeard, the first thing I visualize is a diirty old man getting his jollies from this sort of thing..Sure, there are a lot of lesbian volleyball players out there on club teams, school teams and national teams. There are lots of lesbian parents and fans out there too...Who cares? Does being lesbian inhibit their talents on or off the court? Enjoy the game for what it is, and who is playing it--not WHO is playing it, if you know what I mean.. You answered your own question......................WHO CARES!!!!!!!! ;D
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Post by BearClause on Jan 13, 2012 17:41:23 GMT -5
There certain has been a lot of negative recruiting in the women's basketball world regarding pointing to certain coaches or players as lesbian. I recall one of the issues with Lindy Vivas at Fresno State was that some perceived her to be lesbian (I don't know and I only mention it because this was a very public situation).
I thought I heard about a case where one women's BB coach went into a recruit's home and gave the "you don't want to go to that LESBIAN program" pitch, only to be then told that the recruit self-identified as a lesbian.
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Post by volleytology on Jan 13, 2012 17:53:20 GMT -5
The lesbian issue is the 900 pound gorilla in women's hoops
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Post by bigfan on Jan 13, 2012 17:59:04 GMT -5
Looking at your name, Redbeard, the first thing I visualize is a diirty old man getting his jollies from this sort of thing..................... Reading your response I sense a vile, paranoid, mean spirited attack on a fellow member in good standing Volleytalker.
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 13, 2012 19:01:15 GMT -5
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Post by volleytology on Jan 13, 2012 19:05:56 GMT -5
Who's talking about the WNBA ? I was referring to college women's basketball. WNBA lesbians are professional lesbians
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Post by jgrout on Jan 13, 2012 19:18:17 GMT -5
Has there been issues with homophobic discrimination or negative anti-lesbian recruiting in women's volleyball? Yes. Have there been issues with anti-male discrimination against women's volleyball (which is perceived to be dominated by male coaches) by female sports reporters covering women's sports? Yes. The kinds of things described in this thread come from hate. As I learned some years ago in San Francisco, hate is an equal-opportunity emotion. There are not only haters from all genders and sexual orientations but also haters of all genders and sexual orientations. The progressive B.S. about hatred being OK (or even righteous) if it is aimed against those who are straight, male, Caucasian or any combination of these things is exactly that... B.S. So is the conservative B.S. about hatred being OK or even righteous if aimed against those who are LGBT, female, of color or any combination of those things.
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Post by Phaedrus on Jan 13, 2012 19:21:56 GMT -5
There was a rumor, years ago, about a very successful WBB program in the south that welcomed all players. While their in state rival recruited negatively about lesbians in the first school's program. It worked because one of the star recruits to the first school ended up transferring to the second school in her sophomore year and pushed that program to the top.
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Post by jgrout on Jan 13, 2012 19:51:24 GMT -5
Who's talking about the WNBA ? I was referring to college women's basketball. WNBA lesbians are professional lesbians Stanford WBB may not market openly to lesbians, but they draw lots of women who are both out and showing it in their dress and appearance (crew cuts, piercings, tats, etc.). Some of these folks... but not too many... also have Stanford WVB season tickets. [If one connects the dots between my post above and this one, the reason should become apparent.] The last time my season tickets were near such folk was in 2004 at Burnham Pavilion. I wouldn't have had a problem with their snarky remarks and contemptuous glances at me (a male at a female sporting event being like a skunk at a picnic) if they'd just given me a little more legroom (we had reserved bleacher "seating", if one can call it that, and there was no room for my legs).
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