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Post by acevolleymom on Jul 23, 2014 21:25:46 GMT -5
What other tips would you all offer us?
My daughter plays year-round, indoor (school, travel) and outdoor. She just finished her outdoor season of U12 at #50 (before CA and TX continue on with their season, and she'll probably fall in the rankings).
At the beginning of the season her and her partner played awesome together. Sometimes they had to play up a division and beat older teams. Unfortunately, her partner's dad (let's call her partner Jen and Jen's dad, Tom) constantly yells at Jen. It's disruptive, delays the game, then the girls start fighting because my daughter is telling Jen to ignore Tom and get back in the game. Tom has gone as far as threaten to take Jen home because she wasn't getting her serves in - BTW, Jen is 11!
The girls were on the same club team, my daughter set and Jen was MB. They worked great together, so they were a natural fit. Now they aren't even speaking, it got so bad at Regionals. Jen even said that she was going to stay down U12 another year instead of moving up to U14 with my daughter. Which, after Tom's behavior, I think that it's best that they don't partner next year. Jen started blasting my daughter each time she missed a serve or her set wasn't perfect. I'm sure that is stemming from her dad's behavior.
What should we be looking for in choosing a partner next season? I know what I want, but I don't know how to find it!! The family needs to be willing to go to a tournament every weekend, and let the girls get together to practice, preferably as part of the local league. Since I'll be spending lots of time with the family, I'd love if we could ENJOY watching the girls play. Yes, it's really hard not to argue when the girls reffing get it wrong, but my daughter has grown tremendously this season. She's more vocal in making calls and speaking up on her own behalf if necessary. It's also important that my daughter and her partner call it as it happens, meaning, have some morals! I'm not teaching my daughter to lie just to get a point. And, of course, the girls should mesh well and be of about the same level of play.
After this first season, I see the importance of not just the partner's skill, but her personality and that of her family. Is there an acceptable way to find a partner at this level?
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Post by tinman2 on Jul 24, 2014 0:46:16 GMT -5
Your daughter needs to take up golf and you need to quit trying to be an agent to a 12 year old......
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Post by acevolleymom on Jul 24, 2014 5:54:20 GMT -5
I'm sorry you feel that way tinman2. I've looked at some of your posts and it seems that you have inferred that you are a U12 beach coach based on the following thread and could have provided some great insight on what makes a team work well together. volleytalk.proboards.com/thread/53912/question-refs |
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Post by gobruins on Jul 24, 2014 7:21:35 GMT -5
I think what Tinman may be trying to say is, let your daughter find her own partner. Otherwise, in a few years you will be on a message board asking for advice on how to find your daughter a better boyfriend. Then, a few years later, a better husband. Then, after another few years, a better divorce lawyer.
Thinking that might not go over real well with the darling daughter.
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Post by acevolleymom on Jul 24, 2014 8:51:47 GMT -5
I do have two older kids and haven't found those problems  ?. This is just the first sport our family has been involved in that relied so heavily on another family without set rules, like with club team, or individual race registrations (5k's for my son). Kind of awkward for me when the dad is breaking rules and it affects us, but I felt it wasn't my place to ask him to stop. I feel bad for his daughter. She has potential, but I've overheard club coaches talking about his bad behavior. Guess I can meet with the parents of who she wants to discuss expectations up front like which tournaments, travel, behavior,etc... I never meant to imply that I would be choosing her partner. We, as in she was right beside me when I wrote the first post, wondered how to find a good fit. I guess with pro, you put up with more because its a job. But everyone starts somewhere and she just loves to play. I see my role as providing that opportunity...not as coach, but I hit with her, not as agent, but I'll try to help her have a better season next year. |
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Post by acevolleymom on Jul 24, 2014 8:53:24 GMT -5
That was supposed to be a smiley face. On my phone and don't see an edit button!
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Post by guest2 on Jul 24, 2014 9:03:23 GMT -5
I would suggest that rather than always playing Juniors, encourage her to enter some adult tournaments. When I was starting to play, there werent beach juniors tournaments and the only indoor juniors programs were hours away, so I played mostly on adult teams. I found that when I did play kids my own age or older that my ability to compete, concentration, etc. was on a much higher level than theirs.
Juniors is obviously important for skill building, instruction and the framework provided, but its also somewhat of a false environment.
With regards to her partner, at that age I think she should play with a lot of different people even in juniors. At age 12 she shouldn't be thinking, "this is what I do well, so I can only play with this kind of partner" She should be playing with a lot of different people and focusing on developing an all around game.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Jul 24, 2014 9:03:31 GMT -5
What other tips would you all offer us? My daughter plays year-round, indoor (school, travel) and outdoor. She just finished her outdoor season of U12 at #50 (before CA and TX continue on with their season, and she'll probably fall in the rankings). At the beginning of the season her and her partner played awesome together. Sometimes they had to play up a division and beat older teams. Unfortunately, her partner's dad (let's call her partner Jen and Jen's dad, Tom) constantly yells at Jen. It's disruptive, delays the game, then the girls start fighting because my daughter is telling Jen to ignore Tom and get back in the game. Tom has gone as far as threaten to take Jen home because she wasn't getting her serves in - BTW, Jen is 11! The girls were on the same club team, my daughter set and Jen was MB. They worked great together, so they were a natural fit. Now they aren't even speaking, it got so bad at Regionals. Jen even said that she was going to stay down U12 another year instead of moving up to U14 with my daughter. Which, after Tom's behavior, I think that it's best that they don't partner next year. Jen started blasting my daughter each time she missed a serve or her set wasn't perfect. I'm sure that is stemming from her dad's behavior. What should we be looking for in choosing a partner next season? I know what I want, but I don't know how to find it!! The family needs to be willing to go to a tournament every weekend, and let the girls get together to practice, preferably as part of the local league. Since I'll be spending lots of time with the family, I'd love if we could ENJOY watching the girls play. Yes, it's really hard not to argue when the girls reffing get it wrong, but my daughter has grown tremendously this season. She's more vocal in making calls and speaking up on her own behalf if necessary. It's also important that my daughter and her partner call it as it happens, meaning, have some morals! I'm not teaching my daughter to lie just to get a point. And, of course, the girls should mesh well and be of about the same level of play. After this first season, I see the importance of not just the partner's skill, but her personality and that of her family. Is there an acceptable way to find a partner at this level? 1st, if the kids are playing under a club flag, I'd talk to a director to speak to the father. I'll assume their is no coach, because a good coach wouldn't have let this happen. If you have 2 sets of parents "teaching", that is just a car wreck waiting to happen. 2nd, I'd be worried about playing a tournament EVERY weekend. If you are doing indoor (HS & Club), You daughter's body needs time to recover and get stronger. I would recommend doing a tournament every other weekend. Not only for recovery, but also for having more practices in between tournaments to work on specifics before you have new items from a new tournament. Don't worry about Rankings, they should be having fun and learning the game. Mix in playing in adult tournaments, observe experienced players and how they play. 3rd, Definitely find someone who she enjoys playing with. But don't limit who she plays with, even have her play WITH adults. She will learn more playing with more than one person, because she will have to deal with different strengths and weakness from different players which will make her stronger. 4th, as a parent RELAX and enjoy! Try not to say anything negative (or assign blame) about an opponent, teammate, ref or parent, because it just influences your kid (don't bring/join in the drama). 3 sentences: "Good job. You tried hard. You got better." that's all anyone really wants to hear. |
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Post by tinman2 on Jul 24, 2014 9:36:40 GMT -5
I'm sorry you feel that way tinman2. I've looked at some of your posts and it seems that you have inferred that you are a U12 beach coach based on the following thread and could have provided some great insight on what makes a team work well together. volleytalk.net/thread/53912/question-refsI was just teasing, sort of.....  |
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Post by guest2 on Jul 24, 2014 9:37:10 GMT -5
What other tips would you all offer us? 3 sentences: "Good job. You tried hard. You got better." that's all anyone really wants to hear. And trophies for everyone!!!!! I dont necessarily disagree with being positive and not negative, they are 12 after all, but praising kids when it isnt deserved has not had the best effect on kids who grow up in that environment. The smart ones quickly figure out you are full of %*$#, and the others develop entitlement. I wouldnt suggest criticizing (unless constructive, appropriate and desired by your daughter) but at the same time, dont praise unless she earns it. It will mean more and she will be better for it |
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Post by tinman2 on Jul 24, 2014 9:40:35 GMT -5
As a PARENT to a 12 year old, you should simply say, "I enjoyed watching you play." Nothing else really matters at that age...
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Post by tinman2 on Jul 24, 2014 9:45:34 GMT -5
From an article I bookmarked, because I coach and cheer for my own kids: What We Should Say When Our Kids Perform The most liberating words parents can speak to their student-athletes are quite simple. Based on psychological research, the three healthiest statements moms and dads can make as they perform are: Before the Competition: After the competition: 1.Have fun. 1. Did you have fun? 2.Play hard. 2. I’m proud of you. 3.I love you. 3. I love you. Six Simple Words… For years, I wondered what the student-athlete would say about this issue. After decades of work with athletes, Bruce E. Brown and Rob Miller found out. They suggest six simple words parents can express that produce the most positive results in their performing children. After interacting with students, they report: College athletes were asked what their parents said that made them feel great, that amplified their joy during and after a ballgame. Their overwhelming response: “I love to watch you play.” That’s it. Those six words. How interesting. How liberating to the parent. How empowering to the student-athlete. No pressure. No correction. No judgment. (That’s the coach’s job). Just pure love of their child using their gift in competition. When I learned this, I reflected on the years my own kids competed in sports, recitals, theatrical plays, and practices. Far too often, I wanted to play a role that added more stress to their life. Instead, I now realize—I just need to love them. And to love watching them play. From a parent’s view—this is the best way to cultivate an emotionally healthy kid. - See more at: growingleaders.com/blog/what-parents-should-say-as-their-kids-perform/#sthash.LBk2kIx0.dpuf |
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Post by JB Southpaw on Jul 24, 2014 9:45:58 GMT -5
3 sentences: "Good job. You tried hard. You got better." that's all anyone really wants to hear. And trophies for everyone!!!!! I dont necessarily disagree with being positive and not negative, they are 12 after all, but praising kids when it isnt deserved has not had the best effect on kids who grow up in that environment. The smart ones quickly figure out you are full of %*$#, and the others develop entitlement. I wouldnt suggest criticizing (unless constructive, appropriate and desired by your daughter) but at the same time, dont praise unless she earns it. It will mean more and she will be better for it I never said that. My point is, be a parent not a coach, especially if you don't know the game. Saying what I said does not praise someone for something they didn't deserve. I didn't say "You should have won" or "the other team got lucky". I swear guest, sometimes you just say BS just to not agree with people. |
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Post by guest2 on Jul 24, 2014 10:07:50 GMT -5
And trophies for everyone!!!!! I dont necessarily disagree with being positive and not negative, they are 12 after all, but praising kids when it isnt deserved has not had the best effect on kids who grow up in that environment. The smart ones quickly figure out you are full of %*$#, and the others develop entitlement. I wouldnt suggest criticizing (unless constructive, appropriate and desired by your daughter) but at the same time, dont praise unless she earns it. It will mean more and she will be better for it I never said that. My point is, be a parent not a coach, especially if you don't know the game. Saying what I said does not praise someone for something they didn't deserve. I didn't say "You should have won" or "the other team got lucky". I swear guest, sometimes you just say BS just to not agree with people. If I took what you said out of context or misunderstood then of course I apologize to the extent you felt it was directed at you. I think my overall point is apt though. The people who promote the sort of endless positivity that has too often become the consensus at youth sports are missing the majority of the value that youth sports has. The idea underlying the sort of endless positivity is that winning and losing is not important, that youth sports are about being healthy etc and in general they just arent. In fact if health is your goal, there isnt a worse sport you could choose than indoor volleyball. (Im sure we all know multiple 50 year olds who can barely hobble along because of damage to their knees and hips) Youth football and baseball are the same. (either harmful or not helpful) In fact the only popular youth sports that actually encourage being healthy long term are soccer and basketball. The real value of youth sports is they teach you about competition and facing, and overcoming, adversity. I am not for yelling at kids or criticizing harshly, but I have also seen dozens of games where kids quit, or didn't try,and they come off the field and their parents (and often coaches) simply lie to them. "I'm proud of you" or "You were great." stuff like that. What that reinforces is that quitting and not trying are ok. I am not for yelling or punishing in this context, but I am for encouraging kids to compete more, to not quit, and to do their best to succeed Look at it another way. If your kid didnt study, filled in half the questions, and brought home a 42% on their math test, you would tell them "Im proud of you" and "you did your best" This is sort of one of my personal pet peeves (the everybody did great mindset in youth sports). It basically eliminates most of the value in youth sports and I think that most kids, rather than being in that kind of environment would be better off in a park playing with their friends. It also is unfair to those that excel. |
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Post by guest2 on Jul 24, 2014 10:15:51 GMT -5
From an article I bookmarked, because I coach and cheer for my own kids: What We Should Say When Our Kids Perform The most liberating words parents can speak to their student-athletes are quite simple. Based on psychological research, the three healthiest statements moms and dads can make as they perform are: Before the Competition: After the competition: 1.Have fun. 1. Did you have fun? 2.Play hard. 2. I’m proud of you. 3.I love you. 3. I love you. Six Simple Words… For years, I wondered what the student-athlete would say about this issue. After decades of work with athletes, Bruce E. Brown and Rob Miller found out. They suggest six simple words parents can express that produce the most positive results in their performing children. After interacting with students, they report: College athletes were asked what their parents said that made them feel great, that amplified their joy during and after a ballgame. Their overwhelming response: “I love to watch you play.” That’s it. Those six words. How interesting. How liberating to the parent. How empowering to the student-athlete. No pressure. No correction. No judgment. (That’s the coach’s job). Just pure love of their child using their gift in competition. When I learned this, I reflected on the years my own kids competed in sports, recitals, theatrical plays, and practices. Far too often, I wanted to play a role that added more stress to their life. Instead, I now realize—I just need to love them. And to love watching them play. From a parent’s view—this is the best way to cultivate an emotionally healthy kid. - See more at: growingleaders.com/blog/what-parents-should-say-as-their-kids-perform/#sthash.LBk2kIx0.dpufI have all kinds of problems with that article but they can be summed up by using his own analogy. He points out that when a parent teaches a kid to ride a bike, they initially work them through training wheels, etc. but once the kid knows how to ride, they basically leave them alone. Here is what he doesnt include that ruins the whole analogy. Kids never really get much better at riding the bikes. Those things, which I do agree are helpful in most contexts (although I would definitely add a "did you pay hard" to the questions, may make kids feel good, but is that always merited? Why not ask the kids, what things did your parents feed you after the games that made you feel good? That question, nearly identical, would yield answers that were primarily junk food, and using the same dubious extrapolation, would imply that you should take your kid out for pizza or burgers all the time if you want them to be healthy, etc. |
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