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Post by jcvball22 on Nov 19, 2014 21:47:06 GMT -5
Well that was a short press release and statement from the AD. Yikes Shorter tenure. Double Yikes. 2 years? Even that long? That's a red flag, one way or the other.
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Post by vboldskool on Nov 19, 2014 22:02:18 GMT -5
30 under 30, kiss of death....
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Post by gmuvolleyballfan on Nov 19, 2014 22:03:26 GMT -5
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Post by colonel84 on Nov 19, 2014 22:35:36 GMT -5
Shorter tenure. Double Yikes. 2 years? Even that long? That's a red flag, one way or the other. I think he was there 3 seasons
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 23:01:03 GMT -5
Northeastern Univ assistant coach position is open
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Post by spikeninja on Nov 20, 2014 6:47:01 GMT -5
30 under 30, kiss of death.... word.... But i think the 30u30 is a symptom of the true problem. 1. AD'S have no clue how to hire and do so based on how good the press release will sound. 30u30 is fluff...no real substance. 2. 30u30 is something that can give a false sense of accomplishment. It's a popularity contest. That's it. No different when I voted to homecoming court in hs. You barely have any answers under 30 or even 40...but this tells you are good before you really are. Bad recipe for this generation. 3. When you really don't know what a good volleyball coach is...and don't care...you often look at someone who has never struggled. Never had to really worked for success. The assistant coach with the silver spoon who maybe played or volunteered at some big name program. Schmoozed the right people at the social hour at AVCA or out recruiting. Had success at programs that are easy to have success. Or assisted at a top 20 with top 20 clout and top 20 resources. So that will definitely translate to our crappy budget and no vb tradition right? 4. Lastly. Unrealistic expectations with unrealistic time lines and lack of true support from administration to make lemonade out of lemons. See this.. changingthegameproject.com/are-great-coaches-becoming-an-endangered-species/Nobody cares if the FB, MBA or WEB hurts a kids feelings. They need to suck it up...this is college athletics. AD'S are increasingly bean counters and fundraisers with to true athletics experience. So they know don't good coaching. They just know the parental and player created/embellished controversy is distracting them from that marquee program or landing that big donor. Im not saying these coaches aren't good. They might be. I will say this is what can happen when we push people up the chain who aren't ready. When we don't look at all the info and get to know who is really a good coach and who appears to be good. Getting to know a sport would help. But it's easy to be an assistant for 10 years when an assistant FB coach is pulling down 6 figures or close to it. Feeding a family and building a resume is easier than doing it on 30-37k. So economics often dictates fast upward movement. Look at the average age of a MBB head coach...they consider just under 40 a "young hire." There is no way to judge the body of work on a 20 something to say you are ready to run a D1 program. Can you be at a bottom feeder and make it better, but not necessarily have a high win %? There has to be better hiring methods than what looks good in a press release. It's all inexact science...you never really know what you get. I get that. But this way isnt working. ADs with no athletics background isn't working. Regurgitation of the same people or different people wearing the same clothing isn't working. Which is why I never say "they will do well there." Because we just don't know that. We dont, so why say it? Welcome to the new carousel.
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Post by Blackbelt on Nov 20, 2014 7:45:17 GMT -5
Well said. I am finding the new generation of coaches believe their value is much higher than their experience dictates. They truly don't "pay their dues" as an assistant very long and their salary expectations are unrealistic. I commend the AD's who look at the coaches who have struggled and prevailed as the next leader for their program. I am watching several young, inexperienced (in my old school opinion) coaches jump to head jobs and be unsuccessful in more areas than the win column.
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Post by vbc1 on Nov 20, 2014 7:52:29 GMT -5
30 under 30 has always been a joke. Anyone who has been involved in coaching for years will tell you that. The poster who mentioned that AD's look for the easy hire based on "fluff" is dead on. We have all seen that mentioned in their bio's when they get hired.
Could this year be a large turn-over year?
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Post by ja on Nov 20, 2014 8:30:56 GMT -5
30 under 30, kiss of death.... word.... But i think the 30u30 is a symptom of the true problem. 1. AD'S have no clue how to hire and do so based on how good the press release will sound. 30u30 is fluff...no real substance. 2. 30u30 is something that can give a false sense of accomplishment. It's a popularity contest. That's it. No different when I voted to homecoming court in hs. You barely have any answers under 30 or even 40...but this tells you are good before you really are. Bad recipe for this generation. 3. When you really don't know what a good volleyball coach is...and don't care...you often look at someone who has never struggled. Never had to really worked for success. The assistant coach with the silver spoon who maybe played or volunteered at some big name program. Schmoozed the right people at the social hour at AVCA or out recruiting. Had success at programs that are easy to have success. Or assisted at a top 20 with top 20 clout and top 20 resources. So that will definitely translate to our crappy budget and no vb tradition right? 4. Lastly. Unrealistic expectations with unrealistic time lines and lack of true support from administration to make lemonade out of lemons. See this.. changingthegameproject.com/are-great-coaches-becoming-an-endangered-species/Nobody cares if the FB, MBA or WEB hurts a kids feelings. They need to suck it up...this is college athletics. AD'S are increasingly bean counters and fundraisers with to true athletics experience. So they know don't good coaching. They just know the parental and player created/embellished controversy is distracting them from that marquee program or landing that big donor. Im not saying these coaches aren't good. They might be. I will say this is what can happen when we push people up the chain who aren't ready. When we don't look at all the info and get to know who is really a good coach and who appears to be good. Getting to know a sport would help. But it's easy to be an assistant for 10 years when an assistant FB coach is pulling down 6 figures or close to it. Feeding a family and building a resume is easier than doing it on 30-37k. So economics often dictates fast upward movement. Look at the average age of a MBB head coach...they consider just under 40 a "young hire." There is no way to judge the body of work on a 20 something to say you are ready to run a D1 program. Can you be at a bottom feeder and make it better, but not necessarily have a high win %? There has to be better hiring methods than what looks good in a press release. It's all inexact science...you never really know what you get. I get that. But this way isnt working. ADs with no athletics background isn't working. Regurgitation of the same people or different people wearing the same clothing isn't working. Which is why I never say "they will do well there." Because we just don't know that. We dont, so why say it? Welcome to the new carousel. I have to second you on this! Yes you have to go through struggles in order to grow! Learning from others mistakes is still just a wishful thinking. We are growing by learning from our own mistakes. Wisdom is not coming from reading books, it's coming from making mistakes and ability to admit them and adjust afterwards. AD hiring trends leaves me speechless at time, angered and in disbelieve. Reality bites! They will say all the right words, but those words have no bearing! You are absolutely correct that most newly appointed AD's are business people, have no or very limited coaching experience and therefore have no idea how to find a right person to coach. They are looking for business appeal, not coaching philosophies. To build a program you need time and resources, usually coaches will have neither on bottom level teams, but will always have expectations to fulfill. Actually, just to be honest, success at one school doesn't mean automatic success at another. Everything have to click. When you look at recruiting, who is the most successful? Coaches with stable, established programs and tons of connections! How can you get those two at 28 or 30? USAV doing pretty good job with it's educational programs, but does have some limitations. Bringing young coaches to HP pipeline gives them exposer to ideas. The problem is that nobody teach them how to adjust those ideas to the reality of bellow than average recruits, who simply can't touch 10 feet and will not hit the ball with the same power as NT players. GM2 clinics became a business venture long time ago and still runs the same set on and on and on. Game evolves every Olympic cycle with change of rules and new technology. Just look at volleyball, how much it changed over last 10 years! Unfortunately it's too easy to became a coach, just go take IMPACT and you are ready to go at club level! Do those coaches have any knowledge about TEACHING? Would you trust your girl to learn math from firefighter or ELA from plumber? Then why we do this to our girls in volleyball? How many college coaches have degree in education? Maybe we will have better results if we will try to make some changes at the very bottom of this volleyball pyramid!
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Post by vboldskool on Nov 20, 2014 8:35:08 GMT -5
30 under 30 has always been a joke. Anyone who has been involved in coaching for years will tell you that. The poster who mentioned that AD's look for the easy hire based on "fluff" is dead on. We have all seen that mentioned in their bio's when they get hired. Could this year be a large turn-over year? Large turnover year...as compared to last year or the year before? I doubt it will be substantially lower or higher. I think it is more of a new reality in the women's game and in athletics in general. Spikeninja - NAILED IT, well done, well done indeed.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 9:19:46 GMT -5
I think you 'missed' one other problem. When you make these hires for the flash, etc--it means someone who likely is WELL qualified doesn't get the job and more than one person gives up at that point and leaves coaching, so not only do you promote the wrong person, you drive the RIGHT person completely out of the sport/profession, making it all the harder to hire a competent person the next time. 30 under 30, kiss of death.... word.... But i think the 30u30 is a symptom of the true problem. 1. AD'S have no clue how to hire and do so based on how good the press release will sound. 30u30 is fluff...no real substance. 2. 30u30 is something that can give a false sense of accomplishment. It's a popularity contest. That's it. No different when I voted to homecoming court in hs. You barely have any answers under 30 or even 40...but this tells you are good before you really are. Bad recipe for this generation. 3. When you really don't know what a good volleyball coach is...and don't care...you often look at someone who has never struggled. Never had to really worked for success. The assistant coach with the silver spoon who maybe played or volunteered at some big name program. Schmoozed the right people at the social hour at AVCA or out recruiting. Had success at programs that are easy to have success. Or assisted at a top 20 with top 20 clout and top 20 resources. So that will definitely translate to our crappy budget and no vb tradition right? 4. Lastly. Unrealistic expectations with unrealistic time lines and lack of true support from administration to make lemonade out of lemons. See this.. changingthegameproject.com/are-great-coaches-becoming-an-endangered-species/Nobody cares if the FB, MBA or WEB hurts a kids feelings. They need to suck it up...this is college athletics. AD'S are increasingly bean counters and fundraisers with to true athletics experience. So they know don't good coaching. They just know the parental and player created/embellished controversy is distracting them from that marquee program or landing that big donor. Im not saying these coaches aren't good. They might be. I will say this is what can happen when we push people up the chain who aren't ready. When we don't look at all the info and get to know who is really a good coach and who appears to be good. Getting to know a sport would help. But it's easy to be an assistant for 10 years when an assistant FB coach is pulling down 6 figures or close to it. Feeding a family and building a resume is easier than doing it on 30-37k. So economics often dictates fast upward movement. Look at the average age of a MBB head coach...they consider just under 40 a "young hire." There is no way to judge the body of work on a 20 something to say you are ready to run a D1 program. Can you be at a bottom feeder and make it better, but not necessarily have a high win %? There has to be better hiring methods than what looks good in a press release. It's all inexact science...you never really know what you get. I get that. But this way isnt working. ADs with no athletics background isn't working. Regurgitation of the same people or different people wearing the same clothing isn't working. Which is why I never say "they will do well there." Because we just don't know that. We dont, so why say it? Welcome to the new carousel.
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Post by jcash8 on Nov 20, 2014 9:55:26 GMT -5
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Post by rockhopper on Nov 20, 2014 10:30:38 GMT -5
From the press release...
Mankato, Minn. --- Minnesota State women's volleyball coach Dennis Amundson, whose team just wrapped up the 2014 campaign with an appearance in the NSIC/US Bank conference tournament, has announced that he will resign from his position when his current contract expires at the conclusion of the 2014-15 school year.
Does this mean Minnesota State will not hire until April/May?
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Post by Not Me on Nov 20, 2014 10:37:31 GMT -5
JA - when a sport grows, like club volleyball has been growing, then you need to add coached with lower qualifications. The option for many clubs is not having a team, or using a new coach.
But that should not translate into college, especially for the full time jobs. The part time issue is a whole other argument.
aren't coaches also to blame for the issues? They are the ones giving these young coaches recommendations when they aren't really qualified. Do they ever tell an AD that a candidate isn't ready? Do they ever recommend someone else, maybe an older, more seasoned coach?
Another issue is the fact that ball is not a big revenue sport, so the salaries are low. You can be an assistant coach in basketball and still make a good living for a number of years. In volleyball you can't do that. Coaches have to move up the ladder or move out just for financial reasons.
Do other sports, like soccer, field hockey, lacrosse, or softball have these issues in their coaching ranks?
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Post by ja on Nov 20, 2014 10:42:00 GMT -5
From the press release... Mankato, Minn. --- Minnesota State women's volleyball coach Dennis Amundson, whose team just wrapped up the 2014 campaign with an appearance in the NSIC/US Bank conference tournament, has announced that he will resign from his position when his current contract expires at the conclusion of the 2014-15 school year. Does this mean Minnesota State will not hire until April/May? They will do the search, but will not be able to hire before his contract expires.
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