|
Post by kekoagoldenbear on Apr 1, 2015 23:23:40 GMT -5
Great job Lewis!!!!! So other than BYU and Penn St.....who else of quality did Loyola beat that still keeps them in the at-large conversation? Ohio st? I'm not sure I follow the "quality wins" criteria that people keep referring to as integral to the at-large selection process. Maybe I'm missing something. Where are "quality wins" referenced? I can't find that section though I've read the selection criteria several times. I also don't see travel expenses listed as a determining criteria either, as Vinnie has explained on multiple occasions. At least the MIVA is making progress...this year it will be a certified travesty if 3 MIVA teams make it to the tournament whereas last year it only took two to wrangle their way into the big dance with the help of dirty Chicago politicians and tight fisted NCAA bean counters. Lost in this thread about Lewis vs Loyola is that Lewis is a pretty good team. Loyola is too. Lewis overcame a slow start to take control of the match with a balanced attack, great blocking and stepped up serving, passing and defense. Fitterer was hitting like he did early in the season and although Powell didn't hit as well as usual, Petty stepped up when needed and The team held off some late rallies by Loyola in sets 3 and four. I was told the gym was beyond standing room only with some especially enthusiastic fans being escorted to the exits. Good job Flyers...this year...why not you? For someone that follows the sport, it's no rocket science what "Quality" means. We are NOT saying that Loyola is a BAD team. They are after all the defending Champions. All we are trying to convey is that since Loyola has lost twice to Lewis and should they not win the MIVA (granted Lewis wins the MIVA Tournament), should they deserve an at-large bid versus Pepperdine whose currently 3rd in the MPSF or UCI or Hawaii (should Pepperdine win the MPSF Tournament).
|
|
|
Post by vbsocal56 on Apr 2, 2015 0:04:30 GMT -5
Is Stanford even considered a good win for Loyola anymore?
|
|
|
Post by bowandarrow on Apr 2, 2015 0:50:28 GMT -5
I'm not sure I follow the "quality wins" criteria that people keep referring to as integral to the at-large selection process. Maybe I'm missing something. Where are "quality wins" referenced? I can't find that section though I've read the selection criteria several times. I also don't see travel expenses listed as a determining criteria either, as Vinnie has explained on multiple occasions. At least the MIVA is making progress...this year it will be a certified travesty if 3 MIVA teams make it to the tournament whereas last year it only took two to wrangle their way into the big dance with the help of dirty Chicago politicians and tight fisted NCAA bean counters. Lost in this thread about Lewis vs Loyola is that Lewis is a pretty good team. Loyola is too. Lewis overcame a slow start to take control of the match with a balanced attack, great blocking and stepped up serving, passing and defense. Fitterer was hitting like he did early in the season and although Powell didn't hit as well as usual, Petty stepped up when needed and The team held off some late rallies by Loyola in sets 3 and four. I was told the gym was beyond standing room only with some especially enthusiastic fans being escorted to the exits. Good job Flyers...this year...why not you? For someone that follows the sport, it's no rocket science what "Quality" means. We are NOT saying that Loyola is a BAD team. They are after all the defending Champions. All we are trying to convey is that since Loyola has lost twice to Lewis and should they not win the MIVA (granted Lewis wins the MIVA Tournament), should they deserve an at-large bid versus Pepperdine whose currently 3rd in the MPSF or UCI or Hawaii (should Pepperdine win the MPSF Tournament). I understand completely what is implied by by the term. However, the at-large selection criteria doesn't rely on implied definitions. The question was how Loyola could be in consideration for an at large bid given their lack of quality wins. The reason is because their performance vs the selection criteria puts them in that position. It doesn't rely on someone's definiton of quality wins. If they dont win the Miva should they deserve an at large bid over Pepperdine,UCI or Hawaii,if those teams don't win the MPSF? If they better meet the criteria then yes; if not, no. Same for all teams, regardless of conference.
|
|
|
Post by Cubicle No More ... on Apr 2, 2015 1:01:49 GMT -5
For someone that follows the sport, it's no rocket science what "Quality" means. We are NOT saying that Loyola is a BAD team. They are after all the defending Champions. All we are trying to convey is that since Loyola has lost twice to Lewis and should they not win the MIVA (granted Lewis wins the MIVA Tournament), should they deserve an at-large bid versus Pepperdine whose currently 3rd in the MPSF or UCI or Hawaii (should Pepperdine win the MPSF Tournament). I understand completely what is implied by by the term. However, the at-large selection criteria doesn't rely on implied definitions. The question was how Loyola could be in consideration for an at large bid given their lack of quality wins. The reason is because their performance vs the selection criteria puts them in that position. It doesn't rely on someone's definiton of quality wins. If they dont win the Miva should they deserve an at large bid over Pepperdine,UCI or Hawaii,if those teams don't win the MPSF? If they better meet the criteria then yes; if not, no. Same for all teams, regardless of conference. but even some of that criteria isn't particularly well defined. so it's small wonder that we're left to speculate a little. it's perfectly reasonable to wonder and discuss loyola's at-large resume, including what would be considered the "quality wins" ... especially on a thread where they've lost, again, to lewis.
|
|
|
Post by vboldschool on Apr 2, 2015 9:58:19 GMT -5
I was lucky enough to be one of the guys sitting on boxes watching the Standing Room Only match. Not only was the gym packed, but every 2nd floor window on every side was packed with eyeballs. I also saw Stanford, UCLA, and Pepperdine play live. Watching courtside gives a much better impression of how good the players are. Caldwell had a rough first set (not unusual), and it was the Thomas Jaeschke show the whole set. Jaeschke had 8 kills and no errors. My guess is Dan Friend said something along the lines of "Everyone focus on stopping Jaeschke. We do that, we win the match". Jaeschke had triple blocks in front on him the rest of the night, and hit negative for the last 3 sets (11 kills 12 errors). A lot of his kills were from the back row. He was hitting from inside a phone booth from the front.
The reason I mentioned watching the California teams is that the Lewis-Loyola Match was far more physical than any of the California matches I saw. It's hard to tell unless you see it live, but both of these teams are amazing. If Lewis and Loyola don't meet in an early round, there may not be a team from Cali in the NCAA finals. If you ignore the vacated years, the last time that happened was never.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 10:10:07 GMT -5
1,226 official attendance for a supposedly 1,100 capacity arena of mostly bleachers and chairs without arm rests so everyone was really crammed in. To make matters worse, the Loyola student bus arrived about 5 minutes after the match started. The section that has been traditionally reserved for them and was last night, started to fill up with Lewis fans about 15 minutes before the match. Lewis AD John Planek (the former Loyola AD who hired Shane Davis) spent a lot of time trying to control and clear the main walkway behind the benches where the students stood. He kicked a few rowdy ones out of the arena. Kinda like old times at Loyola.
Loyola had errors galore. Lewis is putting up a good block this year and did so last night. On top of that Jaeschke and Caldwell hit out of bounds a lot. I like Lewis but after two meetings, I'm not convinced that they are that dominant. They are better than last year but not dominant. As we saw at Ohio State, Lewis is beatable. Last night they had a 19-13 lead in the 4th. Loyola came back to lead 22-21 before Lewis closed out. So there are stretches where they just become a little passive. Lewis did run on Loyola in the 2nd pretty convincingly before letting up a bit at the end. Loyola, as I've said all season (patting myself on the back) still is a notch or two behind last year's team. Caldwell is just not all there still. Despite my doubts about Lewis, I think they will take the MIVA. Prove me wrong, Ramblers!
|
|
vb01
Sophomore
Posts: 132
|
Post by vb01 on Apr 2, 2015 10:21:00 GMT -5
Can't run the middle if the passing isn't there... which it wasn't last night.
|
|
|
Post by vbsocal56 on Apr 2, 2015 10:31:24 GMT -5
Can't run the middle if the passing isn't there... which it wasn't last night. that's where Lewis has an edge. Their pins are so dynamic that they are pretty much always effective out of system.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 10:31:50 GMT -5
Horrible camera work. Having gotten that out of the way, how long will it take for Loyola to realize they aren't going to repeat with a starting RS who has the 3rd most attempts on the team that has a good night by hitting 0.000? You simply won't win with that (lack of) production from one of your 3 main hitters/pin hitters. Especially when he can't put the ball in the court from the service line and doesn't block or dig above average either. He has 1 kill and 3 errors on 4 attempts tonight with 2 service errors and hasn't made a serve yet. For the year he has 12 aces to 50 missed serves. He has 16 less blocks than their setter on the year and 30 less digs than their setter on the year, and in my opinion their setter isn't a standout defender/blocker either. At what point do they say this isn't going to win us a Natty, Caldwell needs to move to the right and Novotny moves to L2. I'm a big fan of finding a way to get your 6 best players on the court. If it means a guy who normally plays OH has to move to the RS then so be it. The production can only get better on the RS by that move, and there isn't any kind of significant drop off from Novotny to Caldwell, as we saw over the last 2 weeks when Novotny was in the starting rotation. I said the exact same thing at the match last night about moving Caldwell to opposite. However I am not sure if Caldwell is healthy enough to be playing at all at any position right now. It sure looks like he is still suffering from the abdominal strain. Loyola seemed to abandon the middle as well which was odd and bizarre to me. There were a few missed connections but I would much rather feed them than flick it back. Freshy oppo needs to be float serving, the missed roll shot serve is possibly the most infuriating thing in all of volleyball. If they move Caldwell, then Novotny has to play OH. At 6'0" he's got good hops and a fast swing but a smaller margin of error to not get blocked. Plaisted rebounded a bit over the match but on one swing, he had no block and hit a softy to the back right. Probably wasn't ready for it. Up 22-21 in the 4th coming out of the timeout, served it long. He's been inconsistent at best but I'm not sure the next option is better. Wouldn't hurt to try if the staff thinks it could work.
|
|
|
Post by kekoagoldenbear on Apr 2, 2015 10:49:13 GMT -5
I was lucky enough to be one of the guys sitting on boxes watching the Standing Room Only match. Not only was the gym packed, but every 2nd floor window on every side was packed with eyeballs. I also saw Stanford, UCLA, and Pepperdine play live. Watching courtside gives a much better impression of how good the players are. Caldwell had a rough first set (not unusual), and it was the Thomas Jaeschke show the whole set. Jaeschke had 8 kills and no errors. My guess is Dan Friend said something along the lines of "Everyone focus on stopping Jaeschke. We do that, we win the match". Jaeschke had triple blocks in front on him the rest of the night, and hit negative for the last 3 sets (11 kills 12 errors). A lot of his kills were from the back row. He was hitting from inside a phone booth from the front. The reason I mentioned watching the California teams is that the Lewis-Loyola Match was far more physical than any of the California matches I saw. It's hard to tell unless you see it live, but both of these teams are amazing. If Lewis and Loyola don't meet in an early round, there may not be a team from Cali in the NCAA finals. If you ignore the vacated years, the last time that happened was never. I'm sure everyone on this board knows both Lewis and Loyola are great teams, hence they are in the TOP 5 in both the coaches & RPI rankings. But to go as far as they are more physical than the MPSF team is a bit biased. Stanford and UCLA is not saying much considering they are in the lower half of the MPSF standings.
|
|
|
Post by vboldschool on Apr 2, 2015 11:13:39 GMT -5
You are right about UCLA and Stanford not being a good representation. I forgot how far they dropped in the polls since I saw them play. I may be wrong about Lewis/Loyola being more physical, but I don't think I'm biased; I love the California schools! It just looked like a different type of game to me. Huge guys hitting the snot out of a ball that looked undersized in their hands.
|
|
|
Post by kekoagoldenbear on Apr 2, 2015 11:46:04 GMT -5
You are right about UCLA and Stanford not being a good representation. I forgot how far they dropped in the polls since I saw them play. I may be wrong about Lewis/Loyola being more physical, but I don't think I'm biased; I love the California schools! It just looked like a different type of game to me. Huge guys hitting the snot out of a ball that looked undersized in their hands. All the top teams (Hawaii, Loyola, Pepperdine, Lewis, UCI, Penn St-peaking at the right time) can all beat on each other on any given night, since they all have Pin Hitters that can terminate and MB's that can take over a match. It will all come down to serve-receive, serving and defensive plays. BTW, Hawaii is an Ocean Away from California, so we might after all see an All-non California schools in the Championship game. LOL
|
|
|
Post by longboard56er on Apr 2, 2015 13:18:24 GMT -5
Guy's the NCAA will not waiver.The MPSF is at a disadvantage when it comes to winning the criteria battle. They play each other so much that good losses can become bad for them because they play so many solid teams that have a losing record (Lewis will not loose to an 8/8 MIVA team Pepperdine can lose to a 8/8 MPSF team). Not the case with Lewis and Loyola. Wins and losses, Head to Head, Common opponent, are just as important as RPI correct? If an MPSF team can only win 2 of the 5 main categories then they will lose the "at large battle" Look what happened last year Both Lewis and Loyola look good and are probably set unless the "Bucks" pull off the the bid double upset. Don't rule that out. At some point teams will start coming to the Mid West and East for the wins that will get them over the "At Large hurdle". Do you play to win your conference or get into the tourney? Smart money is plan on both. Good luck down the stretch.
|
|
|
Post by soljah808 on Apr 2, 2015 13:34:34 GMT -5
Guy's the NCAA will not waiver.The MPSF is at a disadvantage when it comes to winning the criteria battle. They play each other so much that good losses can become bad for them because they play so many solid teams that have a losing record (Lewis will not loose to an 8/8 MIVA team Pepperdine can lose to a 8/8 MPSF team). Not the case with Lewis and Loyola. Wins and losses, Head to Head, Common opponent, are just as important as RPI correct? If an MPSF team can only win 2 of the 5 main categories then they will lose the "at large battle" Look what happened last year Both Lewis and Loyola look good and are probably set unless the "Bucks" pull off the the bid double upset. Don't rule that out. At some point teams will start coming to the Mid West and East for the wins that will get them over the "At Large hurdle". Do you play to win your conference or get into the tourney? Smart money is plan on both. Good luck down the stretch. Which brings me to my point in another thread.....what is the point of the 12 team MPSF staying in tact? As strong as it is.... it hurts them now. Its a travesty because MPSF play really prepares teams should they make it into the NCAA's. The fact that its strong conference hurts them because they beat up on each other and a conference like the MIVA has just 2-3 teams you know is in the conversation...is terrible.
|
|
|
Post by vboldschool on Apr 2, 2015 13:49:34 GMT -5
The reason the MPSF is so strong is because the MPSF is so strong. The other conferences had to start coming out here in order to play good volleyball so they could get good. I don't think splitting the conference makes sense if your goal is to keep the good teams from "beating up on each other". It's a huge advantage to have played every good team twice before entering the tournament. That's one of the reasons LIVBC, Ultimate, Bootlegger, etc.. have started making the trek to the SoCal Qualifier. They don't want to show up at nationals never having seen Balboa, 949, HBC, SCVC, and the other top guns. Do you think Loyola really wants to waste time driving 5 hours to play McKendree or flying to play Grand Canyon? Be glad the MPSF is so strong. A rising tide lifts all boats.
|
|