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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 22:47:28 GMT -5
This is (relatively) interesting:
Champions by decade
1980s 3 Hawaii 2 Pacific 1 Long Beach State, Texas, UCLA, USC
1990s 4 Stanford 2 Long Beach State, UCLA 1 Nebraska, Penn State
2000s 3 Penn State 2 Nebraska, Stanford, USC 1 Washington
2010s 3 Penn State 1 Texas, UCLA
Final Fours by decade
1980s 6 UCLA 6 Stanford 5 Pacific 4 Hawaii 3 Texas 3 USC 2 Nebraska 2 Illinois 2 San Diego St 1 San Jose St 1 LBSU 1 Texas-Arlington
1990s 6 LBSU 6 Stanford 5 PSU 5 Florida 4 Nebraska 4 UCLA 2 LSU 2 Pacific 2 Ohio State 1 BYU 1 Hawaii 1 Michigan St 1 Texas
2000s 6 Stanford 5 Nebraska 5 USC 4 Hawaii 3 PSU 3 Minnesota 3 Washington 2 Florida 2 Texas 1 Wisconsin 1 LBSU 1 Arizona 1 Santa Clara 1 Tennessee 1 UCLA 1 California
2010s 4 PSU 4 Texas 2 USC 1 California 1 UCLA 1 Illinois 1 FSU 1 Oregon 1 Michigan 1 Wisconsin 1 Washington 1 BYU 1 Stanford
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 22:50:13 GMT -5
Only UCLA and PSU have won in 3 separate decades, fwiw.
And, fwiw, the only double digit final four participants are 6 of BiK's 7 teams, with Hawaii right behind:
19 Stanford 12 UCLA 12 PSU 11 Nebraska 10 USC 10 Texas 9 Hawaii
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on May 29, 2015 23:00:56 GMT -5
Only UCLA and PSU have won in 3 separate decades, fwiw. And, fwiw, the only double digit final four participants are 6 of BiK's 7 teams, with Hawaii right behind: 18 Stanford 12 UCLA 11 Nebraska 11 PSU 10 USC 10 Texas 9 Hawaii Weren't you trying to omit UCLA from the list of "traditional" powers?
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Post by volleyguy on May 29, 2015 23:04:57 GMT -5
Only UCLA and PSU have won in 3 separate decades, fwiw. And, fwiw, the only double digit final four participants are 6 of BiK's 7 teams, with Hawaii right behind: 18 Stanford 12 UCLA 11 Nebraska 11 PSU 10 USC 10 Texas 9 Hawaii What you just posted demonstrates why I find your original argument puzzling. Both Penn State and USC missed a decade. UCLA and Penn State both have won in 3 separate decades (Gimmillaro deeply regrets losing that 2001 final precisely because it dropped him from this group).
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Post by jsn112 on May 30, 2015 0:17:48 GMT -5
Only UCLA and PSU have won in 3 separate decades, fwiw. And, fwiw, the only double digit final four participants are 6 of BiK's 7 teams, with Hawaii right behind: 18 Stanford 12 UCLA 11 Nebraska 11 PSU 10 USC 10 Texas 9 Hawaii What you just posted demonstrates why I find your original argument puzzling. Both Penn State and USC missed a decade. UCLA and Penn State both have won in 3 separate decades (Gimmillaro deeply regrets losing that 2001 final precisely because it dropped him from this group). You really can't count the 80's for Penn State when they were running the team with only 3 scholarships (yes, Dorothy, that's "3"). Start when they joined the Big 10 starting in '91. Also, I wouldn't count Texas as traditional "yet." Too bad Long Beach is not included because I remember how dominant they were with Misty May back then.
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Post by volleyguy on May 30, 2015 0:30:48 GMT -5
What you just posted demonstrates why I find your original argument puzzling. Both Penn State and USC missed a decade. UCLA and Penn State both have won in 3 separate decades (Gimmillaro deeply regrets losing that 2001 final precisely because it dropped him from this group). You really can't count the 80's for Penn State when they were running the team with only 3 scholarships (yes, Dorothy, that's "3"). Start when they joined the Big 10 starting in '91. Also, I wouldn't count Texas as traditional "yet." Too bad Long Beach is not included because I remember how dominant they were with Misty May back then. Whether or not PSU had full scholarships doesn't really have any bearing on being "traditional". They still managed to make the tourney. And why wouldn't you count Texas? They won an AIAW championship, as well as an NCAA championship in the 80's (which Penn State didn't do until the 90's)
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Post by jsn112 on May 30, 2015 1:00:31 GMT -5
You really can't count the 80's for Penn State when they were running the team with only 3 scholarships (yes, Dorothy, that's "3"). Start when they joined the Big 10 starting in '91. Also, I wouldn't count Texas as traditional "yet." Too bad Long Beach is not included because I remember how dominant they were with Misty May back then. Whether or not PSU had full scholarships doesn't really have any bearing on being "traditional". They still managed to make the tourney. And why wouldn't you count Texas? They won an AIAW championship, as well as an NCAA championship in the 80's (which Penn State didn't do until the 90's) Because Texas were/are too sporadic for me. I want to see some consistency from them first. That's why I say "yet." Currently, the only consistency I see from them is making the final four. As an analogy, Buffalo Bills lost the SuperBowl four straight years. Were they a dynasty? I don't think they are. I think they are on the cusp though. Texas, I mean. They still lose to teams with less talents quite too often in the NCAA the last couple of years.
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Post by volleyguy on May 30, 2015 1:11:55 GMT -5
Whether or not PSU had full scholarships doesn't really have any bearing on being "traditional". They still managed to make the tourney. And why wouldn't you count Texas? They won an AIAW championship, as well as an NCAA championship in the 80's (which Penn State didn't do until the 90's) Because Texas were/are too sporadic for me. I want to see some consistency from them first. That's why I say "yet." Currently, the only consistency I see from them is making the final four. As an analogy, Buffalo Bills lost the SuperBowl four straight years. Were they a dynasty? I don't think they are. I think they are on the cusp though. Texas, I mean. They still lose to teams with less talents quite too often in the NCAA. I don't disagree with your evaluation of Texas in terms of the character of the teams, but the data surely establishes them as a power, now and much earlier. Moreover, Penn State in the 90's was compared to the Buffalo Bills, until they broke through in '99,
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Post by jsn112 on May 30, 2015 1:18:20 GMT -5
Because Texas were/are too sporadic for me. I want to see some consistency from them first. That's why I say "yet." Currently, the only consistency I see from them is making the final four. As an analogy, Buffalo Bills lost the SuperBowl four straight years. Were they a dynasty? I don't think they are. I think they are on the cusp though. Texas, I mean. They still lose to teams with less talents quite too often in the NCAA. I don't disagree with your evaluation of Texas in terms of the character of the teams, but the data surely establishes them as a power, now and much earlier. Moreover, Penn State in the 90's was compared to the Buffalo Bills, until they broke through in '99, No doubt on Penn State. But they finally achieved the consistency one would expect from a traditional power program. I think if Texas win at least one more title the next couple of years, and not lose to teams with lesser talents, then I think they are worthy.
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Post by volleyguy on May 30, 2015 1:47:44 GMT -5
I don't disagree with your evaluation of Texas in terms of the character of the teams, but the data surely establishes them as a power, now and much earlier. Moreover, Penn State in the 90's was compared to the Buffalo Bills, until they broke through in '99, No doubt on Penn State. But they finally achieved the consistency one would expect from a traditional power program. I think if Texas win at least one more title the next couple of years, and not lose to teams with lesser talents, then I think they are worthy. I understand, and not to belabor the point (too late, Iknow), but we're defining traditional powers, not dynasties. What PSU has done recently may not be duplicated again in women's vb, but Texas' 6 FF appearances in 7 years will also be hard for anyone to match in the future.
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Post by g8rvball on May 30, 2015 8:18:33 GMT -5
This is (relatively) interesting: Champions by decadeFinal Fours by decade1980s 6 UCLA 6 Stanford 5 Pacific 4 Hawaii 3 Texas 3 USC 2 Nebraska 2 Illinois 2 San Diego St 1 San Jose St 1 LBSU 1 Texas-Arlington 1990s 5 LBSU 5 Stanford 4 PSU 4 Nebraska 4 Florida 4 UCLA 2 LSU 2 Pacific 2 Ohio State 1 BYU 1 Hawaii 1 Michigan St 1 Texas 2000s 6 Stanford 5 Nebraska 5 USC 4 Hawaii 3 PSU 3 Minnesota 3 Washington 2 Florida 2 Texas 1 Wisconsin 1 LBSU 1 Arizona 1 Santa Clara 1 Tennessee 1 UCLA 1 California 2010s 4 PSU 4 Texas 2 USC 1 California 1 UCLA 1 Illinois 1 FSU 1 Oregon 1 Michigan 1 Wisconsin 1 Washington 1 BYU 1 Stanford FWIW, UF made 5 final fours in the 90s, not 4. (92,93,96,97,98).
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Post by dorothymantooth on May 30, 2015 12:16:18 GMT -5
This is (relatively) interesting: Champions by decadeFinal Fours by decade1980s 6 UCLA 6 Stanford 5 Pacific 4 Hawaii 3 Texas 3 USC 2 Nebraska 2 Illinois 2 San Diego St 1 San Jose St 1 LBSU 1 Texas-Arlington 1990s 5 LBSU 5 Stanford 4 PSU 4 Nebraska 4 Florida 4 UCLA 2 LSU 2 Pacific 2 Ohio State 1 BYU 1 Hawaii 1 Michigan St 1 Texas 2000s 6 Stanford 5 Nebraska 5 USC 4 Hawaii 3 PSU 3 Minnesota 3 Washington 2 Florida 2 Texas 1 Wisconsin 1 LBSU 1 Arizona 1 Santa Clara 1 Tennessee 1 UCLA 1 California 2010s 4 PSU 4 Texas 2 USC 1 California 1 UCLA 1 Illinois 1 FSU 1 Oregon 1 Michigan 1 Wisconsin 1 Washington 1 BYU 1 Stanford FWIW, UF made 5 final fours in the 90s, not 4. (92,93,96,97,98). FF's are far less significant before they went to a true "national tournament"
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2015 12:19:40 GMT -5
FWIW, UF made 5 final fours in the 90s, not 4. (92,93,96,97,98). Revised. I think I missed a year. Some other schools were wrong, too. Added 1 to LBSU, PSU, Stanford and Florida.
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Post by volleyguy on May 30, 2015 13:05:56 GMT -5
FWIW, UF made 5 final fours in the 90s, not 4. (92,93,96,97,98). FF's are far less significant before they went to a true "national tournament" Why do you believe it's less significant? There weren't enough quality teams for a 64 team format, but the concentration of talent was there among the top teams, similar to the men's game now.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2015 13:08:47 GMT -5
Only UCLA and PSU have won in 3 separate decades, fwiw. And, fwiw, the only double digit final four participants are 6 of BiK's 7 teams, with Hawaii right behind: 18 Stanford 12 UCLA 11 Nebraska 11 PSU 10 USC 10 Texas 9 Hawaii Weren't you trying to omit UCLA from the list of "traditional" powers? My viewpoint is evolving. You're supposed to be impressed, not mocking.
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