|
Post by tommyboy on Nov 24, 2015 2:22:43 GMT -5
And who has Hawaii beat this year? No one! Florida I guess, but that doesn't look all that impressive now. Many years they deserve a seed, this was not one of them.
|
|
|
Post by ancksunamun on Nov 24, 2015 2:40:51 GMT -5
For a team to go nearly unscathed after 27 matches (26-1) says a lot about a team. Yes, their SOS wasn't as strong as years past (out of Dave's control) but they did have more wins than losses against ranked teams in the AVCA poll. Most Hawai'i fans know that we probably won't host a subregional but it doesn't hurt to be optimistic. We fans have a lot be excited about and look forward to the tournament next weekend. Go Wahine!
|
|
|
Post by BeachbytheBay on Nov 24, 2015 15:04:58 GMT -5
I'm not seeing how Long Beach is getting "screwed." Who are their quality wins this year? San Diego and Marymount. They also lost to St. Mary's, IL State, and Cal Poly. So they've beat two tournament teams and lost to three that won't be in the tournament. I think they have a case to be in, but I don't see anything that would make me upset if they were left out. that's a very simplistic analsys - LB has one 'bad loss' to St. Mary's, & keep in mind St. Mary's is rated way lower by RPI than Massey LB is #37 in Massey, probably will be the highest rated Massey team left out Il State & Cal Poly are good teams LB beat Harvard, and if they beat Denver Saturday, that would be 2 additional tourney teams they've beat it comes down to RPI - the Big West & WCC are the two conferences 'devalued' by RPI the most - and it's a huge devaluing for both conferences by RPI - there's no other conferences that get screwed by RPI the way the Big West & WCC do if you look at the nitty-gritty of teams from 40-60, LB compares very favorably, that is unless you ONLY use RPI, even then they compare ok with other teams
|
|
|
Post by jake on Nov 24, 2015 15:24:25 GMT -5
I'm not seeing how Long Beach is getting "screwed." Who are their quality wins this year? San Diego and Marymount. They also lost to St. Mary's, IL State, and Cal Poly. So they've beat two tournament teams and lost to three that won't be in the tournament. I think they have a case to be in, but I don't see anything that would make me upset if they were left out. We are talking RPI here,...not how many quality wins or bad losses a team has logged during their season. No team should be penalized for beating another team in their conference. Meaning a team's RPI cannot go lower with a win,...it may maintain its status quo,...that's OK. NOTE: A team has no control over scheduled conference matches,...and, therefore cannot and should not be penalized. Q.E.D.
|
|
|
Post by tommyboy on Nov 24, 2015 17:03:20 GMT -5
My point was not that LB shouldn't be in, but that it wasn't the grand upset that everyone in this thread is making it out to be. St. Mary's was a bad loss, IL ST and Cal Poly are good teams, but not tournament teams.
The bottom line is that they know they are in this situation every year and they should watch who they schedule. They know that playing Rutgers is going to kill them in the RPI, why go to a tournament with them. You know the rules to the game before you schedule and should take that into account.
Once again, I'm not saying that they are undeserving, just that they are on the bubble with everyone else. And if you're on the bubble you leave your fate in others hands.
|
|
|
Post by BeachbytheBay on Nov 24, 2015 19:57:01 GMT -5
My point was not that LB shouldn't be in, but that it wasn't the grand upset that everyone in this thread is making it out to be. St. Mary's was a bad loss, IL ST and Cal Poly are good teams, but not tournament teams. The bottom line is that they know they are in this situation every year and they should watch who they schedule. They know that playing Rutgers is going to kill them in the , why go to a tournament with them. You know the rules to the game before you schedule and should take that into account. Once again, I'm not saying that they are undeserving, just that they are on the bubble with everyone else. And if you're on the bubble you leave your fate in others hands. lol - sorry but you are way off! they DID watch who they scheduled!! they DID take that into account! last year's winning % record of their OOC opponents was 65%! they scheduled 9 tourney teams OOC from last year - what in hades else are they supposed to do - they schedule a lot of eastern teams sorry, but when I see posts like yours over and over, like it's a snap to 'game' - I shake my head if you look at LB's OOC schedule before the year started, you'd think they had a very good schedule - and then a lot of previous good opponents fell way short - they ended up with the worst SOS, but it wasn't because of poor scheduling by LB - that in part is why RPI is so frggn frustrating!!! especially to the WCC & Big West who get regularly hosed by it Massey & Pablo don't penalize you like for scheduling quirks OUT of A TEAM's CONTROL!!!! it's part of the problem with !!
|
|
|
Post by tommyboy on Nov 25, 2015 0:22:19 GMT -5
You obviously have a lot more invested than me. I disagree with you and that's fine, but isn't the RPI cutoff usually around 40-45? So even if we use the Pablo ranking they are still on the bubble while they are sitting at 40.
|
|
|
Post by BeachbytheBay on Nov 25, 2015 0:53:59 GMT -5
You obviously have a lot more invested than me. I disagree with you and that's fine, but isn't the cutoff usually around 40-45? So even if we use the Pablo ranking they are still on the bubble while they are sitting at 40. that's not the point, even with Pablo you shouldn't use a 'cutoff' Pablo is also a predictive tool, not necessarily a ranking tool - but it would be better than RPI, which doesn't really have a solid statistical basis a combination of Pablo & Massey would be best - the point is the evaluation of 'quality' wins is downright horrific with RPI and yes, they would be a bubble team with Massey or Pablo, the point is that Massey or Pablo doesn't penalize a team for scheduling issues OUT OF THE TEAM's CONTROL, and DOESN"T PENALIZE certain conferences - that's the problem
|
|
|
Post by tommyboy on Nov 25, 2015 1:10:43 GMT -5
I'm just going to let this one go. You want your team in, I get it.
|
|
|
Post by BeachbytheBay on Nov 25, 2015 4:13:49 GMT -5
I'm just going to let this one go. You want your team in, I get it. nope, like a lot of people outside the WCC or Big West, you don't really 'get it' nothing in your posts indicate that
|
|
|
Post by internationalball on Nov 25, 2015 4:59:43 GMT -5
And who has Hawaii beat this year? No one! Florida I guess, but that doesn't look all that impressive now. Many years they deserve a seed, this was not one of them. The real question is, who wants to face Hawaii in the first and second rounds? This is the most physical team they've had in years, and also the top blocking team in the country. They also have the best Opposite in the country. I mean people can say all they want, but the truth of the matter is no one wants Hawaii as a first or second round opponent.
|
|
|
Post by tommyboy on Nov 25, 2015 9:07:31 GMT -5
I'm just going to let this one go. You want your team in, I get it. nope, like a lot of people outside the WCC or Big West, you don't really 'get it' nothing in your posts indicate that All of us that understand the math 'get it'; we're tired of hearing your whining every year. Yes there is a slight disadvantage, but your delusions of grandeur for your home school is annoying. Nothing, not the RPI, Pablo, or Massey say that LB should be a lock this year. They lack enough big wins to balance out their few mediocre losses to put them in that category. Whether you believe it is scheduling, the conference being down, a horrible east coast bias or just bad luck, there is no metric that puts them outside of the bubble besides your own thoughts and prayers. Brian is a legendary coach and they have a good team (yes I've seen them play) so I hope they get in.
|
|
|
Post by tommyboy on Nov 25, 2015 9:13:46 GMT -5
And who has Hawaii beat this year? No one! Florida I guess, but that doesn't look all that impressive now. Many years they deserve a seed, this was not one of them. The real question is, who wants to face Hawaii in the first and second rounds? This is the most physical team they've had in years, and also the top blocking team in the country. They also have the best Opposite in the country. I mean people can say all they want, but the truth of the matter is no one wants Hawaii as a first or second round opponent. Hawaii is talented, but I'd love to see them leave the island once during the pre-season or at least bring in some tougher team as in years past. No one really knows what they are yet because they haven't played anyone in the top 25 for a long time. I agree though, no one wants to find out.
|
|
|
Post by BeachbytheBay on Nov 25, 2015 10:37:09 GMT -5
lol, you still don't 'get it' Massey would make LB a lock team, Pablo less so nothing in your posts indicates you really understand the 'math' that devalues by compounding use of RPI has on the WCC & Big West conference collectively approximately 100 pts and, even worse, creates the impression of teams having fewer 'quality' matches and more 'bad' losses than they actually have, even when a conference such as the Big West is down LB would have an additional 3 top 100 wins and an additional top 50 win in Massey it would not get in RPI - that's not 'slight' at all, when comparing bubble teams and call it whining? , yes it is!, the Big West & WCC are entitled to 'whine' against the institutional rating system that leads a LOT of ignorant people (not saying you necessarily) to perceive their teams to not be as good as they actually are - the 'whining' yearly is justified when conferences get devalued year after year - get used to it you are tired whining ? well too bad!!!, lol, try being tired of seeing your region getting hosed year after year - sounds like a bureaucratic (NCAA) response
|
|
|
Post by BeachbytheBay on Nov 25, 2015 11:19:21 GMT -5
nope, like a lot of people outside the WCC or Big West, you don't really 'get it' nothing in your posts indicate that ... Nothing, not the RPI, Pablo, or Massey say that LB should be a lock this year. They lack enough big wins to balance out their few mediocre losses to put them in that category. ...quote] going by RPI: the Big West has 2 top 100 teams (LB & Haw), and LB's record is 0-2 against the Big West top 100 going by Massey: the Big West has FIVE top 100 teams (LB, Haw, Poly, Irvine, Davis), and LB's record is 5-3 against the Big West top 100 in Hawaii's case, Hawaii would be 2-0 against the Big West top 50, and 8-0 against the Big West top 100, that Hawaii is NOT getting credit for, it's not insignificant in the least for how either either team is being evaluated with RPI this year that's how bad RPI undervalues the Big West - so it is NOT insignificant by any stretch
|
|