Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 19:54:02 GMT -5
Boom and there it is...Hold on...I need to go get a soda/pop...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 19:55:07 GMT -5
Ok...I'm back...continue...This is good stuff for my summer term paper...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 19:57:24 GMT -5
I don't think I've made the argument that I think that what he allegedly did was okay. I certainly don't believe that. Correct, your argument has been that the only way a rapist should be found guilty is if an unbiased witness is in the room or it is caught on film. My argument? I don't think that this is my argument so much as it is the idea posed by our judicial system... I don't understand why the concept of proving guilt is so egregious to you. I honestly wish that these women had the chance to tell their stories in court.
|
|
|
Post by chisovnik on Aug 1, 2015 20:14:36 GMT -5
Well, you're pretty much saying that it didn't. I'm not. I've said several times that it is very possible that it did happen. It's also very possible that it didn't. I have no idea if it did, but again, I am unwilling to participate in the destruction of this man's life and reputation anonymously on the internet based on something that was never proven. Notice that I also am not attacking the integrity of the accusers. Butler is sitting pretty right now. He's the most successful club coach in the country and has made a fortune for himself and his family. No one is "destroying" his life. These allegations are old news. Anyone who knows anything about volleyball (especially in the Chicagoland area) already knows about them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 20:25:42 GMT -5
I don't think I've made the argument that I think that what he allegedly did was okay. I certainly don't believe that. The entire discussion you and I had throughout this thread was centered around the fact that you found these acts to be moral. This is your quote from page 11 of this thread, posted on July 27, 2015 at 11:37 am: "The scenario you're posing still involves two consenting adult human beings. There is nothing immoral or illegal about two adults in a consenting sexual relationship. So, yes, I find it morally acceptable for two consenting adult human beings to date and have personal relations." Read more: volleytalk.net/thread/59367/rick-butler-on-outside-lines?page=11#ixzz3hcHyh3ZC
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 20:38:16 GMT -5
I don't think I've made the argument that I think that what he allegedly did was okay. I certainly don't believe that. The entire discussion you and I had throughout this thread was centered around the fact that you found these acts to be moral. This is your quote from page 11 of this thread, posted on July 27, 2015 at 11:37 am: "The scenario you're posing still involves two consenting adult human beings. There is nothing immoral or illegal about two adults in a consenting sexual relationship. So, yes, I find it morally acceptable for two consenting adult human beings to date and have personal relations." Read more: volleytalk.net/thread/59367/rick-butler-on-outside-lines?page=11#ixzz3hcHyh3ZCIt was not alleged that he had sexual relationships with adults. He was accused of having sexual relationships with minors.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 20:44:33 GMT -5
Who sat on the ethics committee?
|
|
|
Post by VBCOACH on Aug 1, 2015 20:57:18 GMT -5
So I will just ask you this: Are the three women (now) lying when two of them said they had sex with Butler when they were 16 and one when she was 17? Answer that question for me. How could I possibly know if they're lying? Hey, I'll help you answer that question. I talked to my lawyer. I asked, If 1 girl accuses someone of rape and he denies it, and there is no physical evidence, who wins in a court of law? He says the girl probably loses. Her word against his. But if 3 girls say he raped them, they win EVERY time, even without any physical evidence. Now you know that he did it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 20:59:49 GMT -5
That is quick access to your lawyer on the weekend. You must use them a lot.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 21:01:35 GMT -5
Plus this would save court time. No need to hear any testimony. Right?
|
|
|
Post by ciscokeed on Aug 1, 2015 21:13:50 GMT -5
I posted much earlier in this thread. There is no doubt that this is a really difficult and volatile subject. As I said before this is a Shakesperean drama in its scope. But for those posters who question the veracity of the young women who voiced their anguish so many years ago how dare you I knew two of the accusers very well. Rick Butler abused them. As high schoolers! Get that FACT straight... And understand rape and sexual abuse. It has nothing to do with sex- it is about control. And ponder whether control is still a big part of the Butler experience
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 21:16:21 GMT -5
The entire discussion you and I had throughout this thread was centered around the fact that you found these acts to be moral. This is your quote from page 11 of this thread, posted on July 27, 2015 at 11:37 am: "The scenario you're posing still involves two consenting adult human beings. There is nothing immoral or illegal about two adults in a consenting sexual relationship. So, yes, I find it morally acceptable for two consenting adult human beings to date and have personal relations." Read more: volleytalk.net/thread/59367/rick-butler-on-outside-lines?page=11#ixzz3hcHyh3ZCIt was not alleged that he had sexual relationships with adults. He was accused of having sexual relationships with minors. I am aware of the allegations. You stated that Mr. Butler contends all of the girls were at least 18, which is why I phrased my question in the manner in which I did. You confirmed that you found the acts to be moral if all of the girls were 18. (I made the assumption that you would not do the same if they were minors). Repeatedly throughout this thread you vouch support for him, yet you're quoted above as saying you don't believe what he is accused of is okay.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 21:32:27 GMT -5
... I wasn't there, you weren't there, no one in this thread was there. None of us definitively know what happened, and unfortunately, because of legalities and technicalities, we likely won't ever know. Could it have happened? Sure. Could it all be a lie? Sure, but no one posting in this thread actually knows because none of us have enough information to know.... The above quote is the most logical, unemotional, unbiased response on this thread. Yes, it is unemotional, unbiased and is the perfect excuse for someone to look away and keep walking when they see a crime happening. You see this attitude in large cities. I did not know for sure the person was being mugged, and if they were being mugged something that did know more than I would have called 911. There are even stories about this. Their statement, if accepted by everyone in the USA could save billions. We could eliminate the vast majority of our justice system if crimes were only punished if a judge was present for the crime. Imagine how much we can save.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 21:38:31 GMT -5
The above quote is the most logical, unemotional, unbiased response on this thread. Yes, it is unemotional, unbiased and is the perfect excuse for someone to look away and keep walking when they see a crime happening. You see this attitude in large cities. I did not know for sure the person was being mugged, and if they were being mugged something that did know more than I would have called 911. There are even stories about this. Their statement, if accepted by everyone in the USA could save billions. We could eliminate the vast majority of our justice system if crimes were only punished if a judge was present for the crime. Imagine how much we can save. I believe that the term is called 'bystander effect'.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 21:42:18 GMT -5
The interesting thing about this thread is how it demonstrates how an individual's comments are twisted from their original meaning to serve the purpose for one's arguement.
|
|