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Post by Voleibol!!!!!! on Aug 29, 2015 14:27:09 GMT -5
Without the dual role schools would not be able to afford both sports. Same also goes for tennis, cross country, and track and field. Ram amber, many of these schools have part-time women's coaches. They add the men's side and can make it a full time position. It's still beneficial to have a dual coach or a part time coach who has to have a full time job? That may be true, however, if you want to compete at the highest level and recruit top level talent like the new Arcadia coach is talking about, it will be very difficult. One of the programs is going to suffer. Plus, if you have a PT women's coach just hire a PT men's coach then each program has their very own coach. That would be far better than making the former PT coach into a FT coach. Also, the school save on benefits and retirement and everything else that comes with being FT. Additionally, dual volleyball coaches is no where the same as dual cross country and track and field. Yes, those coaches coach in the fall and the spring but when it comes to recruiting all the athletes (male and female) are at the same events. You recruit at state cross country, both sexes are there same with track. Volleyball is separate season with over lapping recruiting periods. How many dual volleyball coaches are out there that are successful? MIT - he goes to 1 maybe 2 events, but mostly the school recruits itself Naz - not sure what the successful level is like with the women's team but I don't think they are awful
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D3 in 2016
Aug 29, 2015 15:18:15 GMT -5
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Post by volleyball20102011 on Aug 29, 2015 15:18:15 GMT -5
Without the dual role schools would not be able to afford both sports. Same also goes for tennis, cross country, and track and field. Ram amber, many of these schools have part-time women's coaches. They add the men's side and can make it a full time position. It's still beneficial to have a dual coach or a part time coach who has to have a full time job? That may be true, however, if you want to compete at the highest level and recruit top level talent like the new Arcadia coach is talking about, it will be very difficult. One of the programs is going to suffer. Plus, if you have a PT women's coach just hire a PT men's coach then each program has their very own coach. That would be far better than making the former PT coach into a FT coach. Also, the school save on benefits and retirement and everything else that comes with being FT. Additionally, dual volleyball coaches is no where the same as dual cross country and track and field. Yes, those coaches coach in the fall and the spring but when it comes to recruiting all the athletes (male and female) are at the same events. You recruit at state cross country, both sexes are there same with track. Volleyball is separate season with over lapping recruiting periods. How many dual volleyball coaches are out there that are successful? MIT - he goes to 1 maybe 2 events, but mostly the school recruits itself Naz - not sure what the successful level is like with the women's team but I don't think they are awful Couldn't disagree with you more. Number of reasons: 1) Another full-time coach for our sport (men's, women's or duel), the better our sport will be. 2) Yes, splitting the position into two roles (like Kean has recently done) is best. However, not all schools will fork up the resources for it. A PT coach means that a coach isn't really going to allocate the time (office, film, meetings, and yes...recruiting) like a FT coach is. Usually a PT coach has another FT job and isn't going to recruit at the level needed to win a conference, be top-15, ect. 3) Cal at Naz and Paul at MIT are anomalies. Yes they coach two teams. But look at the number of assistants they have! They've got tons of help and are both located in thriving cities. If they need to miss practice to recruit, they can. If they need to send assistants to recruit, they can. Both are also at good schools (MIT bring one of the best in the country). How many other duel coaches last year were top 15? Evan at Wentworth. Steve at Elmira assists the women's. Cal and Paul. Keith at Medaille just took over the women's program. Others? 4) How many PT coaches are highly successful? Mt St Joes is the only one I can really think of. 5) If a coach is just a FT men's coach at D-3 it usually comes with other assigned duties (non-volleyball related). Charlie at Speingfield teaches. Many other coaches do game management. So the question I have is, would you rather have coaching another volleyball team as you second duty or having a non-volleyball related duty as a second duty (assuming you had to have one)? 6) If you're just coaching men's, have no other duties, and are FT you really have a ton of free time. D-3 isn't nearly D-1 in terms of recruiting and practice schedule. Coaching two teams may be a little overload, but if supported properly (assistants, GA position, good recruiting budget) it's doable.
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Post by Voleibol!!!!!! on Aug 29, 2015 17:01:11 GMT -5
That may be true, however, if you want to compete at the highest level and recruit top level talent like the new Arcadia coach is talking about, it will be very difficult. One of the programs is going to suffer. Plus, if you have a PT women's coach just hire a PT men's coach then each program has their very own coach. That would be far better than making the former PT coach into a FT coach. Also, the school save on benefits and retirement and everything else that comes with being FT. Additionally, dual volleyball coaches is no where the same as dual cross country and track and field. Yes, those coaches coach in the fall and the spring but when it comes to recruiting all the athletes (male and female) are at the same events. You recruit at state cross country, both sexes are there same with track. Volleyball is separate season with over lapping recruiting periods. How many dual volleyball coaches are out there that are successful? MIT - he goes to 1 maybe 2 events, but mostly the school recruits itself Naz - not sure what the successful level is like with the women's team but I don't think they are awful Couldn't disagree with you more. Number of reasons: 1) Another full-time coach for our sport (men's, women's or duel), the better our sport will be. 2) Yes, splitting the position into two roles (like Kean has recently done) is best. However, not all schools will fork up the resources for it. A PT coach means that a coach isn't really going to allocate the time (office, film, meetings, and yes...recruiting) like a FT coach is. Usually a PT coach has another FT job and isn't going to recruit at the level needed to win a conference, be top-15, ect. 3) Cal at Naz and Paul at MIT are anomalies. Yes they coach two teams. But look at the number of assistants they have! They've got tons of help and are both located in thriving cities. If they need to miss practice to recruit, they can. If they need to send assistants to recruit, they can. Both are also at good schools (MIT bring one of the best in the country). How many other duel coaches last year were top 15? Evan at Wentworth. Steve at Elmira assists the women's. Cal and Paul. Keith at Medaille just took over the women's program. Others? 4) How many PT coaches are highly successful? Mt St Joes is the only one I can really think of. 5) If a coach is just a FT men's coach at D-3 it usually comes with other assigned duties (non-volleyball related). Charlie at Speingfield teaches. Many other coaches do game management. So the question I have is, would you rather have coaching another volleyball team as you second duty or having a non-volleyball related duty as a second duty (assuming you had to have one)? 6) If you're just coaching men's, have no other duties, and are FT you really have a ton of free time. D-3 isn't nearly D-1 in terms of recruiting and practice schedule. Coaching two teams may be a little overload, but if supported properly (assistants, GA position, good recruiting budget) it's doable. I agree that a duel coach allows time to be in the office, conduct meeting but recruiting remains difficult. Even if they have support there assistant will be PT and will most likely have another job, so they are out. It works at Naz because he has GA's so he is able to send them recruiting. As I stated earlier, MIT recruits itself and Paul is out recruiting very little. Evan and Steve are duel coaches but not duel HC! I would rather see that than have a single person HC for both men and womens volleyball. They assist and are not solely responsible. Hunter, Baruch, MSOE, Mt. St. Joe's are all PT positions and all had decent seasons. I think UCSC was even PT but I'm not sure. If I had to choose, I would take teaching, game management, facilities, IM's and even assistant coaching. But HC in multiple sports is not the best situation. Yes, some can make it work or 2 make it work but as you said they are anomalies.
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Post by donneyp on Sept 3, 2015 10:19:18 GMT -5
When I got to Kean there was no men's volleyball in any form and the women were 7-17. I could recruit anyone, run any drill, and schedule any opponent and it was a step in the right direction. The women's season was over in late October, before the men's non-traditional started, and my first season with the men I was done in March, made it to two qualifiers and had a full non-traditional season with the women's team.
2-3 years later the men's program is in the NCAAs, the women are in the conference semi's and the ECACs. Most recruits who contact you cannot help you anymore so you need to work harder there too. You now need to watch film to figure out what drills you need to be running, and if you don't spend enough time on your schedule the AVCA and NCAA short you because they don't like your strength of schedule... so now even scheduling requires more research if you want to do it right. Oh, and the women's season now ran into mid-November and the men went through April. 6-7 weeks of the year you are running two practices a day - 5 hours on court and at least an hour of prep to plan those practices.
Running two programs is not that difficult if you have modest expectations, or even if one program is a higher priority than the other. But I couldn't look at either team and feel like they were any less deserving than the other team so I kept pushing in both directions and in the Spring of 2013 between practices, matches, fundraising, office work, etc I worked 70+ full days in row and was still behind - I was spread too thin. I asked for help and rather than give up any of the ground they had gained in either sport, Kean split the job. If I had only built the programs based on what I could comfortably manage, I might still be coaching both teams.
If you had asked them to split the job before they had a team, before they were certain what the costs would be just to operate the team, I don't think they ever would have added the program. We added it and they got a handle on what it entailed and saw the potential and 3 years later it was a much different conversation. I'd rather see the programs add with a dual coach than not add at all. Build a team. Build a following. Win some matches and do it the right way. Show the administration why it's worth the investment, and then see if you can get them to split the jobs.
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Post by oshkoshdadmjs on Sept 3, 2015 11:33:28 GMT -5
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Post by september on Sept 3, 2015 13:49:56 GMT -5
Does that make 78 total teams in D3 for this year? So 78 divided by 6.5 would be 12 bids, correct? That would be exciting!
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Post by gopackgo on Sept 3, 2015 20:54:02 GMT -5
Does that make 78 total teams in D3 for this year? So 78 divided by 6.5 would be 12 bids, correct? That would be exciting! Any news if Illinois Tech will join the MCVL?
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Post by turosan on Sept 4, 2015 16:13:17 GMT -5
Interesting, but that would make 15. Maybe a north and a south. Need a couple more Indiana or Ohio schools to ad!!!!
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Post by volleyball20102011 on Sept 4, 2015 16:42:52 GMT -5
We will continue to see tremendous growth out in the Midwest. There are tons of schools out there, and being located in a hot bed it makes a lot of sense. Look to see another conference (or two) adding the sport. It'll be similar to what the CVC did with the split.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 9:56:15 GMT -5
Meow meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow meow meow. Meoowwww meowwww meowwww meow meow meow.
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Post by Semp12 on Sept 8, 2015 12:58:06 GMT -5
This thread is getting a little intense with the Coaching discussion.
Ideally every school hires a FT Head for Women, then another FT Head for the men. In fact, it'd be best if each team had 3 full-time coaches. Realistically though, schools see the 15 kids per roster, and no real reason to do that right away. For the PT coaches out there who really want to make this a career, of course they would take FT duties and would want to add the additional team to their plate. It is doable, but not easy. That's why you see the Conference Carolina's with so much coaching turnover in my opinion (although without researching, even they have split more than when they started however many years ago). With excellent Assistant Coaches, who can help to run out of season activities and recruit, that also helps to make the duel-role do-able. I agree with Don above, the work has to get put in for it to happen and that duel-role is a way for an ambitious coach to make a name for themselves at the college level with simple hard work.
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Post by volleyball20102011 on Sept 8, 2015 14:38:08 GMT -5
You're never going to see 3 full-time coaches in volleyball (men's or women's) at the D-3 level. Just not going to happen. In fact, I can't really think of any full-time just men's assistant coaches at the D-3 level. A few programs do have full-time assistants that are also the women's assistant (Stevens and NYU to name a couple, there are others). My argument is that a full-time coach is better than a part-time coach. Better for the school, better for the growth of the sport, and better for our student-athletes. Overall yes, you see more success when there's a single coach for the sport. MIT and Naz are anomalies, and also put Rivier in that mix too. Craig has done a great job there (also helps that he's Associate AD, I imagine he's making a few more bucks relative to other men's coaches). This thread is getting a little intense with the Coaching discussion. Ideally every school hires a FT Head for Women, then another FT Head for the men. In fact, it'd be best if each team had 3 full-time coaches. Realistically though, schools see the 15 kids per roster, and no real reason to do that right away. For the PT coaches out there who really want to make this a career, of course they would take FT duties and would want to add the additional team to their plate. It is doable, but not easy. That's why you see the Conference Carolina's with so much coaching turnover in my opinion (although without researching, even they have split more than when they started however many years ago). With excellent Assistant Coaches, who can help to run out of season activities and recruit, that also helps to make the duel-role do-able. I agree with Don above, the work has to get put in for it to happen and that duel-role is a way for an ambitious coach to make a name for themselves at the college level with simple hard work.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 15:47:44 GMT -5
Any news on who will be replacing Hollenbeck in Santa Cruz?
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Post by turosan on Oct 1, 2015 15:58:46 GMT -5
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Post by TheReignman on Oct 1, 2015 23:10:08 GMT -5
Any news on who will be replacing Hollenbeck in Santa Cruz? Paul Leon, former UCSC All American setter, is new head coach
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