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Post by tinman2 on Oct 5, 2015 16:46:26 GMT -5
You're apparently confusing my praise for other coaches as criticism of Baxter. I was impressed with the amount of information they gathered and the technology they used to collect it. I remember watching Dodd do it a few years back with pencil and paper. It is very helpful to know if you need to serve a player short, deep, left, or right. Having data to support or contradict what you think witnessed can be invaluable.
My only comment on Baxter was that when interviewed on TV he didn't have detailed strategic answers. He did mention serving tougher and said something about being patient and working hard or working together. He was probably as confused as Nick and Phil were at that point in time, though, since they had just lost 21-13.
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Post by fingrbustr on Oct 5, 2015 17:48:36 GMT -5
How about maybe Alison/Bruno at their best/max utility is simply better than Phil/Nick's best at this juncture? Phil/Nick took them out in pool play, but the stakes weren't as high and you are talking about getting by a team earlier in a tourney vs. getting essentially doubled up for an entire match in the final (we score one, you score two, etc).
A lot of good conjecture here to try and explain in hindsight. The call out on Bruno attacking off the net/more angles that affords was great. Phil and Nick have time to analyze and improve before Rio. If it isn't these two teams battling for Gold I think it will be a disappointment.
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Post by guest2 on Oct 5, 2015 19:08:20 GMT -5
Bruno/Allison are clearly better than Nick/Phil right now and no result was going to change that in this event. Id say the odds on favorites for the gold medal match is Bruno/Allison versus either Latvia, Evandro, or Nick/Phil (with the other two teams slightly ahead right now and maybe 4-5 other teams with a decent shot)
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Post by tinman2 on Oct 5, 2015 20:24:51 GMT -5
Bruno/Allison are clearly better than Nick/Phil right now and no result was going to change that in this event. Id say the odds on favorites for the gold medal match is Bruno/Allison versus either Latvia, Evandro, or Nick/Phil (with the other two teams slightly ahead right now and maybe 4-5 other teams with a decent shot) "...and no result was going to change that.." Not even if Nick and Phil had remained undefeated in this tournament? After this tournament, Bruno/Allison are clearly the favorites, but if they had lost twice to the same team, the conversation would be very different.
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Post by guest2 on Oct 5, 2015 20:32:22 GMT -5
I think Bruno and Allison are one of those teams that hadnt played in a while, but even so one loss (and one win for Nick/Phil) wouldnt have outweighed 5 straight
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Post by tinman2 on Oct 5, 2015 21:30:10 GMT -5
They were off for 3 whole weeks. No big deal considering there are dozens of quality players they play against regularly in Brazil. They were probably off that long before they won Long Beach, also.
I thought you had an earlier post about how much confidence Nick/Phil would have from winning their pool...now that means nothing? whatever
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Post by haze on Oct 5, 2015 23:54:59 GMT -5
If mental fatigue and being tired was an issue for Phil and nick this year, they aren't going to like their schedule next year at all.
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Post by guest2 on Oct 6, 2015 0:56:45 GMT -5
They were off for 3 whole weeks. No big deal considering there are dozens of quality players they play against regularly in Brazil. They were probably off that long before they won Long Beach, also. I thought you had an earlier post about how much confidence Nick/Phil would have from winning their pool...now that means nothing? whatever How did you extrapolate from me saying that Nick/Phil winning one tournament wouldnt have made them the best in the world to "winning their pool now means nothing." Nick/Phil should have a lot of confidence since prior to this tournament their record against top teams was 2-4. In this event alone they beat more elite teams than their other four events combined. They also put two medium good teams to the sword as opposed to letting matches go to 3. All of that should give Nick/Phil confidence, but that beating they took from Allison and Bruno should diminish that confidence somewhat. It doesnt take away everything they accomplished, but it takes away some. Its been more than a year since Phil took a loss that bad.
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Post by ciscokeed on Oct 6, 2015 9:52:59 GMT -5
Damn that Bruno. He has such a knack for making plays-and his hitting range is ridiculous for his size...add his incredible mental toughness and he's the hardest guy to beat out there right now
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Post by digdugg on Oct 6, 2015 10:03:59 GMT -5
When they interviewed Baxter Sunday, he didn't have anything strategic to say. Watched a lot of international coaches in Lauderdale that were taking video and tracking stats on laptops. All the while Mike Dodd was just chilling and talking with current and ex players. MD is coaching Italy, but scouting other teams didn't seem to be a priority. Talked with coaches from the Netherlands and Austria and they put a lot of effort into tracking tendencies of their team and others. So does Brazil. I agree that Nick/Phil would benefit from an experienced coach that knows what he's doing. I dont understand why any coach would give away strategy in an interview and a 13-15 loss isnt bad strategy its bad execution. Phil/Nick seem to have improved since they got together and their strategy now is better than it was then. (Phil on two more often, Nick's shot to swing ratio, higher setting for Nick) Is that down to Baxter? Maybe and maybe not. With regards to Dodd, he took on an Italian team that was nothing and helped them become very, very good. (Lupo and Nicolai) Dodd wasnt their coach this year, except for the WTFinals. Apparently one of them had cancer so their lousy season may be because of that. MD has coached some very successful teams over the years. I believe he was Phil and Sean's coach when they were atop the FIVB and i think Jake and Sean when they were world champs. Plus Lupo and Nicolai and others. Keeping stats is important no doubt, but in a sport like beach volleyball stats are often going to be deceptive absent a ton of context. The overhwelming majority of FIVB matches teams play are against teams of no consequence. Phil/Sean were best in the world last year. Nicolai/Lupo and Allison/Bruno were the next two teams. Phil/Sean played each of them twice. Are Nick's stats against Latvia of value in analyzing how he will play against Christian and Reindeer? Are Nick's stats in pool play against Vanatu of any value at all? Also coaches taking video? Stats? That stuff has long term benefit but in the context of one tournament why not just set up a camera and then watch the match. You can take the stats etc. later and instead try to get a feel for what people are doing. My only point on the coaching and strategy etc. is that I wonder how much of that are Phil/Nick are doing. Does anyone know? And not just re-watching the match but really breaking down film like they do in the NFL to understand tendencies of each player and team. That stuff really matters in other major sports - maybe Baxter is a film room junkie but he does not come across as one in TV interviews is what I was saying. Finally, Guest2 - just because you think something is "preposterous", doesn't mean it is...I was at the tournament and Phil looked gassed on Thursday (even when he was at the pool with his kids) and towards the end of the tourney as well. 36 hour trip from China prob did not help...was just an observation...
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Post by guest2 on Oct 7, 2015 4:21:10 GMT -5
I wasn't saying it was preposterous to suggest Phil was tired, only that if he was it was anything but his own fault
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