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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2016 14:57:49 GMT -5
I'm curious to hear a response to this... his last alleged "attack" or whatever is 30 years ago, right? So who would be protected, were he to be banned now? We talk about colleges who break rules for 20 years and then the current players have to serve a postseason ban because athletes received illegal benefits in 1993. Consensus is that is pointless so why the desire among so many people to see him banned now, at the twilight of his career? Colleges don't break rules, people break rules. I would have no problem with penalties being applied to coaches, ADs and college presidents, rather than just institutions. Why talk of seeing him banned now? That is a strange question since he already IS banned now by the governing body of his sport. The real question is why does the AAU balk at enforcing the ban within their organization when their rules say they should? Why does it still matter? Because he dodged prosecution due to the statute of limitations running out before any of the girls could get over the embarrassment and shame to come forward, so he never faced any legal penalty, and none of the girls (now women) got any closure. Did you read the article? "she still carries deep scars from the sexual, physical and emotional abuse Butler inflicted on her". The DA said after the fact that under laws in effect at the time that they most likely would have brought him up on the charges. Whether he would have been convicted is speculation. According to the women involved and according to the findings of the USAV ethics panel, he was a serial rapist. That is not a small matter in general, even without considering his influential role first in training girls and second training young coaches. If someone with his background comes across a similar situation with one of his top young coaches, what would he say? Who would he protect? Edited to add: BTW, the article states the age of consent in Illinois is 17. That is true in general, but the law is much stricter, the age older and the penalties harsher when it is a person in a position of power like a teacher or a coach. That the JVA and AAU have done nothing is an embarrassment for those organizations.
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Post by Northern lights on Jul 17, 2016 16:00:04 GMT -5
"USA Volleyball issued Butler a lifetime ban in 1995 after Tuzi, Powers-Barnhard and another former Sports Performance player, Julie Romias (then Julie Bremner), testified against him. The sport’s governing body in the United States reinstated Butler as an administrator just five years later, in 2000, a decision Lori Okimura, the chairwoman of USA Volleyball’s board of directors, called a “mistake” earlier this month."
Wow!! How many times does this piece of s--t get to continually victimize these girls.
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Post by vbnerd on Jul 17, 2016 16:03:39 GMT -5
I'm curious to hear a response to this... his last alleged "attack" or whatever is 30 years ago, right? So who would be protected, were he to be banned now? We talk about colleges who break rules for 20 years and then the current players have to serve a postseason ban because athletes received illegal benefits in 1993. Consensus is that is pointless so why the desire among so many people to see him banned now, at the twilight of his career? Colleges don't break rules, people break rules. I would have no problem with penalties being applied to coaches, ADs and college presidents, rather than just institutions. Why talk of seeing him banned now? That is a strange question since he already IS banned now by the governing body of his sport. The real question is why does the AAU balk at enforcing the ban within their organization when their rules say they should? Why does it still matter? Because he dodged prosecution due to the statute of limitations running out before any of the girls could get over the embarrassment and shame to come forward, so he never faced any legal penalty, and none of the girls (now women) got any closure. Did you read the article? "she still carries deep scars from the sexual, physical and emotional abuse Butler inflicted on her". The DA said after the fact that under laws in effect at the time that they most likely would have brought him up on the charges. Whether he would have been convicted is speculation. According to the women involved and according to the findings of the USAV ethics panel, he was a serial rapist. That is not a small matter in general, even without considering his influential role first in training girls and second training young coaches. If someone with his background comes across a similar situation with one of his top young coaches, what would he say? Who would he protect? Edited to add: BTW, the article states the age of consent in Illinois is 17. That is true in general, but the law is much stricter, the age older and the penalties harsher when it is a person in a position of power like a teacher or a coach. That the JVA and AAU have done nothing is an embarrassment for those organizations. I concede that he got off too easy. And I completely see the logic in the alleged victims getting a restraining order so if they are at a tournament, he can't be there, even if it is in his own facility. That makes perfect sense to me. And if his crime is inflicting lasting "deep scars" on a group of young women, and his work now is enabling young women to thrive in pursuit of their dreams (two members of the Rio Olympic team) isn't the work he's doing penance on some level? I mean he's profiting from it so it's more complicated than that but if someone is rehabilitated (as evidenced by 30 years) and those now at risk know of the danger and choose to seek his training anyway, I'm not sure I see how the greater good is served by him being banned now, though I'm certainly interested in hearing the arguments.
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Post by Northern lights on Jul 17, 2016 16:11:34 GMT -5
Colleges don't break rules, people break rules. I would have no problem with penalties being applied to coaches, ADs and college presidents, rather than just institutions. Why talk of seeing him banned now? That is a strange question since he already IS banned now by the governing body of his sport. The real question is why does the AAU balk at enforcing the ban within their organization when their rules say they should? Why does it still matter? Because he dodged prosecution due to the statute of limitations running out before any of the girls could get over the embarrassment and shame to come forward, so he never faced any legal penalty, and none of the girls (now women) got any closure. Did you read the article? "she still carries deep scars from the sexual, physical and emotional abuse Butler inflicted on her". The DA said after the fact that under laws in effect at the time that they most likely would have brought him up on the charges. Whether he would have been convicted is speculation. According to the women involved and according to the findings of the USAV ethics panel, he was a serial rapist. That is not a small matter in general, even without considering his influential role first in training girls and second training young coaches. If someone with his background comes across a similar situation with one of his top young coaches, what would he say? Who would he protect? Edited to add: BTW, the article states the age of consent in Illinois is 17. That is true in general, but the law is much stricter, the age older and the penalties harsher when it is a person in a position of power like a teacher or a coach. That the JVA and AAU have done nothing is an embarrassment for those organizations. I concede that he got off too easy. And I completely see the logic in the alleged victims getting a restraining order so if they are at a tournament, he can't be there, even if it is in his own facility. That makes perfect sense to me. And if his crime is inflicting lasting "deep scars" on a group of young women, and his work now is enabling young women to thrive in pursuit of their dreams (two members of the Rio Olympic team) isn't the work he's doing penance on some level? I mean he's profiting from it so it's more complicated than that but if someone is rehabilitated (as evidenced by 30 years) and those now at risk know of the danger and choose to seek his training anyway, I'm not sure I see how the greater good is served by him being banned now, though I'm certainly interested in hearing the arguments. Argument number 1- sexual orientation is not chosen. This dude by orientation likes young girls. Not only does he like young girls, but he likes to have them in position of subordination and reliance, so that he can prey on them. Then he goes about systematically doing that. So no he does not deserve a pass. He deserves a jail term. Getting away with it for a very long time, is not a defence. Put your 17 year old daughter in this position, then re-post.
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Post by Phaedrus on Jul 17, 2016 17:11:38 GMT -5
Colleges don't break rules, people break rules. I would have no problem with penalties being applied to coaches, ADs and college presidents, rather than just institutions. Why talk of seeing him banned now? That is a strange question since he already IS banned now by the governing body of his sport. The real question is why does the AAU balk at enforcing the ban within their organization when their rules say they should? Why does it still matter? Because he dodged prosecution due to the statute of limitations running out before any of the girls could get over the embarrassment and shame to come forward, so he never faced any legal penalty, and none of the girls (now women) got any closure. Did you read the article? "she still carries deep scars from the sexual, physical and emotional abuse Butler inflicted on her". The DA said after the fact that under laws in effect at the time that they most likely would have brought him up on the charges. Whether he would have been convicted is speculation. According to the women involved and according to the findings of the USAV ethics panel, he was a serial rapist. That is not a small matter in general, even without considering his influential role first in training girls and second training young coaches. If someone with his background comes across a similar situation with one of his top young coaches, what would he say? Who would he protect? Edited to add: BTW, the article states the age of consent in Illinois is 17. That is true in general, but the law is much stricter, the age older and the penalties harsher when it is a person in a position of power like a teacher or a coach. That the JVA and AAU have done nothing is an embarrassment for those organizations. I concede that he got off too easy. And I completely see the logic in the alleged victims getting a restraining order so if they are at a tournament, he can't be there, even if it is in his own facility. That makes perfect sense to me. And if his crime is inflicting lasting "deep scars" on a group of young women, and his work now is enabling young women to thrive in pursuit of their dreams (two members of the Rio Olympic team) isn't the work he's doing penance on some level? I mean he's profiting from it so it's more complicated than that but if someone is rehabilitated (as evidenced by 30 years) and those now at risk know of the danger and choose to seek his training anyway, I'm not sure I see how the greater good is served by him being banned now, though I'm certainly interested in hearing the arguments. Penance, very Catholic of you. It is very simple. He gets peace of mind when those he raped gets peace of mind.
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Post by ProfessorPlum on Jul 17, 2016 18:23:39 GMT -5
Colleges don't break rules, people break rules. I would have no problem with penalties being applied to coaches, ADs and college presidents, rather than just institutions. Why talk of seeing him banned now? That is a strange question since he already IS banned now by the governing body of his sport. The real question is why does the AAU balk at enforcing the ban within their organization when their rules say they should? Why does it still matter? Because he dodged prosecution due to the statute of limitations running out before any of the girls could get over the embarrassment and shame to come forward, so he never faced any legal penalty, and none of the girls (now women) got any closure. Did you read the article? "she still carries deep scars from the sexual, physical and emotional abuse Butler inflicted on her". The DA said after the fact that under laws in effect at the time that they most likely would have brought him up on the charges. Whether he would have been convicted is speculation. According to the women involved and according to the findings of the USAV ethics panel, he was a serial rapist. That is not a small matter in general, even without considering his influential role first in training girls and second training young coaches. If someone with his background comes across a similar situation with one of his top young coaches, what would he say? Who would he protect? Edited to add: BTW, the article states the age of consent in Illinois is 17. That is true in general, but the law is much stricter, the age older and the penalties harsher when it is a person in a position of power like a teacher or a coach. That the JVA and AAU have done nothing is an embarrassment for those organizations. I concede that he got off too easy. And I completely see the logic in the alleged victims getting a restraining order so if they are at a tournament, he can't be there, even if it is in his own facility. That makes perfect sense to me. And if his crime is inflicting lasting "deep scars" on a group of young women, and his work now is enabling young women to thrive in pursuit of their dreams (two members of the Rio Olympic team) isn't the work he's doing penance on some level? I mean he's profiting from it so it's more complicated than that but if someone is rehabilitated (as evidenced by 30 years) and those now at risk know of the danger and choose to seek his training anyway, I'm not sure I see how the greater good is served by him being banned now, though I'm certainly interested in hearing the arguments. You can't be rehabilitated if you have never admitted what you did is wrong. In his mind, "what am I rehabilitating"! As far as everything I have read and from first hand accounts and from investigations...he has admitted to having sexual relationships with two of the victims but only after they were over 18. His sole defense in his lawsuit against USAV which butler was seeking to reverse his original suspension...sole defense...was that what he did was not only not illegal but it WAS NOT WRONG! And USAV should not be worrying about his action because it did not violate their code of conduct. To be rehabilitated you have to admit you have a problem. He has never, ever done that and he and his zombie nation continue to try and make the victims the bad people! These facts are almost as disgusting as his original serial rape campaign!
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Post by mervynpumpkinhead on Jul 17, 2016 19:13:26 GMT -5
I think Powers and Brigman would disagree about,your notion of penance.
I'm shocked the AAU and JVA continue to be associated with him.
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Post by OJdidit on Jul 17, 2016 20:23:56 GMT -5
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Post by azvb on Jul 17, 2016 21:04:23 GMT -5
The explanations of why he got off remind me of the excuses the FBI Director gave for not prosecuting Hillary.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2016 21:15:16 GMT -5
You can have them walk a hamster wheel to provide their own electricity to the prison. No walkie, no lights. I should hire you to design it. I'm there. Cold water for showers only, canvas hammocks, a skylight hah, the prison would be located where the sun hardly ever shines.
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Post by Wolfgang on Jul 17, 2016 21:23:27 GMT -5
I should hire you to design it. I'm there. Cold water for showers only, canvas hammocks, a skylight hah, the prison would be located where the sun hardly ever shines. You solved the electricity problem. But you still have major problems with sewage and water. I don't know how I'll be able to run this without the city or county knowing about it.
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Post by VBCOACH on Jul 17, 2016 23:06:13 GMT -5
if someone is rehabilitated (as evidenced by 30 years) and those now at risk know of the danger and choose to seek his training anyway, I'm not sure I see how the greater good is served by him being banned now, though I'm certainly interested in hearing the arguments. A con man who owns an investment firm steals your (and several other people's) retirement money. You now have to spend the rest of your life in poverty. The con man is legit now, not having swindled anyone for 30 years. He's still running his investment firm and is extremely wealthy. You now have a chance to expose him. What do you do?
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Post by Hawk Attack on Jul 17, 2016 23:59:35 GMT -5
A con man who owns an investment firm steals your (and several other people's) retirement money. You now have to spend the rest of your life in poverty. The con man is legit now, not having swindled anyone for 30 years. He's still running his investment firm and is extremely wealthy. You now have a chance to expose him. What do you do? Blackmail
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 0:27:12 GMT -5
I'm there. Cold water for showers only, canvas hammocks, a skylight hah, the prison would be located where the sun hardly ever shines. You solved the electricity problem. But you still have major problems with sewage and water. I don't know how I'll be able to run this without the city or county knowing about it. Water, grey water collection from the rain for bathing/toilets. Drinking water from snow melt/mountain streams. Sewage treatment paid for by money saved on electricity. Did I mention walls of air? Sorry been reading some strange books. Choice between a slow death with a pit of sharp objects and venomous creatures or in your cell.
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Post by vbnerd on Jul 18, 2016 1:36:44 GMT -5
To be rehabilitated you have to admit you have a problem. He has never, ever done that and he and his zombie nation continue to try and make the victims the bad people! These facts are almost as disgusting as his original serial rape campaign! You are talking about his public position. That doesn't mean he hasn't found some personal growth along the way and just forgot to send you the diary pages or therapy notes. Maybe it was in therapy or with family, no? I don't know what changed but this was several players in a relatively short period of time, and then none for 30ish years. I say rehabilitated, you can call it what you want, but its pretty obvious that something changed.
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