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Post by vbnerd on Jul 18, 2016 1:43:24 GMT -5
Another question for this topic.
There are two competing facts here. Rick Butler's image is tarnished. Rick Butler is a fantastic coach and volleyball businessman.
If he were to retire, and sell Sports Performance and all of it's properties (the great lakes center, the volleyshop, the club, the camps, the educational products, the tournaments, etc) would the empire be worth more with the Butlers and their talents on staff for a period of time, or without the Butler's and the baggage that comes with the name?
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Post by VBCOACH on Jul 18, 2016 6:37:23 GMT -5
To be rehabilitated you have to admit you have a problem. He has never, ever done that and he and his zombie nation continue to try and make the victims the bad people! These facts are almost as disgusting as his original serial rape campaign! You are talking about his public position. That doesn't mean he hasn't found some personal growth along the way and just forgot to send you the diary pages or therapy notes. Maybe it was in therapy or with family, no? I don't know what changed but this was several players in a relatively short period of time, and then none for 30ish years. I say rehabilitated, you can call it what you want, but its pretty obvious that something changed. What changed is that a parent told him that if he abused any more girls that he would hire a hit man to kill him. This is true.
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Post by Phaedrus on Jul 18, 2016 7:46:18 GMT -5
To be rehabilitated you have to admit you have a problem. He has never, ever done that and he and his zombie nation continue to try and make the victims the bad people! These facts are almost as disgusting as his original serial rape campaign! You are talking about his public position. That doesn't mean he hasn't found some personal growth along the way and just forgot to send you the diary pages or therapy notes. Maybe it was in therapy or with family, no? I don't know what changed but this was several players in a relatively short period of time, and then none for 30ish years. I say rehabilitated, you can call it what you want, but its pretty obvious that something changed. In this case, the public position should be the private position if he has truly been rehabilitated. An apology is the least that he can do if he is at all interested in showing any remorse.
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Post by Phaedrus on Jul 18, 2016 7:48:00 GMT -5
Another question for this topic. There are two competing facts here. Rick Butler's image is tarnished. Rick Butler is a fantastic coach and volleyball businessman. Thats what they said about Mussolini. Sure he is a blood thirsty dictator but he made the trains run on time.
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Post by tomclen on Jul 18, 2016 7:59:40 GMT -5
Charles Manson hasn't killed anybody in a long time. Maybe he could do a little volleyball coaching.
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Post by moderndaycoach on Jul 18, 2016 8:14:43 GMT -5
Another question for this topic. There are two competing facts here. Rick Butler's image is tarnished. Rick Butler is a fantastic coach and volleyball businessman. If he were to retire, and sell Sports Performance and all of it's properties (the great lakes center, the volleyshop, the club, the camps, the educational products, the tournaments, etc) would the empire be worth more with the Butlers and their talents on staff for a period of time, or without the Butler's and the baggage that comes with the name? His image has been tarnished for some time now, and that is why it is so confusing that all his supporters defend him like their lives depend on it. What makes it more disgusting is that some truly believe that he did no wrong and when he is brought up in conversation they get offended and tell you not to speak about him like that. He will never, ever, apologize- the man thinks he did no wrong. It would be a total admission of guilt and contradict the 30+ years of denial him and Cheryl have done, not to mention the public humiliation they have put the victims through and anyone with a strong enough voice who spoke up and garnered attention from the public. (Google the Kay Rogness/Cheryl Butler message board spat that is online somewhere) From my understanding the club as en entity (club/facility/volleyshop/power league/etc.) has a price tag over $10,000,000.00. While the Sports Performance name may still attract the top talent if ever sold, without Rick being the supreme ruler can the staff that is leftover from an eventual departure hold the brand and its standard? While I am sure they are confident they can do so, none of them are the ones that built the empire.....they just happened to pass through it as a player, coach, or both. This will never go away, he broke that trust that is so important between players and coaches, and instilled that fear all parents worry about when your child sometimes spends more time with the coach during season than they do with their families. It will be very interesting what AAU does moving forward as Jenny has already publicly spoken on the matter that JVA stands behind him. If anyone from AAU does read this thread I hope that someone is in the ears of the board reminding them in this situation Too Little is never Too Late. Crazy to think where the club or Rick would be today if Twitter alone, not to mention the depths these sports bloggers and investigative journalists go to these days were around.
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Post by ProfessorPlum on Jul 18, 2016 9:15:11 GMT -5
Another question for this topic. There are two competing facts here. Rick Butler's image is tarnished. Rick Butler is a fantastic coach and volleyball businessman. If he were to retire, and sell Sports Performance and all of it's properties (the great lakes center, the volleyshop, the club, the camps, the educational products, the tournaments, etc) would the empire be worth more with the Butlers and their talents on staff for a period of time, or without the Butler's and the baggage that comes with the name? Machievalli, is that you? Who gives a crap if his business and coaching record is great? He is a creepy, serial rapists that would have certainly been in jail if this happened 10 years later. He has never apologized or admitted any wrong doing and therefore is not even close to being rehabilitated. Has he had treatment or therapy to control his problem? Or was it just the threat of having a bullet in his head? Perhaps one or both of these has happened. But the fact remains that USAV has banned him (this was not done very efficently), AAU has started to distance themselves but has a lot more to do, and JVA is a disgrace that they have done everything to support him and hold him up as some kind of hero with awards, leadership, etc. It is a continued stain on a great organization!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 10:36:38 GMT -5
Machievalli, is that you? ... AAU has started to distance themselves but has a lot more to do ... I think the AAU has done as little as possible in order to protect a huge cash cow. They gave Rick Butler their highest award, the AAU Emil Breitkreutz Leadership Award. A year ago when called out by advocates and a series of ESPN OTL stories that they were ignoring their own rules, the AAU announced Rick Butler would "step aside from his volunteer administrative activities at AAU." to allow for "an independent review of our practices and procedures throughout the organization, especially those that relate to our youth." In the last year what have we heard about this "review"? Nothing. What has happened to Rick Butler? Nothing. He was just on the sideline coaching his team to a national championship. What has been the AAU response when asked about the review, when requested to enforce their own rules and ban Butler and when sued to force them to enforce their rules? Complete silence.
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Post by guest2 on Jul 18, 2016 10:41:25 GMT -5
Colleges don't break rules, people break rules. I would have no problem with penalties being applied to coaches, ADs and college presidents, rather than just institutions. Why talk of seeing him banned now? That is a strange question since he already IS banned now by the governing body of his sport. The real question is why does the AAU balk at enforcing the ban within their organization when their rules say they should? Why does it still matter? Because he dodged prosecution due to the statute of limitations running out before any of the girls could get over the embarrassment and shame to come forward, so he never faced any legal penalty, and none of the girls (now women) got any closure. Did you read the article? "she still carries deep scars from the sexual, physical and emotional abuse Butler inflicted on her". The DA said after the fact that under laws in effect at the time that they most likely would have brought him up on the charges. Whether he would have been convicted is speculation. According to the women involved and according to the findings of the USAV ethics panel, he was a serial rapist. That is not a small matter in general, even without considering his influential role first in training girls and second training young coaches. If someone with his background comes across a similar situation with one of his top young coaches, what would he say? Who would he protect? Edited to add: BTW, the article states the age of consent in Illinois is 17. That is true in general, but the law is much stricter, the age older and the penalties harsher when it is a person in a position of power like a teacher or a coach. That the JVA and AAU have done nothing is an embarrassment for those organizations. I concede that he got off too easy. And I completely see the logic in the alleged victims getting a restraining order so if they are at a tournament, he can't be there, even if it is in his own facility. That makes perfect sense to me. And if his crime is inflicting lasting "deep scars" on a group of young women, and his work now is enabling young women to thrive in pursuit of their dreams (two members of the Rio Olympic team) isn't the work he's doing penance on some level? I mean he's profiting from it so it's more complicated than that but if someone is rehabilitated (as evidenced by 30 years) and those now at risk know of the danger and choose to seek his training anyway, I'm not sure I see how the greater good is served by him being banned now, though I'm certainly interested in hearing the arguments. Certainly getting paid to coach volleyball is penance for serially raping women. Its just a shame there arent more programs for younger players so some other pedophiles can also atone. Also unfair that there is no path to contrition for those not good at coaching sports.
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Post by moderndaycoach on Jul 18, 2016 10:57:50 GMT -5
And just in case someone wants a reminder of what went down, here is a side of vomit to go with your lunch. I wonder where this situation would stand today if Cheryl did not go to the lengths she did to cover this up over the years, would we still have the same outcome? Another question could stand at what they are better at.....developing and training young athletes or deception/manipulation of the public. weilquaranta.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Powers-Demand-Letter-FINAL-June-23-2016.pdf
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Post by Phaedrus on Jul 18, 2016 12:39:16 GMT -5
From the link provided by moderndaycoach. Appendix A. Page 92 of 242 pages. I'd load it if I could, but it is a PDF.
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Post by vbnerd on Jul 18, 2016 12:54:53 GMT -5
Another question for this topic. There are two competing facts here. Rick Butler's image is tarnished. Rick Butler is a fantastic coach and volleyball businessman. If he were to retire, and sell Sports Performance and all of it's properties (the great lakes center, the volleyshop, the club, the camps, the educational products, the tournaments, etc) would the empire be worth more with the Butlers and their talents on staff for a period of time, or without the Butler's and the baggage that comes with the name? Machievalli, is that you? Who gives a crap if his business and coaching record is great? He is a creepy, serial rapists that would have certainly been in jail if this happened 10 years later. He has never apologized or admitted any wrong doing and therefore is not even close to being rehabilitated. Has he had treatment or therapy to control his problem? Or was it just the threat of having a bullet in his head? Perhaps one or both of these has happened. But the fact remains that USAV has banned him (this was not done very efficently), AAU has started to distance themselves but has a lot more to do, and JVA is a disgrace that they have done everything to support him and hold him up as some kind of hero with awards, leadership, etc. It is a continued stain on a great organization! Seeing as how this is a volleyball board and not a rape board, I thought it was a fair question that might bring this thread back to volleyball. You seem determined to have this thread moved "off the Net" where threads go to die.
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Post by moderndaycoach on Jul 18, 2016 13:19:49 GMT -5
Machievalli, is that you? Who gives a crap if his business and coaching record is great? He is a creepy, serial rapists that would have certainly been in jail if this happened 10 years later. He has never apologized or admitted any wrong doing and therefore is not even close to being rehabilitated. Has he had treatment or therapy to control his problem? Or was it just the threat of having a bullet in his head? Perhaps one or both of these has happened. But the fact remains that USAV has banned him (this was not done very efficently), AAU has started to distance themselves but has a lot more to do, and JVA is a disgrace that they have done everything to support him and hold him up as some kind of hero with awards, leadership, etc. It is a continued stain on a great organization! Seeing as how this is a volleyball board and not a rape board, I thought it was a fair question that might bring this thread back to volleyball. You seem determined to have this thread moved "off the Net" where threads go to die. I would hope this thread doesn't move to off the net, we have to post this every single time it comes back up......and I would be shocked if this goes away anytime soon without AAU and JVA making a statement. (Even though Jenny has sort of done that) What is important here is the fact one of the anonymous figures finally came out and told her story, I highly doubt Rick and/or SPRI as a brand will reply until completely ready, if even at all. They survived the statute of limitations and it's simply a monetary, moral/ethics, character situation at this stage. As someone pointed out earlier the focus of continuing this is to gain closer for the victims and to make sure an example and standard is set so things like this do not ever happen again, and unfortunately when they do there are extremely severe punishments. The deed is done, the empire has succeeded....Now if only he would apologize (which I would assume will NEVER happen) or just go away and rot somewhere in the mountains of Oregon with his dirty profits.
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Post by Wolfgang on Jul 18, 2016 13:35:11 GMT -5
Machievalli, is that you? Who gives a crap if his business and coaching record is great? He is a creepy, serial rapists that would have certainly been in jail if this happened 10 years later. He has never apologized or admitted any wrong doing and therefore is not even close to being rehabilitated. Has he had treatment or therapy to control his problem? Or was it just the threat of having a bullet in his head? Perhaps one or both of these has happened. But the fact remains that USAV has banned him (this was not done very efficently), AAU has started to distance themselves but has a lot more to do, and JVA is a disgrace that they have done everything to support him and hold him up as some kind of hero with awards, leadership, etc. It is a continued stain on a great organization! Seeing as how this is a volleyball board and not a rape board, I thought it was a fair question that might bring this thread back to volleyball. You seem determined to have this thread moved "off the Net" where threads go to die. So that's what's happening to my threads. F**k!
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Post by longtimereader on Jul 18, 2016 14:03:18 GMT -5
I'm curious to hear a response to this... his last alleged "attack" or whatever is 30 years ago, right? So who would be protected, were he to be banned now? We talk about colleges who break rules for 20 years and then the current players have to serve a postseason ban because athletes received illegal benefits in 1993. Consensus is that is pointless so why the desire among so many people to see him banned now, at the twilight of his career? Colleges don't break rules, people break rules. I would have no problem with penalties being applied to coaches, ADs and college presidents, rather than just institutions. Why talk of seeing him banned now? That is a strange question since he already IS banned now by the governing body of his sport. The real question is why does the AAU balk at enforcing the ban within their organization when their rules say they should? Why does it still matter? Because he dodged prosecution due to the statute of limitations running out before any of the girls could get over the embarrassment and shame to come forward, so he never faced any legal penalty, and none of the girls (now women) got any closure. Did you read the article? "she still carries deep scars from the sexual, physical and emotional abuse Butler inflicted on her". The DA said after the fact that under laws in effect at the time that they most likely would have brought him up on the charges. Whether he would have been convicted is speculation. According to the women involved and according to the findings of the USAV ethics panel, he was a serial rapist. That is not a small matter in general, even without considering his influential role first in training girls and second training young coaches. If someone with his background comes across a similar situation with one of his top young coaches, what would he say? Who would he protect? Edited to add: BTW, the article states the age of consent in Illinois is 17. That is true in general, but the law is much stricter, the age older and the penalties harsher when it is a person in a position of power like a teacher or a coach. That the JVA and AAU have done nothing is an embarrassment for those organizations. To go along with this and "why punish now" potential lines. Think about some of these Nazi war criminals that have avoided capture and prosecution for decades and finally get caught. What they did was wrong- and this is damn close to murder for me- and that just doesn't go away because they haven't murdered since their atrocities.
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