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Post by vbgirls2 on Jul 18, 2016 20:55:18 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I don't believe for a minute that this stuff only happened 30 plus years ago, and he is reformed and this hasn't happened since! Absolutely not possible. Ask anyone that works with these type of abusers/pedophiles, there are many many more that have not had the courage to come forward. Did you forget Jerry Sandusky? It makes no difference what gender the abuser or the children abused, and yes 15 yr olds are children in the eyes of the law. I am absolutely sickened by him, and by those that have let him get away with this for so many years.
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Post by Phaedrus on Jul 18, 2016 21:06:34 GMT -5
To go along with this and "why punish now" potential lines. Think about some of these Nazi war criminals that have avoided capture and prosecution for decades and finally get caught. What they did was wrong- and this is damn close to murder for me- and that just doesn't go away because they haven't murdered since their atrocities. For "why punish now" a coworker had the best answer I've heard so far, and it kinda dovetails with 642fiddi's call to action. Just because the government has a statute of limitations doesn't mean that we have to. We need to marginalize "these people" to the degree that for anyone else the thought of doing this is immediately followed by dread of the ramifications. I'm pretty sure the science on punishments isn't as clear as that link would suggest but that doesn't mean you stop trying. Why the change of tune now? You had been saying that the statutes of limitation is over so why punish now. If the mental terror for the victims didn't change your mind, why does a legalistic turn of logic change your mind?
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Post by austintatious on Jul 18, 2016 21:18:47 GMT -5
I also don't think no reporting in over 30 years means he is reformed. There had to be others but as he aged I am sure he became less attractive to 15 year Olds and couldn't sell it.
Despicable human.
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Post by greenpier on Jul 18, 2016 21:19:13 GMT -5
Any chance Mr Butler could sue volleytalk for libel, defamation of character?
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Post by truthandjustice on Jul 18, 2016 21:24:12 GMT -5
That would require him taking someone to court. Never happen as the truth is usually told there. On top of that, he doesn't want anybody new to come out of the woodwork. That's why he has left this alone for years.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Jul 18, 2016 21:30:55 GMT -5
Any chance Mr Butler could sue volleytalk for libel, defamation of character? He should fire any lawyer that tells him filing that suit is a good idea.
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Post by vbgirls2 on Jul 18, 2016 23:04:23 GMT -5
Austin, I know you were being sarcastic about Rick no longer being attractive to 15 year olds. Make no mistake they groom these children, it's power they crave. Those parents that support Butler and say they never saw this inappropriate behavior, they only show it to those that are vulnerable and those they think they can manipulate and control. Just because it didn't happen to anyone you know or your child doesn't mean it didn't happen.
As for the coaches that still work with him, invite him to their camps and recruit his athletes- they don't want to believe any of this happened because all they care about is recruiting SPRI athletes.
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Post by Wolfgang on Jul 18, 2016 23:26:38 GMT -5
It's not physical attraction. The attraction is power and authority and the craving by some girls to be noticed by those in power.
When I was a grad student, I had the privilege (or burden) of teaching classes to young college students, most of them freshmen and sophomores. Before embarking on this endeavor, the school provided us with some training and orientation. One of the things that the trainers stressed was that a lot of college students are impressionable young adults who, just a few months ago, were in high school. They told us (both male and female grad students) to expect these young students to be attracted to us, not because we are physically attractive but because they want acceptance from people in power. They told us to think back to when we were in high school. They asked us: were we the kind of student who were the stud in high school or the beauty queen all the boys drooled over? Or were we the kind that struggled to find dates or were otherwise ordinary in high school? Chances are, if you were the latter, those college students who are now making passes at you are doing so not because we're so handsome or beautiful but because we hold positions of power and authority. They said to expect some of our students to be drawn to us, but under no condition are we to pursue it. There were strict ethical guidelines.
(The dynamic is different for female instructors. There will always be young boys who will be attracted to grad instructors. However, the bulk of the problem area is the desire of young boys to challenge the authority of the female instructor. For young girls toward male instructors, it's almost always sexual attraction due to power.)
Sure enough. During my grad school years, I had at least one female student make passes at me each semester. One girl even said, "I'll do anything."
You probably don't believe me. That's okay. I'm just telling you why some men want power -- when you have it, the whole world opens up with new opportunities.
I'm not suggesting girls were climbing all over RB and it was somehow their fault. No, I'm not saying that all. What I'm saying is that once you're in a position of power, you have certain responsibilities to discourage such behavior from them because it's going to happen. And certainly don't go looking for it because these girls are impressionable, naive, and, at times, just plain too eager to please.
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Post by vbnerd on Jul 19, 2016 1:52:04 GMT -5
For "why punish now" a coworker had the best answer I've heard so far, and it kinda dovetails with 642fiddi's call to action. Just because the government has a statute of limitations doesn't mean that we have to. We need to marginalize "these people" to the degree that for anyone else the thought of doing this is immediately followed by dread of the ramifications. I'm pretty sure the science on punishments isn't as clear as that link would suggest but that doesn't mean you stop trying. Why the change of tune now? You had been saying that the statutes of limitation is over so why punish now. If the mental terror for the victims didn't change your mind, why does a legalistic turn of logic change your mind? Well, you see, when I said "I am curious to hear a response to this" and posed a question, what I really meant was that I was curious to hear a response to that question. I know you can tell the difference between a supported statement and a line of questioning. In a conversation or a debate, you don't have to hold a position to represent that position. Often the best position to represent is the one where you learn the most.
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Post by ay2013 on Jul 19, 2016 2:25:41 GMT -5
This is all very disturbing.
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Post by tomclen on Jul 19, 2016 7:14:07 GMT -5
It's not physical attraction. The attraction is power and authority and the craving by some girls to be noticed by those in power. When I was a grad student, I had the privilege (or burden) of teaching classes to young college students, most of them freshmen and sophomores. Before embarking on this endeavor, the school provided us with some training and orientation. One of the things that the trainers stressed was that a lot of college students are impressionable young adults who, just a few months ago, were in high school. They told us (both male and female grad students) to expect these young students to be attracted to us, not because we are physically attractive but because they want acceptance from people in power. They told us to think back to when we were in high school. They asked us: were we the kind of student who were the stud in high school or the beauty queen all the boys drooled over? Or were we the kind that struggled to find dates or were otherwise ordinary in high school? Chances are, if you were the latter, those college students who are now making passes at you are doing so not because we're so handsome or beautiful but because we hold positions of power and authority. They said to expect some of our students to be drawn to us, but under no condition are we to pursue it. There were strict ethical guidelines. (The dynamic is different for female instructors. There will always be young boys who will be attracted to grad instructors. However, the bulk of the problem area is the desire of young boys to challenge the authority of the female instructor. For young girls toward male instructors, it's almost always sexual attraction due to power.) Sure enough. During my grad school years, I had at least one female student make passes at me each semester. One girl even said, "I'll do anything." You probably don't believe me. That's okay. I'm just telling you why some men want power -- when you have it, the whole world opens up with new opportunities. I'm not suggesting girls were climbing all over RB and it was somehow their fault. No, I'm not saying that all. What I'm saying is that once you're in a position of power, you have certain responsibilities to discourage such behavior from them because it's going to happen. And certainly don't go looking for it because these girls are impressionable, naive, and, at times, just plain too eager to please. Doesn't matter whether we believe your story or not, it's the fact that your story has absolutely nothing to do with this case. You're talking about underclass college students having consensual sex with older college students. This story is about a 16 year old girl who was assaulted and raped by a 29 year old man.
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Post by ProfessorPlum on Jul 19, 2016 7:23:22 GMT -5
It's not physical attraction. The attraction is power and authority and the craving by some girls to be noticed by those in power. When I was a grad student, I had the privilege (or burden) of teaching classes to young college students, most of them freshmen and sophomores. Before embarking on this endeavor, the school provided us with some training and orientation. One of the things that the trainers stressed was that a lot of college students are impressionable young adults who, just a few months ago, were in high school. They told us (both male and female grad students) to expect these young students to be attracted to us, not because we are physically attractive but because they want acceptance from people in power. They told us to think back to when we were in high school. They asked us: were we the kind of student who were the stud in high school or the beauty queen all the boys drooled over? Or were we the kind that struggled to find dates or were otherwise ordinary in high school? Chances are, if you were the latter, those college students who are now making passes at you are doing so not because we're so handsome or beautiful but because we hold positions of power and authority. They said to expect some of our students to be drawn to us, but under no condition are we to pursue it. There were strict ethical guidelines. (The dynamic is different for female instructors. There will always be young boys who will be attracted to grad instructors. However, the bulk of the problem area is the desire of young boys to challenge the authority of the female instructor. For young girls toward male instructors, it's almost always sexual attraction due to power.) Sure enough. During my grad school years, I had at least one female student make passes at me each semester. One girl even said, "I'll do anything." You probably don't believe me. That's okay. I'm just telling you why some men want power -- when you have it, the whole world opens up with new opportunities. I'm not suggesting girls were climbing all over RB and it was somehow their fault. No, I'm not saying that all. What I'm saying is that once you're in a position of power, you have certain responsibilities to discourage such behavior from them because it's going to happen. And certainly don't go looking for it because these girls are impressionable, naive, and, at times, just plain too eager to please. That's great insight and kudos to that institution for providing you that training. It should be used more in our society. When I was in graduate school, I bartended, and I was much better looking behind the bar. Of course no training was given for bartenders! It is also very common place when managing large work forces or a political candidate. But when in those positions, if you don't check your ego or sexual desires, it will lead to your downfall. There are 1,000's of high profile examples out there. I personally have made mistakes in this area early in my career (all parties were well into their 20's) and it's very easy to let happen if you are unaware of what's happening or you have some ego driven deficiencies. Again not uncommon at all. But, and I know you agree, when you add in a narcissist and a sexual pervert (15 yr olds) to the equation you have a recipe for disaster and not something that fits inside of our social or society norms. What you then have is a sexual predator that should be in jail!
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Post by BuckysHeat on Jul 19, 2016 8:07:39 GMT -5
Chicago parents do not support Rick Butler. Those who probably sent their child will support RB especially if their child was not impacted. It is the old "the ends justify the means" BS. We had a choice, we did not choose SP because I heard a rumor he molested the players or something was not right, don't know where I heard it. When the time to try out, SP was definitely out for this reason and how the club was run. Now hearing it was lead by Rick Butler, and what he is being accused of, it makes sense. Parents paid thousands for their children to play for SP, YET THE CHILDREN WERE EXPECTED TO CLEAN THE PUBLIC BATHROOMS during tournaments. He couldn't hire someone .. no, this was a meant to control and demean, it is how predators work. The SP teams players were not allowed to talk with players from other teams, again control Practice times were excessive, the most of any club in Chicago, so yes, if you practice 3 hrs/4 days/week, work weekend tournaments, SP becomes your life, you have no outside life. Again control, separate the child from outside influences. As far as he is a good coach, look up the definition, anybody can make a player practice ungodly amount of hours and yes they will get good. Girls who played for SP had no life, they went to school and played at SP. Missing proms, dances, etc. The girls from other teams called them stepford wives, they all looked the same, had the same physique, kept to themselves, etc. So it doesn't surprise me, what surprises me is how he was able to get away with it. A GOOD coach, teaches life skills, the ability to think for yourself, and is able to teach sports skills without sacrificing other aspect of their life. And obviously a good coach doesn't sleep/tease/demean/flirt with his players. I am not a SP hater, just not a fan of their methods, and now I understand why. How dare you. Maybe this is not for you or your kid, maybe you and your kid do not have the same determination or drive as the players at SP but for you to come on here and say that they are giving up their lives and have nothing outside of volleyball while sitting on the outside is disgusting. SP says that the program is not for everybody and as other people say there is a club for everybody. You may think that that much practice is excessive, if so good for you, go elsewhere. But when your kid is walking off the court after getting their a$$ handed to them AGAIN by a SP team do not question why that is. And before the pitchforks come after me, I do not have any stake in SP, I live over 2 hours away so my kids are not in the program. But to bash the kids who are dedicating so much of themselves to achieve a goal is pathetic.
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Post by knowthetruth on Jul 19, 2016 8:13:44 GMT -5
Chicago parents do not support Rick Butler. Those who probably sent their child will support RB especially if their child was not impacted. It is the old "the ends justify the means" BS. We had a choice, we did not choose SP because I heard a rumor he molested the players or something was not right, don't know where I heard it. When the time to try out, SP was definitely out for this reason and how the club was run. Now hearing it was lead by Rick Butler, and what he is being accused of, it makes sense. Parents paid thousands for their children to play for SP, YET THE CHILDREN WERE EXPECTED TO CLEAN THE PUBLIC BATHROOMS during tournaments. He couldn't hire someone .. no, this was a meant to control and demean, it is how predators work. The SP teams players were not allowed to talk with players from other teams, again control Practice times were excessive, the most of any club in Chicago, so yes, if you practice 3 hrs/4 days/week, work weekend tournaments, SP becomes your life, you have no outside life. Again control, separate the child from outside influences. As far as he is a good coach, look up the definition, anybody can make a player practice ungodly amount of hours and yes they will get good. Girls who played for SP had no life, they went to school and played at SP. Missing proms, dances, etc. The girls from other teams called them stepford wives, they all looked the same, had the same physique, kept to themselves, etc. So it doesn't surprise me, what surprises me is how he was able to get away with it. A GOOD coach, teaches life skills, the ability to think for yourself, and is able to teach sports skills without sacrificing other aspect of their life. And obviously a good coach doesn't sleep/tease/demean/flirt with his players. I am not a SP hater, just not a fan of their methods, and now I understand why. How dare you. Maybe this is not for you or your kid, maybe you and your kid do not have the same determination or drive as the players at SP but for you to come on here and say that they are giving up their lives and have nothing outside of volleyball while sitting on the outside is disgusting. SP says that the program is not for everybody and as other people say there is a club for everybody. You may think that that much practice is excessive, if so good for you, go elsewhere. But when your kid is walking off the court after getting their a$$ handed to them AGAIN by a SP team do not question why that is. And before the pitchforks come after me, I do not have any stake in SP, I live over 2 hours away so my kids are not in the program. But to bash the kids who are dedicating so much of themselves to achieve a goal is pathetic.
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Post by knowthetruth on Jul 19, 2016 8:20:20 GMT -5
How dare you. Maybe this is not for you or your kid, maybe you and your kid do not have the same determination or drive as the players at SP but for you to come on here and say that they are giving up their lives and have nothing outside of volleyball while sitting on the outside is disgusting. SP says that the program is not for everybody and as other people say there is a club for everybody. You may think that that much practice is excessive, if so good for you, go elsewhere. But when your kid is walking off the court after getting their a$$ handed to them AGAIN by a SP team do not question why that is. And before the pitchforks come after me, I do not have any stake in SP, I live over 2 hours away so my kids are not in the program. But to bash the kids who are dedicating so much of themselves to achieve a goal is pathetic. I don't think he is criticizing the athletes. He is accurately describing how a sexual predator works. He breaks the athlete down so there is no resistance to his rape and molestation. The girls are all victims. Again, my wife played for this monster. She was abused mentally and physically by this rapist. When she refused his sexual advances she was punished physically in practice. This is how he worked. My wife has first hand testimony of rape. He is a rapist. My wife played and agrees, she had no life. No boyfriends. No proms. Hardly saw her family. This is how a rapist breaks down a person so she is vulnerable.
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