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Post by trek4sa on Feb 17, 2017 11:43:30 GMT -5
It's still early for the NCAA to announce the location for the 2018 collegiate National Beach Volleyball Championship but I wanted a thread to share info when it comes out. At last years championship the NCAA said in an interview the pairs WILL BE BACK...at some point, also another huge topic up in the air. I've been to the championship the last 2 years and Gulf Shores, Alabama does an amazing job, I'll be very curious what happens all around in 2018. From what I remember the Fall of 2015 the NCAA announced Gulf Shores would be the championship site for 2016 and 2017. I can't wait for the pairs to return, it took the tourney to another level. The pairs sadly ended with the 2015 championship when the AVCA was still in control.
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Post by slackerdad on Feb 17, 2017 13:31:03 GMT -5
I'm hopeful that they will eventually add a pairs competition. Tennis has singles, doubles AND a team championships. A 32-team double elimination beach volleyball tournament could be done in 3 days (or 2 days if you do pool-play followed by single elimination of top 16)
It would really help the non-traditional beach volleyball schools if they had a paris championship as the talent would be better distributed among the schools. As it is now if you are a top player who wants to win a national championship, you really only have about 6 schools to choose from. With a pairs championship, any duo could have a chance to compete. I'd much rather see athletes go to schools that are a good fit for them and still have the opportunity to compete for a championship.
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Post by trek4sa on Feb 17, 2017 13:55:46 GMT -5
Pairs was the best thing to me about the championship up until 2015 because you saw many schools with pairs that were never close to making the teams competition and overall the level of play was higher in pairs. It gives so many more girls hope to make the championships when there's pairs included. I'm not sure about this but I think I heard they cut pairs because of money and the NCAA wanted to focus on locking down the flow, format of the teams competition...if that went well bring back pairs at some point. The team competition in Gulf Shores has gotten pretty much all positive feedback with last year being the NCAA first year controlling everything and they put a TONN of money into that event, they went all out..I was there, IMPRESSIVE.
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Post by trek4sa on Feb 17, 2017 14:14:38 GMT -5
In 2015 these schools had pairs at the national championship:UCLA, USC, Pepperdine, Hawaii, LMU, GSU, LBSU, FIU, UAB, ULM, College of Charleston, Tulane, LSU, FSU, GCU Arizona had 2 pairs..I might of missed 1 or 2. The finals was a win for Hughes/Claes (USC) over Flint/Sponcil (LMU). Without pairs we never would of saw Flint who's on the AVP tour now and Sponcil who played in the junior worlds.
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Post by trollhunter on Feb 18, 2017 20:58:30 GMT -5
It's still early for the NCAA to announce the location for the 2018 collegiate National Beach Volleyball Championship but I wanted a thread to share info when it comes out. At last years championship the NCAA said in an interview the pairs WILL BE BACK...at some point, also another huge topic up in the air. I've been to the championship the last 2 years and Gulf Shores, Alabama does an amazing job, I'll be very curious what happens all around in 2018. From what I remember the Fall of 2015 the NCAA announced Gulf Shores would be the championship site for 2016 and 2017. I can't wait for the pairs to return, it took the tourney to another level. The pairs sadly ended with the 2015 championship when the AVCA was still in control. My guess is that Gulf Shores puts in the best bid again and gets awarded 2018 and 2019 site. I don't see anyone else with a similar facility putting in the effort to match or exceed what they do to make it a quality event. The pairs event would be great, but they have to figure out the right way to implement. While I think pairs would be great, the AVCA experimented with different formats for them, and IMHO never really got it right. |
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Post by downtheline on Feb 18, 2017 23:05:34 GMT -5
Troll could you please share what you feel the ACVA did wrong and which changes you would implement to make the pairs event better?
They had it perfect from 2012 - 2015. The only thing the people that voted it to the sidelines (NCAA championship committee) didn't like was one school dominating the field through 2017 and beyond.
It wasn't a matter of money, it wasn't that it took an extra day, it wasn't for the lack of the greatest percentage of coaches and athletes wanting it.
It was coach and her band of friends social engineering the sport so they might have a chance to win, which has backfired on them and will continue to.
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Post by trek4sa on Feb 18, 2017 23:52:47 GMT -5
I would appreciate hearing Trollhunter's thoughts on the pairs competition as well, I thought the 2015 pairs competition went very well.
My gut told me the pairs were sidelined partial for the reason Downtheline shared...preventing dominance from 1 school, pairs. I definitely don't think money was the issue and overall the interest is there to have the pairs.
I agree with Trollhunter, I don't see another city, venue willing to invest what it tales to put on the championship like Gulf Shores. The city LOVES the event, the tourism board, NCAA was very pleased and so on. I remember hearing in 2015 Cali was just way too expensive for them to hold the event. Having The Hangout restaurant right there is ideal and it can handle the crowds, I don't seen anyone doing better.
I did appreciate the NCAA committing Gulf Shores for the event for 2 years (2016 and 2017) so people could book things (hotels, airlines,etc..) well ahead of time.
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Feb 19, 2017 0:35:52 GMT -5
The bidding process is currently under way. There are three bids I'm aware of, including Gulf Shores. Unless someone else comes in with a killer proposal, I think Gulf Shores remains the favorite. BTW, the NCAA would love to see a championship in Santa Monica, Manhattan or Hermosa, but it's just too damn expensive relative to Gulf Shores.
I'm not sure there is a "perfect" formula for a pairs championship, but I personally thought the 2015 event was done pretty well, although a bit convoluted. However, given the increased number of schools with beach programs and the expanded team field for the NC, it will need to be tweaked some.
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Post by trek4sa on Feb 19, 2017 11:54:43 GMT -5
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Post by downtheline on Feb 19, 2017 12:03:03 GMT -5
I usually enjoy VBMag but this article was a hack job. Why not interview the coach with the best record and the most to loose (national pairs championship)? Or why tow the party line without investigative reporting? |
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Post by trek4sa on Feb 19, 2017 12:18:55 GMT -5
I totally agree a certain coach should of been interviewed.
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Post by gobruins on Feb 19, 2017 13:02:45 GMT -5
The bidding process is currently under way. There are three bids I'm aware of, including Gulf Shores. Unless someone else comes in with a killer proposal, I think Gulf Shores remains the favorite. BTW, the NCAA would love to see a championship in Santa Monica, Manhattan or Hermosa, but it's just too damn expensive relative to Gulf Shores. I'm not sure there is a "perfect" formula for a pairs championship, but I personally thought the 2015 event was done pretty well, although a bit convoluted. However, given the increased number of schools with beach programs and the expanded team field for the NC, it will need to be tweaked some. Having a Beach VB championship in So. Calif. would probably eat up almost all of that billion dollars that CBS/Turner is paying them to televise the basketball tournament. Can't spend that kind of money on Beach VB when you have to save it for basketball. |
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Post by downtheline on Feb 19, 2017 13:57:11 GMT -5
The Turner producer from last year said the NCAA wasted his resources for what could have been a Sunday pairs final. His crew and systems were in place, the money already spent, he wasn't leaving until Monday or Tuesday anyway, so producing and filming the pairs event final on Sunday was a no brainer, with little incremental increase in cost to the NCAA.
In years past part of the pairs tourney was run during the team event, so the notion put forward that they need another venue, another weekend to accomplish a pairs championship is false. Many of the courts sat empty so there was no lack of beach, or existing courts or room to add a few more nets/courts if needed.
It seemed that there were more NCAA personnel, committees and board members there than athletes. I'd like to see a budget analysis of overhead cost vs. athlete costs, but that will not be forthcoming since the makeup of the Championship committee is not for public consumption. Seriously, how much could 12 more pairs or 24 athletes have added to the overall cost of this event that weekend?
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Post by trollhunter on Feb 19, 2017 14:28:41 GMT -5
Since a few of you asked, here are my thoughts on the AVCA pairs tournament.
First, I love pairs events and it showcases our sport to general public better than the team game. Best athletes, better quality of play, etc.
IMHO, AVCA botched the format of this event from the start. While 2015 may have been "better" than past years, the way the pairs tournament was organized, formatted, and run was terrible. GeedyLee's "convoluted" might sum it up best.
1) There was no selection criteria - pairs with losing records could and did get in some years. Don't even mention seeding.
2) Having #1 pairs in the team championship get byes for 2 days into the single elim pairs bracket is not fair to half the pairs.
3) Having #2 pairs in the team championship play 1 play-in match is not fair to them or to half the pairs.
The pairs event needed (needs) to be separate from the team event not concurrent. Simpler solution was have Team event Fri/Sat and Pairs event Sat/Sun. Maybe give top pairs playing in Team Finals a single bye on Saturday afternoon and play as normal Sunday.
4) Changing the bracket/pairings on last day so that two pairs from same school can't face each other in the final is bogus. Learn how to pick a format, setup and seed a bracket if you don't want that to happen. Don't change things in final day. "For TV".
5) Pool play for 2 days then a single elim bracket is delicious in theory, but will NOT be what NCAA uses. Look at NCAA Tennis for singles and doubles. And pretty much every NCAA sport. SINGLE ELIM bracket, win or go home. We were lucky to get double-elim for team championship.
The AVCA committee really wasted a huge 3 year opportunity to sell pairs TO THE NCAA, by not having pairs separate from team (like NCAA will do) and not picking a format that might be similar to what NCAA will use (perhaps double elim?). And I told them so at the time.
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Post by Fight On! on Feb 28, 2017 23:43:12 GMT -5
I tried to find results of the 2013, 2014, and 2015 seasons on AVCA, but struggled to locate them. Is it easy for anyone to pop a link up real quick?
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