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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Aug 3, 2017 13:00:42 GMT -5
Domestically, whatever interest there is in beach volleyball on the part of sponsors/advertisers/TV networks is driven by the women's side of the sport, and it's been that way for many years.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 3, 2017 13:17:45 GMT -5
I would disagree but a fair conclusion. However even if the top match as a women's match the worst 50 non-injury ones were probably also women's matches. I think the more relevant question is what is added by having both genders. Should be a fairly simple equation, figure out who would not come out or watch if the women were eliminated, then cost that against the money saved or additional tour stops added. Now that Kerri is gone I doubt there are many people who wouldn't come to a men only tour. Also when I watch the stream the viewership always seems to go down during women's matches. Thats anecdotal of course but it seems like there is a core group of fans interested in both genders and others just interested in the men. This is because no one is familiar with the women players. I imagine Donald Sun is going to market the hell out of April, Sara & Kelly next season....After that, not sure...possibly Aprils new partner...Please God, let there be one... So when viewership picks up for an Eric Zaun match its because no one knows Lane Carico? It isn't. Its because even at the lowest level of the AVP, the men do spectacular things, or things that look awesome. Like bouncing balls into the river etc. Familiarity with players definitely helps in any sport, but most of the players on both sides have very bland or unpleasant personalities so that isnt going to help a ton anyway
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Post by guest2 on Aug 3, 2017 13:26:52 GMT -5
Domestically, whatever interest there is in beach volleyball on the part of sponsors/advertisers/TV networks is driven by the women's side of the sport, and it's been that way for many years. Sure but thats also based in part on a few things: 1) Misty/Kerri and their transcendent popularity (no longer relevant) 2) The myth that the AVP women sell as sex symbols. Every media report you ever read spotlights that and has some quote about how sexy the product is, but I have never been at an event where anyone I met even mentioned it, much less said they attended for that. 3) The idea (mistaken) that girls will become consumers of this sport and the unsupported idea that women's professional sports can succeed and be profitable in this country. In terms of growth potential it would be a mistake to try to build an audience around the female side of the game now that Kerri is gone.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 3, 2017 13:34:35 GMT -5
i will give this, Women aren't in general sports fans. I'm always in shock attending an AVP and seeing how few girls are there. There are SO many jr girls playing, but aren't getting out to watch it live. Volleyball has been huge for many generations, but were are all the past players?? Women, it seems can just stop with a sport they've played in college. the crowds should be 70-30 in favor of the women.
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Post by ebes1099 on Aug 3, 2017 13:48:40 GMT -5
Back to what started this thread...for the people who enjoy beach as a whole (Men's and Women's) it would be inconvenient to them to have to navigate to separate boards/threads to discuss the same tournament but just different genders. So why are you more important 405Lax, that we should change things to convenience you while inconveniencing others?
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Aug 3, 2017 13:55:16 GMT -5
Domestically, whatever interest there is in beach volleyball on the part of sponsors/advertisers/TV networks is driven by the women's side of the sport, and it's been that way for many years. Sure but thats also based in part on a few things: 1) Misty/Kerri and their transcendent popularity (no longer relevant) 2) The myth that the AVP women sell as sex symbols. Every media report you ever read spotlights that and has some quote about how sexy the product is, but I have never been at an event where anyone I met even mentioned it, much less said they attended for that. 3) The idea (mistaken) that girls will become consumers of this sport and the unsupported idea that women's professional sports can succeed and be profitable in this country. In terms of growth potential it would be a mistake to try to build an audience around the female side of the game now that Kerri is gone. April Ross and Sarah Hughes (who just signed an endorsement deal with Mikasa), for example, are far more marketable than anyone on the men's side.
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goudey
Banned
"I sorta get away with things like that." โDonald Trump
Posts: 1,344
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Post by goudey on Aug 3, 2017 14:14:32 GMT -5
"April Ross and Sarah Hughes (who just signed an endorsement deal with Mikasa), for example, are far more marketable than anyone on the men's side."
I don't know why Dalhausser couldn't be more marketable. I will never miss a match when he is playing, he is basically the Jeter/Jordan/Brady of beach volleyball. For a decade now he has been the best player in the world, and nobody even comes close in the US. Who is next.. Jake Gibb?
And I'm not afraid to admit I had to take an extra glance or two at what 'hand signal' Holtwick was giving during a match, just don't tell the wife.
If you can't do anything with Dalhausser on the mens side, and women in bikinis with the kinds of bodies avp ladies have, you couldn't sell a cold beer to a guy dying in the desert. Or so you would think... is it the sport? People just don't get into it? But how can you get people to watch tennis and golf for millions of dollars, but not this? It makes no sense.
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Post by 405LAX on Aug 3, 2017 15:08:44 GMT -5
Wow, great to see so many agree with me on men's beach being so much more dynamic to watch; it's really not a debate if you're being fair with your evaluation skills. Fantastic point too about WNBA/NBA, I know of no one who'd go see a WNBA game over an NBA contest, it's just more entertaining. As it is, I'll have to sift through Lane Carico mentions (couldn't pick her out of a lineup) to get to the meat of the matter, the men.
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Post by donnyw on Aug 3, 2017 18:52:16 GMT -5
Domestically, whatever interest there is in beach volleyball on the part of sponsors/advertisers/TV networks is driven by the women's side of the sport, and it's been that way for many years. Sure but thats also based in part on a few things: 1) Misty/Kerri and their transcendent popularity (no longer relevant) 2) The myth that the AVP women sell as sex symbols. Every media report you ever read spotlights that and has some quote about how sexy the product is, but I have never been at an event where anyone I met even mentioned it, much less said they attended for that. 3) The idea (mistaken) that girls will become consumers of this sport and the unsupported idea that women's professional sports can succeed and be profitable in this country. In terms of growth potential it would be a mistake to try to build an audience around the female side of the game now that Kerri is gone. You've mentioned a couple of time "Now that Kerri is Gone"....Where did she go?Let me assure you that she hasn't gone too far. She is home recovering/'rehabbing (whatever the case may be) and is far from "Gone". She will return to annoy all the naysayers that says she should retire. Not sure of the time frame, but she'll be back...๐๐
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Post by stevieofmb on Aug 3, 2017 18:56:23 GMT -5
Geddy, as always, is the voice of reason. I believe beach volleyball purists (and that includes me who started watching tournaments in the early 70's), prefer the men's game. However, middle America wants to watch women in bikinis and we need to get the entire country watching, not just the coasts.
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Post by fetchin on Aug 3, 2017 19:42:27 GMT -5
I think it's a great idea, no need to get defensive. Some people find womens sports slow and boring, I can see why some think that.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 3, 2017 20:37:07 GMT -5
College, FIVB, Pro leagues are all NOT played at the same venues. FIVB beach, AVP, NORCECA are all played at the same venues and there is only women's college. Themes overlap at beach tournaments.
For those who think it's boring, skip the women's talk, no need to segregate. We can do a better job of splitting threads though.
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Post by bigfan on Aug 3, 2017 21:58:40 GMT -5
As much as I like discussing the sport here, has anyone ever pitched having two boards for beach, one men's & one women's? I honestly have zero interest in the women's side of things and find myself having to sift through women's posts on events like Vienna. Could we start a men's/women's Manhattan thread when time is right? Just seems natural as I don't believe I'm alone on this whichever sex you prefer to discuss. NO
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Aug 3, 2017 22:17:38 GMT -5
I think the idea of splitting forums is, well, pretty silly. Just start a thread clearly labeled "Manhattan Open - Men," or something similar. Problem solved, easy peasy.
As for the dinosaurs who pine for the glory days of the 80's/90's, I get it. I mean, I was playing in some of those events. Unfortunately, Sinjin, Randy, Hov and Dodd aren't playing any more. Hell, they can barely walk these days. But I digress. At any rate, the era of a men's only tour with 20 events is dead and buried. in 2017 and beyond, separate single gender tours would kill beach volleyball as a professional sport (it's nearly on life support as it is). A combined tour gives beach VB the maximum amount of exposure to the widest range of demographics. It's pretty much the only way forward.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 3, 2017 22:56:53 GMT -5
I think the idea of splitting forums is, well, pretty silly. Just start a thread clearly labeled "Manhattan Open - Men," or something similar. Problem solved, easy peasy. As for the dinosaurs who pine for the glory days of the 80's/90's, I get it. I mean, I was playing in some of those events. Unfortunately, Sinjin, Randy, Hov and Dodd aren't playing any more. Hell, they can barely walk these days. But I digress. At any rate, the era of a men's only tour with 20 events is dead and buried. in 2017 and beyond, separate single gender tours would kill beach volleyball as a professional sport (it's nearly on life support as it is). A combined tour gives beach VB the maximum amount of exposure to the widest range of demographics. It's pretty much the only way forward. Your point makes sense if you accept that BVB is different from literally every other major sport but you offer no reason why it would be. Neither do you offer any evidence that a women's tour is particularly marketable beyond two players, both of whom are now more or less retired. As to the old men's tour, you say dinosaurs are pining for it, but if you could take the tour from 1987 and drop it into competition with today's tours, do you know which would draw? 1987. Women's sports do not draw and men do not watch women's for the bikinis. They just don't. In terms of the kind of attractiveness society values there are maybe 5-10 women on the FIVB that may fit the profile (I am partial to Agatha and Brandi myself) and 1 or 2 on the AVP, but people aren't attending for that, and certainly not as many as used to come for the (thoroughly misogynistic bikini contests) But women aside, the old men's tour was much more marketable because it was a lifestyle and people like yourself who are invested in the new sport and the idea that it is superior won't acknowledge that. There is a famous old AVP poster with Hov/Dodd on one side and Sinjin/Randy on the other and some bimbo dressed as a ref in the middle, and that really epitomized the old tour. They were players who lived a life people wanted. Thats what BVB needs to sell and the only way it can succeed since the athletes are not particularly athletic. (or they would be playing basketball). Today that poster would be Phil/Doherty/Nick/and maybe Gibb. Just imagine them side by side and think about why one worked and the other didn't. It didnt need to be Sinjin or Hov either, it could have been Luyties, Karch, Ack, Fro, Kent, or a dozen other guys. Who on today's tour is cool? Seriously. There are more players you would describe as weird, fringe home-schooler survivalist types, than you would as cool.
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