|
Post by donnyw on Oct 24, 2017 21:05:21 GMT -5
Volleyballjim....Do you think Kerri returns to AVP? I am one that believes she will have too in order to attempt for a Toyko run..What is your gut instinct? Tokyo run? First she needs a working shoulder. One that is up to 3 years of intense play. Then she needs a high-caliber partner who is willing to bet two or three years of her life, and her own Olympic dreams, on that shoulder. Sure, rejoining the AVP would make a Tokyo run easier. But do you really see that happening, given all the acrimony. I don't know; I suppose stranger things have happened. From some of the talk I’ve heard is that KWJ will not return until 2019 to full time play. May play in a few tourneys late 2018. It will be very interesting to say the least and a pretty remarkable story if she can indeed qualify for her 6th Olympics. I hear you regarding the AVP...I just have a hard time thinking that this is another Kent Steffes deal where she walks away from the domestic tour she called Home since she was 23 years old for good. It’s quite obvious that feeling got hurt somewhere along the line between her & Donald Sun, but I am cautiously optimistic cooler heads will prevail & that they can reach common ground.
|
|
|
Post by volleyballjim on Oct 24, 2017 21:52:35 GMT -5
donnyw: I have no idea, really, if she returns, but my gut says "no". I think whoever advised her during these times misassessed the environment. I "kinna" understand her story on this break with the AVP (as much as one can) but it really isn't any 800lb gorilla in any environment. The odd thing is I was AGAINST the new rule (net is fine for everyone, but the sideout scoring at the end I thought was "too little, too late" for the diehards and I've always liked Rally Scoring....WRONG, I was....EVERYONE seems to LOVE it (Myself included; the game is NEVER over and gives you that "life" you need at a 20-17 game...I actually haven't run across any fan who does not like it and its not as big a deal as I thought. I think Manhattan's success (HUGE VENUE, etc.) showed what the AVP looks like without Kerri. Not do downplay her role in this sport, but there wasn't even ROOM for the possible positive effect she might have on attendance.
For her 2020 role, you never rule her out. I know NOTHING about her shoulder, so I turn that to the guys in the know, but she's one of those people that rise to the occasion and she is a top player. April was supposed to be the best in the world, but her recent work has not supported that. Still want to know what Rio would have looked like with her on her comfortable side (left). 3 Golds and she is not only a huge player at the net but pulls better than most.
Regardless, sad to see her gone and re. the NVL, "come on"...BUT any women's tourney without Kerri is certainly a bit jaded as we know how she does on our AVP tour when she's there...
|
|
|
Post by guest2 on Oct 25, 2017 8:54:30 GMT -5
Tokyo run? First she needs a working shoulder. One that is up to 3 years of intense play. Then she needs a high-caliber partner who is willing to bet two or three years of her life, and her own Olympic dreams, on that shoulder. Sure, rejoining the AVP would make a Tokyo run easier. But do you really see that happening, given all the acrimony. I don't know; I suppose stranger things have happened. From some of the talk I’ve heard is that KWJ will not return until 2019 to full time play. May play in a few tourneys late 2018. It will be very interesting to say the least and a pretty remarkable story if she can indeed qualify for her 6th Olympics. I hear you regarding the AVP...I just have a hard time thinking that this is another Kent Steffes deal where she walks away from the domestic tour she called Home since she was 23 years old for good. It’s quite obvious that feeling got hurt somewhere along the line between her & Donald Sun, but I am cautiously optimistic cooler heads will prevail & that they can reach common ground. I doubt she comes back to the AVP. First domestic play has not been a priority for her since the money went away. Second Kerri is not physically capable of playing a ton of events. Her last two injuries both took place on fairly routine plays. She has to understand that the more she plays the more likely she is to reinjure herself. If she does try to play again, I expect her to practice at a maintenance level and play only big money FIVB events. Finally I disagree with those who say that the AVP has shown that Kerri wouldn't be a huge asset. I think Kerri was so rarely available prior to this year, both by not showing up and being at drastically reduced effectiveness, that the baseline we are comparing against is also the last few years when Kerri was not really playing regularly and well. The AVP is doing fine without her but a committed Kerri who was working with the AVP would be a giant asset - but so would a weather God who made it 75 and sunny with marginal wind for every event. Its not in places like Manhattan where she is needed, those fans know BVB, its in places like New Orleans, where the pool of fans in the know is smaller and where casual fans might decide to show up or not depending on whether they get to take a selfie with Kerri
|
|
|
Post by volleyballjim on Oct 25, 2017 9:55:11 GMT -5
Can't argue with guest2...good points.
|
|
|
Post by donnyw on Oct 25, 2017 13:10:19 GMT -5
Thanks VBJ & Guest2... Some great points by both of you...Agreeed that Kerri's presence in some other areas of the Country other than the MAnhatten Beach, Hermosa Beach, Long Beach, etc would be huge. I also can't believe that a couple of minor rule changes is what drove her away from the AVP.!Maybe a couple of rule changes plus 150,000 owed? Guess we'll find out if it was owed early 2018...
|
|
|
Post by johnbar on Oct 25, 2017 15:51:24 GMT -5
... The odd thing is I was AGAINST the new rule (net is fine for everyone, but the sideout scoring at the end I thought was "too little, too late" for the diehards and I've always liked Rally Scoring....WRONG, I was....EVERYONE seems to LOVE it (Myself included; the game is NEVER over and gives you that "life" you need at a 20-17 game...I actually haven't run across any fan who does not like it and its not as big a deal as I thought.... I thought the new rules were stupid when I first heard about them. After watching the AVP in SF, I also changed my mind ... somewhat. I still suspect they are confusing for the casual fan. But of course, there are plenty of matches where they never really come into play: a team gets to match point and then scores the point, match over. But I do enjoy the continuing play in a close set for the match. So I have mixed feelings about the new rules. I don't think I would say I "LOVE" them, but they are certainly "not as big a deal" as I first thought, either. Anyway, I think KWJ claimed the problem was that the players weren't given a chance to provide input on the rules, not just the rules themselves. But I'm not sure even that is true.
|
|
|
Post by volleyballjim on Oct 25, 2017 16:29:26 GMT -5
johnbar: Yeah, KWJ wanted inclusion; thats a tough thing to evaluate as she is so much bigger than the rest of the field (literally AND metaphorically)...I think Donald Sun wants to sell "Beach Volleyball" and not a specific star (and be held in constraint by such). They had quite a varied inventory of players in '17 and it seemed to work; SF was a smaller field, but the experience was spectacular. He's sticking to the stops that produce the best results and that also is working; to get to the "other venues" outside of SF, NY, Hermosa, Manhattan, etc., will require this "AVP boat" rising much higher than it current is. Re. the new rules, they ARE complicated; I'm JUST about to the point where I could call a game and now screw up on when rally scoring ends (I've made TOO many mistakes in '17, but around Manhattan I had it down; average fan: NO CHANCE of springing that "They're switching to sideout now" without mistake after mistake... Anyway, lets hope '18 grows and we get a chance to see Kerri back where she belongs and the obvious partner switches that will occur, though as was said above, KWJ hasn't really had a full AVP year as you calculate with injuries, rest, FIVB, etc.
|
|
|
Post by guest2 on Oct 25, 2017 17:47:31 GMT -5
johnbar: Yeah, KWJ wanted inclusion; thats a tough thing to evaluate as she is so much bigger than the rest of the field (literally AND metaphorically)...I think Donald Sun wants to sell "Beach Volleyball" and not a specific star (and be held in constraint by such). They had quite a varied inventory of players in '17 and it seemed to work; SF was a smaller field, but the experience was spectacular. He's sticking to the stops that produce the best results and that also is working; to get to the "other venues" outside of SF, NY, Hermosa, Manhattan, etc., will require this "AVP boat" rising much higher than it current is. Re. the new rules, they ARE complicated; I'm JUST about to the point where I could call a game and now screw up on when rally scoring ends (I've made TOO many mistakes in '17, but around Manhattan I had it down; average fan: NO CHANCE of springing that "They're switching to sideout now" without mistake after mistake... Anyway, lets hope '18 grows and we get a chance to see Kerri back where she belongs and the obvious partner switches that will occur, though as was said above, KWJ hasn't really had a full AVP year as you calculate with injuries, rest, FIVB, etc. Plenty of rules that are harder to understand. Why is one set a throw and another isn't. Two out of three sets but the third game is to a different score etc. Sideout scoring on match point is not that difficult
|
|
|
Post by volleyballjim on Oct 26, 2017 10:23:11 GMT -5
guest2: Yeah, there are rules that are more COMPLICATED, but not harder to reflexively know "in the moment". Once someone explains a bad set, you kinna get it, when you explain when you go to sideout scoring, it is so rare and so complicated (you freeze and THE OTHER TEAM ALSO FREEZES), I've seen it messed up TIME after TIME AND by people in the know, like announcers! Very hard to get it right every time...I'm almost there, but still mess up. Its not just the "concept" just that it applies differently, in game 2 if the same team is winning...anyway, people LOVE it...
|
|
|
Post by guest2 on Oct 26, 2017 10:30:16 GMT -5
guest2: Yeah, there are rules that are more COMPLICATED, but not harder to reflexively know "in the moment". Once someone explains a bad set, you kinna get it, when you explain when you go to sideout scoring, it is so rare and so complicated (you freeze and THE OTHER TEAM ALSO FREEZES), I've seen it messed up TIME after TIME AND by people in the know, like announcers! Very hard to get it right every time...I'm almost there, but still mess up. Its not just the "concept" just that it applies differently, in game 2 if the same team is winning...anyway, people LOVE it... You are probably right here, but still a small drawback in exchange for something awesome.
|
|
|
Post by love2vball on Oct 26, 2017 10:44:47 GMT -5
... The odd thing is I was AGAINST the new rule (net is fine for everyone, but the sideout scoring at the end I thought was "too little, too late" for the diehards and I've always liked Rally Scoring....WRONG, I was....EVERYONE seems to LOVE it (Myself included; the game is NEVER over and gives you that "life" you need at a 20-17 game...I actually haven't run across any fan who does not like it and its not as big a deal as I thought.... I thought the new rules were stupid when I first heard about them. After watching the AVP in SF, I also changed my mind ... somewhat. I still suspect they are confusing for the casual fan. But of course, there are plenty of matches where they never really come into play: a team gets to match point and then scores the point, match over. But I do enjoy the continuing play in a close set for the match. So I have mixed feelings about the new rules. I don't think I would say I "LOVE" them, but they are certainly "not as big a deal" as I first thought, either. I'm with Johnbar on this one............I think. Growing up with the sideout game, naturally I have a connection to it and although I dont miss the size of that court all these years later, there will always be something about that game that is compelling. Match Point scoring certainly brings back some of those memories and excitment. But.......I also have mixed emotions about penalizing a team who played better in a set for 20 points (or 14). Why should their trip to the tent become extended? If nothing else, one aspect of this rule should definitely being addressed. Match Point scoring should be employed only when the losing team is within 2 or 3 points of a win. If a team is down by 8 in the 2nd set after getting pasted 21-9 in the first, there is simply no reason to extend the beat down. A larger window is the only way to tell if this incorporation becomes fan and player friendly. When rally scoring came to be, matches seldom got to the third set. Now it is much more commonplace. I guess I have to conclude that more volleyball is always good for the soul.
|
|
|
Post by volleyballjim on Oct 26, 2017 12:07:45 GMT -5
Yeah love2vball, my "love" of rally scoring comes from a young career as a competitive golfer (Funny, I was #1 man at Kerri's Archbishop Mitty, but I COULDN'T BREAK 80, regularly!)...We just started Mitty 1964 with no upperclassmen and I was virtually the only guy who really knew how to play (I was 5'2" at the time, so no way I could reach greens in regulation)...That being said, golf DOES NOT reward errors. Yeah, once in a while you skull it and it goes on the green, but RARELY....So to see unforced errors not be penalized in any way, other than losing service is anathema to me...Net serve is ridiculous and it has such a great alternative (re-serve and lose point if you do it again)...
|
|
|
Post by 405LAX on Oct 26, 2017 19:55:41 GMT -5
I'm so sick and tired of talking about KW, the sport has moved on from KW, we just need the general public to accept that too.
|
|
|
Post by donnyw on Oct 26, 2017 22:18:24 GMT -5
I'm so sick and tired of talking about KW, the sport has moved on from KW, we just need the general public to accept that too. With all Do respect...You need to chill out...If you don’t want to see posts about Kerri, don’t read them & certainly don’t comment on them...End of story!
|
|
|
Post by 405LAX on Oct 27, 2017 0:31:30 GMT -5
I'm so sick and tired of talking about KW, the sport has moved on from KW, we just need the general public to accept that too. With all Do respect...You need to chill out...If you don’t want to see posts about Kerri, don’t read them & certainly don’t comment on them...End of story! First off: "due", second: point was, the sport has moved on from Kerri. Stop talking about her like she's still the queen of volleyball. She ain't.
|
|