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Post by ProfessorPlum on Nov 26, 2017 1:10:30 GMT -5
I am. Terrible losses. Terrible SOS. They have a couple early season nice wins. That doesn’t offset enough for me. I mean horrendous SOS. Like you have to try to make a bad schedule to get that bad an SOS. So they have two nice wins. Draw the line at 60 instead of 50 and LSU has a ton of wins. And they have a better RPI. well, North Texas ......WON....a LOT yeah, the SOS is poor, it's hard to evaluate I understand. And I don’t want this to be a bash of them. I just find it strange how the lines are drawn to what matters. Nice wins but if WKU ends up 26 instead of 24 should that win be discounted? Conversely, LSU is knocked because they don’t have a lot of top 50 wins. They have a ton of top 60 wins. It’s a very fine line between top 40 and top 60. Then go to the losses. Two plus 120 losses is bad however you slice it. The RPI reliance seems very flawed to me. Most people agree but than use it like the gospel in their arguments because that’s what the committee does! Everyone knows it’s flawed but we use it and the committee continues to use it. That’s approching the definition of insanity.
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Post by trollhunter on Nov 26, 2017 1:13:36 GMT -5
Look at all the criteria, not just a piece or two and you will understand. I am. Terrible losses. Terrible SOS. They have a couple early season nice wins. That doesn’t offset enough for me. I mean horrendous SOS. Like you have to try to make a bad schedule to get that bad an SOS. So they have two nice wins. Draw the line at 60 instead of 50 and LSU has a ton of wins. And they have a better RPI. No you aren't. Terrible losses isn't a criteria. It's significant wins and losses (combined). I'll make it easy for you: W/L = CofC/UNT RPI = LSU SOS = LSU Sign Win/Loss = CofC/UNT H2H = none ComOpp = CofC (via Baylor) and even for UNT So CofC wins 3 of 5 criteria with one tied UNT is even so lets go to secondary criteria: Last 10 games = UNT (9-1) vs LSU (5-5) Location of contests = UNT (lost 1 home - 2 road) vs LSU (lost 3 home - 6 road) UNT edges on secondary criteria
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Post by dman on Nov 26, 2017 1:17:52 GMT -5
I am. Terrible losses. Terrible SOS. They have a couple early season nice wins. That doesn’t offset enough for me. I mean horrendous SOS. Like you have to try to make a bad schedule to get that bad an SOS. So they have two nice wins. Draw the line at 60 instead of 50 and LSU has a ton of wins. And they have a better RPI. No you aren't. Terrible losses isn't a criteria. It's significant wins and losses (combined). I'll make it easy for you: W/L = CofC/UNT RPI = LSU SOS = LSU Sign Win/Loss = CofC/UNT H2H = none ComOpp = CofC (via Baylor) and even for UNT So CofC wins 3 of 5 criteria UNT is even so lets go to secondary criteria: Last 10 games = UNT (9-1) vs LSU (5-5) Location of contests = UNT (lost 1 home - 2 road) vs LSU (lost 3 home - 6 road) UNT edges on secondary criteria So when looking at the last 10 matches SOS doesn't matter? That makes no sense.
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Post by badgerbreath on Nov 26, 2017 1:21:10 GMT -5
I agree. These thresholds - top 25, top 50 - are completely arbitrary. Why not top 10, or top 30 or top 70? I guess the idea is that top 25 and top 50 roughly approximate the top and bottom half of teams that will get in (excluding AQs). But the difference between 25 and 26, or between 50 and 51, is pretty minimal to ascribe such a large effects.
If I were concocting a system, I would weight wins by the opponent RPI ranking and subtract losses weighted by some inverse of opponent RPI rankings. Even more precise would not be to use rankings, but actual RPIs.
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Post by midnightblue on Nov 26, 2017 1:23:15 GMT -5
Does Mich St. host the first weekend ?
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Post by fetchin on Nov 26, 2017 1:24:02 GMT -5
Does Mich St. host the first weekend ? Nope
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Post by trollhunter on Nov 26, 2017 1:26:16 GMT -5
No you aren't. Terrible losses isn't a criteria. It's significant wins and losses (combined). I'll make it easy for you: W/L = CofC/UNT RPI = LSU SOS = LSU Sign Win/Loss = CofC/UNT H2H = none ComOpp = CofC (via Baylor) and even for UNT So CofC wins 3 of 5 criteria UNT is even so lets go to secondary criteria: Last 10 games = UNT (9-1) vs LSU (5-5) Location of contests = UNT (lost 1 home - 2 road) vs LSU (lost 3 home - 6 road) UNT edges on secondary criteria So when looking at the last 10 matches SOS doesn't matter? That makes no sense. Umm, I did not say that - strawman arguments much? They look at the actual matches played. UNT split with a t25 and beat 50-200 teams. LSU lost to a t25, lost to a t50 and split with some 50-100 teams.
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Post by fetchin on Nov 26, 2017 1:27:32 GMT -5
So when looking at the last 10 matches SOS doesn't matter? That makes no sense. Umm, I did not say that - strawman arguments much? They look at the actual matches played. UNT split with a t25 and beat 50-200 teams. LSU lost to a t25, lost to a t50 and split with some 50-100 teams. Seems like some think LSU should go in just for the name on their jersey and conference they belong to lol
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Post by southie on Nov 26, 2017 1:28:16 GMT -5
Does Mich St. host the first weekend ? I don't believe so.
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Post by dman on Nov 26, 2017 1:31:18 GMT -5
So when looking at the last 10 matches SOS doesn't matter? That makes no sense. Umm, I did not say that - strawman arguments much? They look at the actual matches played. UNT split with a t25 and beat 50-200 teams. LSU lost to a t25, lost to a t50 and split with some 50-100 teams. I'm not attacking you, I'm just trying to understand the logic. If LSU went 5-5 against arguably Top 60 teams and another went 9-1 against Top 90 or greater teams it doesn't appear to be an honest assessment for consideration. That's what I'm trying to understand.
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Post by ProfessorPlum on Nov 26, 2017 1:45:09 GMT -5
Umm, I did not say that - strawman arguments much? They look at the actual matches played. UNT split with a t25 and beat 50-200 teams. LSU lost to a t25, lost to a t50 and split with some 50-100 teams. I'm not attacking you, I'm just trying to understand the logic. If LSU went 5-5 against arguably Top 60 teams and another went 9-1 against Top 90 or greater teams it doesn't appear to be an honest assessment for consideration. That's what I'm trying to understand. Dman, don’t let him play you like you’re the sensitive one. These longtimers think they can talk down to anyone that doesn’t agree with the system the NCAA uses. We understand their system. It’s not rocket science or these VB intellects couldn’t figure it out with their fingers and toes. We’ve only told them 10 times we aren’t questioning their math but their holy grail system and why it is never tweaked to come up with the actual best teams. Bottom line is it’s a terrible system if it gives you CoC over LSU. Not because what’s on the jersey but because these teams aren’t close. I’ve watched these teams recently and LSU is a much better team imho. If a system gives you something other than that it’s just an exercise.
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Post by trollhunter on Nov 26, 2017 2:00:10 GMT -5
I'm not attacking you, I'm just trying to understand the logic. If LSU went 5-5 against arguably Top 60 teams and another went 9-1 against Top 90 or greater teams it doesn't appear to be an honest assessment for consideration. That's what I'm trying to understand. Dman, don’t let him play you like you’re the sensitive one. These longtimers think they can talk down to anyone that doesn’t agree with the system the NCAA uses. We understand their system. It’s not rocket science or these VB intellects couldn’t figure it out with their fingers and toes. We’ve only told them 10 times we aren’t questioning their math but their holy grail system and why it is never tweaked to come up with the actual best teams. Bottom line is it’s a terrible system if it gives you CoC over LSU. Not because what’s on the jersey but because these teams aren’t close. I’ve watched these teams recently and LSU is a much better team imho. If a system gives you something other than that it’s just an exercise. As your prior posts show, you didn't understand. And now you propose we use your eye-test as a gauge? How scientific...
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Nov 26, 2017 2:08:23 GMT -5
I'm not attacking you, I'm just trying to understand the logic. If LSU went 5-5 against arguably Top 60 teams and another went 9-1 against Top 90 or greater teams it doesn't appear to be an honest assessment for consideration. That's what I'm trying to understand. Dman, don’t let him play you like you’re the sensitive one. These longtimers think they can talk down to anyone that doesn’t agree with the system the NCAA uses. We understand their system. It’s not rocket science or these VB intellects couldn’t figure it out with their fingers and toes. We’ve only told them 10 times we aren’t questioning their math but their holy grail system and why it is never tweaked to come up with the actual best teams. Bottom line is it’s a terrible system if it gives you CoC over LSU. Not because what’s on the jersey but because these teams aren’t close. I’ve watched these teams recently and LSU is a much better team imho. If a system gives you something other than that it’s just an exercise. Are we talking the same LSU that got swept against Tennessee? Then needed to go 5 sets to beat that Same Tennessee team playing with a second string libero AND second string setter? LSU was also swept by Georgia, and lost to Alabama for two of their last 3 matches. I'd say North Texas and LSU are pretty even. Bannister is excellent but so is Wright of North Texas (more disciplined surely).
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Post by eastcoastopp on Nov 26, 2017 2:23:21 GMT -5
Dman, don’t let him play you like you’re the sensitive one. These longtimers think they can talk down to anyone that doesn’t agree with the system the NCAA uses. We understand their system. It’s not rocket science or these VB intellects couldn’t figure it out with their fingers and toes. We’ve only told them 10 times we aren’t questioning their math but their holy grail system and why it is never tweaked to come up with the actual best teams. Bottom line is it’s a terrible system if it gives you CoC over LSU. Not because what’s on the jersey but because these teams aren’t close. I’ve watched these teams recently and LSU is a much better team imho. If a system gives you something other than that it’s just an exercise. Are we talking the same LSU that got swept against Tennessee? Then needed to go 5 sets to beat that Same Tennessee team playing with a second string libero AND second string setter? LSU was also swept by Georgia, and lost to Alabama for two of their last 3 matches. I'd say North Texas and LSU are pretty even. Bannister is excellent but so is Wright of North Texas (more disciplined surely). I have to agree. I loved LSU in the pre-conference as well as the beginning of conference but my god. The struggles with Tennessee, and Georgia and Alabama of late, really made me question if they even should have been in the tournament. I'll give them the first loss to Tennessee. They had just came of a 5 set loss to Kentucky but still had no business getting swept by the Volunteers at home. And in the first two sets against Tennessee on Friday, the back row just looked slow and bored. I'm glad Fran probably ripped into them after that second set to get them back in it. As much as I would love for the SEC as a league to get one more team in, LSU (as of late) just didn't do enough for me. As far as the North Texas argument, I just personally want them to be in because I like the team as a whole. As far as whether or not they're deserving? That's another question and debate. Up to the committee I guess but both teams seem like a bit of a stretch at this point.
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Nov 26, 2017 13:27:06 GMT -5
Here is my bracket (what I think the committee will do). The RPI cut-line is #47 North Texas as the last team. I am going with NC State and Maryland in and High Point and North Texas out.
1. Penn State (VCU, James Madison, Howard) 16. BYU (Oregon, Maryland, Denver)
8. Washington (Michigan, Florida State, LIU Brooklyn) 9. Utah (Louisville, Colorado State, Coastal Carolina)
4. Nebraska (Kansas, Missouri State, Fairfield) 13. UCLA (Cal Poly, NC State, Radford)
5. Texas (Pittsburgh, Hawaii, Stony Brook) 12. Creighton (Wichita State, Missouri, American)
3. Florida (Miami-FL, College of Charleston, Alabama State) 14. Wisconsin (Marquette, Notre Dame, Cleveland State)
6. Kentucky (Purdue, Kennesaw State, East Tennessee State) 11. Baylor (Michigan State, Oregon State, Central Arkansas)
2. Stanford (Western Kentucky, Austin Peay, CSU Bakersfield) 15. Iowa State (Illinois, Washington State, Miami-OH)
7. Minnesota (Colorado, Northern Iowa, North Dakota) 10. USC (San Diego, LSU, Princeton)
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