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Post by ironhammer on Feb 12, 2018 10:11:02 GMT -5
So what's the enforcement mechanism for breaking a commitment that the NCAA itself doesn't recognize? You got a problem with the idea coaches should face consequences for not honoring an early commitment?
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Post by mervinswerved on Feb 12, 2018 10:18:53 GMT -5
So what's the enforcement mechanism for breaking a commitment that the NCAA itself doesn't recognize? You got a problem with the idea coaches should face consequences for not honoring an early commitment? One from the NCAA for bouncing a verbal commit from a kid without an NLI? Yes. Any time a coach pulls an offer from a verbally-committed recruit, they anger club coaches, who are the gatekeepers for almost every player in the country. They risk bad press. They open themselves up to negative recruiting by their competitors. There are lots of consequences when a coach pulls an offer from one of their commits.
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Post by ironhammer on Feb 12, 2018 10:29:03 GMT -5
You got a problem with the idea coaches should face consequences for not honoring an early commitment? There are lots of consequences when a coach pulls an offer from one of their commits. Well clearly that isn't enough to deter all coaches from pulling that trick...otherwise why would we be talking about it?
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Post by mervinswerved on Feb 12, 2018 11:11:05 GMT -5
I mean, people still get rung up on NCAA violations even though the vast majority of coaches follow the rules. Also, it's not a "trick." Sometimes plans change. Someone transfers, has a career-ending injury, or another recruit decommits. Suddenly, you have to make some hard choices. And yes, sometimes, a coach just decides they can get a better player.
If recruits want protection from coaches pulling offers, they shouldn't commit until they can sign an NLI. Both sides know situation when they enter into a verbal commitment. It sucks when someone loses out on their dream school, just like when a coaching staff loses out on a dream recruit when she changes her mind. On some level, I understand why some club directors keep doors open for their players long after they've finished the recruiting process.
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Post by ay2013 on Feb 12, 2018 15:48:10 GMT -5
You got a problem with the idea coaches should face consequences for not honoring an early commitment? One from the NCAA for bouncing a verbal commit from a kid without an NLI? Yes. Any time a coach pulls an offer from a verbally-committed recruit, they anger club coaches, who are the gatekeepers for almost every player in the country. They risk bad press. They open themselves up to negative recruiting by their competitors. There are lots of consequences when a coach pulls an offer from one of their commits. I agree with this, which is why I said for the poster to call out the program! I think it would be way too far reaching for the school to be officially sanctioned by the NCAA for not honoring a verbal commitment. The shaft CAN and DOES work both ways. Are players punished or having a late change of heart before signing a NLI? no. the most we can hope for is for the coaches that pull these shenanigans to be publicly shamed among the people that matter the most: other recruits.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Feb 12, 2018 17:43:13 GMT -5
I agree with this, which is why I said for the poster to call out the program! I think it would be way too far reaching for the school to be officially sanctioned by the NCAA for not honoring a verbal commitment. The shaft CAN and DOES work both ways. Are players punished or having a late change of heart before signing a NLI? no. the most we can hope for is for the coaches that pull these shenanigans to be publicly shamed among the people that matter the most: other recruits. One recently won a national championship. So much for being punished.
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Post by ironhammer on Feb 12, 2018 20:57:37 GMT -5
I mean, people still get rung up on NCAA violations even though the vast majority of coaches follow the rules. Also, it's not a "trick." Sometimes plans change. Someone transfers, has a career-ending injury, or another recruit decommits. Suddenly, you have to make some hard choices. And yes, sometimes, a coach just decides they can get a better player.If recruits want protection from coaches pulling offers, they shouldn't commit until they can sign an NLI. Both sides know situation when they enter into a verbal commitment. It sucks when someone loses out on their dream school, just like when a coaching staff loses out on a dream recruit when she changes her mind. On some level, I understand why some club directors keep doors open for their players long after they've finished the recruiting process. Of course it's a trick, coaches, if they don't want a recruit anymore, can find something in this bag of tricks to pull it off without dealing with the messy consequences for the recruit. And where did anyone here say coaches don't make hard choices? Of course he has to decide who has to make the cut and who doesn't. That's his job, that is what he is paid to do. That's not the issue here however. The issue is the recruit being left hanging. Surely there can be a better way to manage expectations for the recruit and coaches, and also impose consequences for the coach so that he can't just pull the mat from under the recruit with no prior warning or consequences.
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Post by ironhammer on Feb 12, 2018 21:01:59 GMT -5
One from the NCAA for bouncing a verbal commit from a kid without an NLI? Yes. Any time a coach pulls an offer from a verbally-committed recruit, they anger club coaches, who are the gatekeepers for almost every player in the country. They risk bad press. They open themselves up to negative recruiting by their competitors. There are lots of consequences when a coach pulls an offer from one of their commits. I agree with this, which is why I said for the poster to call out the program! I think it would be way too far reaching for the school to be officially sanctioned by the NCAA for not honoring a verbal commitment. The shaft CAN and DOES work both ways. Are players punished or having a late change of heart before signing a NLI? no. the most we can hope for is for the coaches that pull these shenanigans to be publicly shamed among the people that matter the most: other recruits. I would say the shaft is worse from the recruit's perspective than the coach. The coach usually has other choices as a form of insurance, they are less ideal choices to be sure, but nevertheless they can always find someone to fill that spot, most of the time. That's not the same for the recruit. It's usually harder for him or her to find another team at the last minute.
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Post by urkillinmesmalls on Feb 13, 2018 10:33:49 GMT -5
Another reason why there's early recruitment, the opportunity to be better at a given sport at a younger age is greater. Kids are better athletes and players at younger ages than they used to be.
In just watching the Olympics, you are seeing it more often. Gold Medal for Men's slopestyle - 17 years old. Gold Medal for Women's halfpipe - 17 years old. The time and the opportunity for early mastery has grown in the last 10 years.
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Post by rblackley on Mar 14, 2018 15:10:09 GMT -5
Back in the day (a year or so ago) Volleyball verbals were as good as gold. Unlike football and basketball where kids and coaches routinely change commits many times before the NLI. Most of the problems came from kids making an early verbal and then continuing to shop for a better deal. The last year or so you see the "formally committed to school X is now committed to school Y. If this trend continues like other sports VB coaches will be forced to do like FB and BB and get more verbals than they need and drop the lowest right before the NLI. Dont blame the Coaches, its the kids that created this frog jumping approach. IMHO
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Post by maɡˈnōlēə on Mar 14, 2018 19:49:23 GMT -5
Back in the day (a year or so ago) Volleyball verbals were as good as gold. Unlike football and basketball where kids and coaches routinely change commits many times before the NLI. Most of the problems came from kids making an early verbal and then continuing to shop for a better deal. The last year or so you see the "formally committed to school X is now committed to school Y. If this trend continues like other sports VB coaches will be forced to do like FB and BB and get more verbals than they need and drop the lowest right before the NLI. Dont blame the Coaches, its the kids that created this frog jumping approach. IMHO Just another reason for this insanity to be slowed down.
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Post by notwvb on Mar 14, 2018 21:25:53 GMT -5
... The last year or so you see the "formally committed to school X is now committed to school Y. If this trend continues like other sports VB coaches will be forced to do like FB and BB and get more verbals than they need and drop the lowest right before the NLI. Dont blame the Coaches, its the kids that created this frog jumping approach. IMHO Would be interested in seeing a list of the jumping frogs from the last year or so establishing a trend. I'm aware of the club AA setter who created a School Wanted thread on this board, but are there many others? Mind is fading, but can't recall a single recent high profile oral flipper. And, I really try to avoid those 8th grade drivers on the road.
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Post by wmiv1895 on Mar 14, 2018 21:32:51 GMT -5
2 quick questions: 1. Is it still Sept 1, Junior year? A parent was trying to tell me it was now (or soon will be) Jan 1, Junior year. 2. How would things change if scholarships were 4 year commitments, instead of 1? In D2, June 15th after the sophomore year, full contact off campus(unlimited) and official visits are allowed. Have not heard of the potential change coming to D1 dates. I think this can also lead to some confusion with recruits since the different divisions have different rules, dates, etc...
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Post by 642fiddi on Mar 15, 2018 11:57:24 GMT -5
I have said this before. The minute a college coach quits recruiting a PSA after a verbal commitment, he/she is guilty of collusion. We have all heard stories of the PSA that de-commits late and has not been recruited for years.
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Post by jma1968 on Mar 16, 2018 16:20:49 GMT -5
I have said this before. The minute a college coach quits recruiting a PSA after a verbal commitment, he/she is guilty of collusion. We have all heard stories of the PSA that de-commits late and has not been recruited for years. Men's basketball and football coaches would wholeheartedly agree with you... although it isn't like they are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.
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