Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Texas 2019
Dec 16, 2019 13:20:27 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 13:20:27 GMT -5
They have an OH that passes very well. Egglestone passed a 2.16 on the season. I don't know why no one is aware of that. Eggleston doesn't hold up under heavier service pressure. She is not the answer to Texas' passing woes. I haven't isolated her SR at the end of sets or looked at it versus, for instance, topspin serves or better serving teams. I could do if anyone cares but the headline is she's a better passer than people think. I'm not sure if it's the association with White that tarnished her or because the Texas Libero isn't a great passer, but Logan seems to have an unfairly poor reputation around here.
|
|
|
Post by SportyBucky on Dec 16, 2019 13:23:23 GMT -5
Eggleston doesn't hold up under heavier service pressure. She is not the answer to Texas' passing woes. I haven't isolated her SR at the end of sets or looked at it versus, for instance, topspin serves or better serving teams. I could do if anyone cares but the headline is she's a better passer than people think. I'm not sure if it's the association with White that tarnished her or because the Texas Libero isn't a great passer, but Logan seems to have an unfairly poor reputation around here. I haven't run the stats either, but I've watched every Texas match and she is far from consistent. The Big 12 doesn't have the best teams, nor the most challenging servers I've ever seen. I'd suggest passing stats from the Big 12 aren't as relevant as tourney and pre-season. You can have one decent passer in the back row, but you cannot have three. I would not say Eggleston's passing is better than decent.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Texas 2019
Dec 16, 2019 13:26:37 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 13:26:37 GMT -5
I haven't isolated her SR at the end of sets or looked at it versus, for instance, topspin serves or better serving teams. I could do if anyone cares but the headline is she's a better passer than people think. I'm not sure if it's the association with White that tarnished her or because the Texas Libero isn't a great passer, but Logan seems to have an unfairly poor reputation around here. I haven't run the stats either, but I've watched every Texas match and she is far from consistent. The Big 12 doesn't have the best teams, nor the most challenging servers I've ever seen. I'd suggest passing stats from the Big 12 aren't as relevant as tourney and pre-season. You can have one decent passer in the back row, but you cannot have three. I would not say Eggleston's passing is better than decent. You might be right. I'll pull her passing numbers versus top 25 opponents. You're quite correct in that you want your best players to step up in the biggest moments. She certainly did offensively, I'll look up her passing stats in a bit.
|
|
|
Post by SportyBucky on Dec 16, 2019 13:26:49 GMT -5
Is there a database that fans like me, lazy fans to be sure, can look up during the season and track the passing score?
I saw your very detailed explanation about the scoring on passes. And then of course, I saw the disagreement on the scoring flare up - which tells me this is subjective(?) and not crunched on the NCAA site?
Unfortunately not. Passing stats are either recorded in house (by an assistant or senior player) or by an analytics service like VM (these are the stats used by D1 programs, not NCAA.com). There are two kinds of people who "disagree" with them; those that don't understand them (a lot around here, it seems) or those that dislike anything which proves their preconceptions false. Bottom line is the data is the data. Facts don't care if people like them or not. By definition, if data is subjective, it's not something upon which you can rely as "fact." You need repeatability and reproducibility. That is, the ability to score the same serve receipt (in this instancE) the same way every time it happens. You also have to have multiple scorers be able to reproduce each other's results if multiple people score. Sorry, but you're flat our wrong asserting a school's passing scores are fact. Are they likely decent? Yes. Are they fact? No.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 13:31:13 GMT -5
Unfortunately not. Passing stats are either recorded in house (by an assistant or senior player) or by an analytics service like VM (these are the stats used by D1 programs, not NCAA.com). There are two kinds of people who "disagree" with them; those that don't understand them (a lot around here, it seems) or those that dislike anything which proves their preconceptions false. Bottom line is the data is the data. Facts don't care if people like them or not. By definition, if data is subjective, it's not something upon which you can rely as "fact." You need repeatability and reproducibility. That is, the ability to score the same serve receipt (in this instancE) the same way every time it happens. You also have to have multiple scorers be able to reproduce each other's results if multiple people score. Sorry, but you're flat our wrong asserting a school's passing scores are fact. Are they likely decent? Yes. Are they fact? No. Where did I say I was using the school's data? I'm on record as saying I don't trust that, even from MY school. I'm not using the school's numbers. VM has paid professionals with no connection to the schools that grade each pass. Ofc there's a margin for error but it's universal across all the data. Is it perfect? No. It the entire picture? No. Is it better than opinion and insinuation? Most definitely. Again, there's a reason why institutions pay tens of thousands of dollars annually for these services.
|
|
|
Post by davebrake38 on Dec 16, 2019 13:42:08 GMT -5
Wow, Sportybucky I wonder which group you fall in.
|
|
|
Post by SportyBucky on Dec 16, 2019 13:52:35 GMT -5
Wow, Sportybucky I wonder which group you fall in. don't get me wrong...I love Logan. Just need some passing upgrades to compliment her. I'm glad it appears we're getting some. I understand the benefit of having Logan hit out of the backrow...I'm sure TX ran the numbers to determine points lost and gained based on passing versus hitting. Just baffled TX can't figure this out with only two passing subs in the event something goes awry.
|
|
|
Post by hornfanaustin on Dec 16, 2019 14:02:28 GMT -5
I know y'all are disappointed. Same. It was just one of those days. Have to look forward. I just want to say, I love your facilities, love your campus, love your town, and even your perfect airport. Thanks for being great hosts. Thanks for visiting! I hope you got some BBQ while in town.
I'm always curious of visitor's view of Gregory. Several times a year, a booster club member will ask Jerritt if he wants a new gym. He always says no, it's great the way it is. Although as a former student, I remember playing racquetball down in the bowels of that building when it was 90% un-air conditioned. It was closed for 2 years from 95-97 for renovations (and adding lights and A/C) so it was not a dark, humid cave (and to think the volleyball team has always played and competed in that)
|
|
|
Post by trainermch on Dec 16, 2019 14:06:24 GMT -5
I know y'all are disappointed. Same. It was just one of those days. Have to look forward. I just want to say, I love your facilities, love your campus, love your town, and even your perfect airport. Thanks for being great hosts. Thanks for visiting! I hope you got some BBQ while in town.
I'm always curious of visitor's view of Gregory. Several times a year, a booster club member will ask Jerritt if he wants a new gym. He always says no, it's great the way it is. Although as a former student, I remember playing racquetball down in the bowels of that building when it was 90% un-air conditioned. It was closed for 2 years from 95-97 for renovations (and adding lights and A/C) so it was not a dark, humid cave (and to think the volleyball team has always played and competed in that)
Gator fans were drooling and coveting. Loved it! vbprisoner gave us some great advice and we waited in line at Franklin! (Everyone kept saying Franklin's but I got the Tshirt so I know better.) Definitely worth the wait! Felt sad (sort of) for those at the end of the line who were told their wait was futile, as they were running out of meat.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 15:26:46 GMT -5
I haven't isolated her SR at the end of sets or looked at it versus, for instance, topspin serves or better serving teams. I could do if anyone cares but the headline is she's a better passer than people think. I'm not sure if it's the association with White that tarnished her or because the Texas Libero isn't a great passer, but Logan seems to have an unfairly poor reputation around here. I haven't run the stats either, but I've watched every Texas match and she is far from consistent. The Big 12 doesn't have the best teams, nor the most challenging servers I've ever seen. I'd suggest passing stats from the Big 12 aren't as relevant as tourney and pre-season. You can have one decent passer in the back row, but you cannot have three. I would not say Eggleston's passing is better than decent. OK, so I just did a slightly deeper dive into Logan as a passer. So firstly, she finished the season passing 2.15 (it was 2.16 before the UL game). To put that in context, that's above Plummer, Lanier, Thompson, Loberg, Bajema. A long way above Pressley, Sun, Micaya White and on par with Ruddins, Hall, May. 2.15 is therefore elite for a 6-RO OH. Now the question was, does she struggle against tough servers. Well firstly, there's two things, in my experience that cause passing to break down. Either physical or mental. The physical occurs when passers meet a serve that challenges their technique, the mental occurs when passers are overwrought by the situation. To get the latter out of the way quickly, I narrowed Logan's passing stats to the end of sets (from 20+ points onwards) since these are the highest pressure situations: she actually passed better in crunch time. So she can handle the pressure - I suspected as much, given the way she fearlessly hits at the end of sets - but I wanted to check. The other issue is more interesting. To test her ability against higher quality opposition, I cherry picked the opponents. I used her non conference schedule (Hawaii, Northern Iowa, USC, Stanford, Minnesota, BYU) added the two Baylor matches and then the three tournament ones - I know Albany were a speedbump but it was still a tournament game. Her numbers did drop, though only to 2.07 which would still put her firmly in the second group of passers listed above. Then just to emphasise the point I took only the Louisville and UCSB games. I have seen every UCSB game this year and they serve consistently tough, Louisville served well in their game too. In those games Logan's passing grade fell below 2 to just 1.94. Now obviously I'm deliberately looking for weaknesses here and it's fair enough to say "well of course it's harder to pass good serves than bad ones". But I think Bucky is fair to note that technique wise Logan can continue to improve. On that subject, I broke down all of her serves over the year and she actually has a real problem with topspin serves. She only has a 32% good pass percentage against TS serves, whereas she's around 50% for all other kinds of serve. In the tournament you're likely to see more of those than in conference, so that's something she could strengthen... My biggest takeaway however, was that through all of the criteria, Logan was actually ahead of Sydney Petersen. I'm on record here as saying Petersen's strength has always been her SR (because her court coverage is poor) but it seems that she was actually outperformed by the team's biggest offensive weapon this season. It's too much to expect Iosia to come in and take her place but for a player that has trained with the collegiate national team, you'd really expect more from Petersen and she needs to improve (especially in the post season next year - everyone knows she was a disaster against UCSB passing a 1.4 but she only passed 2.03 against Louisville making her a net detriment to the team, rather than a benefit). Anyway, those are my thoughts - make of them what you will.
|
|
|
Post by SportyBucky on Dec 16, 2019 15:42:04 GMT -5
I haven't run the stats either, but I've watched every Texas match and she is far from consistent. The Big 12 doesn't have the best teams, nor the most challenging servers I've ever seen. I'd suggest passing stats from the Big 12 aren't as relevant as tourney and pre-season. You can have one decent passer in the back row, but you cannot have three. I would not say Eggleston's passing is better than decent. OK, so I just did a slightly deeper dive into Logan as a passer. So firstly, she finished the season passing 2.15 (it was 2.16 before the UL game). To put that in context, that's above Plummer, Lanier, Thompson, Loberg, Bajema. A long way above Pressley, Sun, Micaya White and on par with Ruddins, Hall, May. 2.15 is therefore elite for a 6-RO OH. Now the question was, does she struggle against tough servers. Well firstly, there's two things, in my experience that cause passing to break down. Either physical or mental. The physical occurs when passers meet a serve that challenges their technique, the mental occurs when passers are overwrought by the situation. To get the latter out of the way quickly, I narrowed Logan's passing stats to the end of sets (from 20+ points onwards) since these are the highest pressure situations: she actually passed better in crunch time. So she can handle the pressure - I suspected as much, given the way she fearlessly hits at the end of sets - but I wanted to check. The other issue is more interesting. To test her ability against higher quality opposition, I cherry picked the opponents. I used her non conference schedule (Hawaii, Northern Iowa, USC, Stanford, Minnesota, BYU) added the two Baylor matches and then the three tournament ones - I know Albany were a speedbump but it was still a tournament game. Her numbers did drop, though only to 2.07 which would still put her firmly in the second group of passers listed above. Then just to emphasise the point I took only the Louisville and UCSB games. I have seen every UCSB game this year and they serve consistently tough, Louisville served well in their game too. In those games Logan's passing grade fell below 2 to just 1.94. Now obviously I'm deliberately looking for weaknesses here and it's fair enough to say "well of course it's harder to pass good serves than bad ones". But I think Bucky is fair to note that technique wise Logan can continue to improve. On that subject, I broke down all of her serves over the year and she actually has a real problem with topspin serves. She only has a 32% good pass percentage against TS serves, whereas she's around 50% for all other kinds of serve. In the tournament you're likely to see more of those than in conference, so that's something she could strengthen... My biggest takeaway however, was that through all of the criteria, Logan was actually ahead of Sydney Petersen. I'm on record here as saying Petersen's strength has always been her SR (because her court coverage is poor) but it seems that she was actually outperformed by the team's biggest offensive weapon this season. It's too much to expect Iosia to come in and take her place but for a player that has trained with the collegiate national team, you'd really expect more from Petersen and she needs to improve (especially in the post season next year - everyone knows she was a disaster against UCSB passing a 1.4 but she only passed 2.03 against Louisville making her a net detriment to the team, rather than a benefit). Anyway, those are my thoughts - make of them what you will. Well...elite for a top OH. There are many at smaller programs who would likely be a DS at schools like Texas who no doubt pass better. Stats are subscription, I assume.
|
|
a0z
Junior High
Posts: 1
|
Post by a0z on Dec 16, 2019 15:44:07 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by sunsuphornsup on Dec 16, 2019 15:51:09 GMT -5
I haven't run the stats either, but I've watched every Texas match and she is far from consistent. The Big 12 doesn't have the best teams, nor the most challenging servers I've ever seen. I'd suggest passing stats from the Big 12 aren't as relevant as tourney and pre-season. You can have one decent passer in the back row, but you cannot have three. I would not say Eggleston's passing is better than decent. OK, so I just did a slightly deeper dive into Logan as a passer. So firstly, she finished the season passing 2.15 (it was 2.16 before the UL game). To put that in context, that's above Plummer, Lanier, Thompson, Loberg, Bajema. A long way above Pressley, Sun, Micaya White and on par with Ruddins, Hall, May. 2.15 is therefore elite for a 6-RO OH. Now the question was, does she struggle against tough servers. Well firstly, there's two things, in my experience that cause passing to break down. Either physical or mental. The physical occurs when passers meet a serve that challenges their technique, the mental occurs when passers are overwrought by the situation. To get the latter out of the way quickly, I narrowed Logan's passing stats to the end of sets (from 20+ points onwards) since these are the highest pressure situations: she actually passed better in crunch time. So she can handle the pressure - I suspected as much, given the way she fearlessly hits at the end of sets - but I wanted to check. The other issue is more interesting. To test her ability against higher quality opposition, I cherry picked the opponents. I used her non conference schedule (Hawaii, Northern Iowa, USC, Stanford, Minnesota, BYU) added the two Baylor matches and then the three tournament ones - I know Albany were a speedbump but it was still a tournament game. Her numbers did drop, though only to 2.07 which would still put her firmly in the second group of passers listed above. Then just to emphasise the point I took only the Louisville and UCSB games. I have seen every UCSB game this year and they serve consistently tough, Louisville served well in their game too. In those games Logan's passing grade fell below 2 to just 1.94. Now obviously I'm deliberately looking for weaknesses here and it's fair enough to say "well of course it's harder to pass good serves than bad ones". But I think Bucky is fair to note that technique wise Logan can continue to improve. On that subject, I broke down all of her serves over the year and she actually has a real problem with topspin serves. She only has a 32% good pass percentage against TS serves, whereas she's around 50% for all other kinds of serve. In the tournament you're likely to see more of those than in conference, so that's something she could strengthen... My biggest takeaway however, was that through all of the criteria, Logan was actually ahead of Sydney Petersen. I'm on record here as saying Petersen's strength has always been her SR (because her court coverage is poor) but it seems that she was actually outperformed by the team's biggest offensive weapon this season. It's too much to expect Iosia to come in and take her place but for a player that has trained with the collegiate national team, you'd really expect more from Petersen and she needs to improve (especially in the post season next year - everyone knows she was a disaster against UCSB passing a 1.4 but she only passed 2.03 against Louisville making her a net detriment to the team, rather than a benefit). Anyway, those are my thoughts - make of them what you will. I'm really enjoying the detailed analysis you've been providing about our players.
|
|
|
Post by stanfordvb on Dec 16, 2019 17:03:21 GMT -5
Capri Davis has committed to Texas.
|
|
|
Texas 2019
Dec 16, 2019 17:34:53 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by SportyBucky on Dec 16, 2019 17:34:53 GMT -5
Well...elite for a top OH. There are many at smaller programs who would likely be a DS at schools like Texas who no doubt pass better. Stats are subscription, I assume. Of course. The top passing liberos in the nation - Lake, Curry, Fleck, White etc all passed over 2.32 this year. So no, Logan isn't going to be dropping dimes on top of Gabriel from massive topspin serves. But Mary Lake can't spike a ball at 10'8 either! These things are always relative. Guess you misunderstood. I meant OHs like Kelli Bates...in car and other examples escape me. Think UCSB's of the ncaa. Smaller outsides usually at smaller programs. Only point is it's a balance between offense and passing / defense.
|
|