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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 13:21:43 GMT -5
No, I stated what was in the complaint. The sand VB coach was concerned about the unheard of player because they only had 6 spots and wanted to win a NC. Donna assured them it would not take up a schollie. They were further concerned it took up walk-on spots. Donna then contacted CW1 and CW1 called the parents to set up a story. Donna also was concerned about the prep schools who had complained and did not want the parents going to Marymount and raising a stink (that a $30k/yr prep school had called USC to argue AGAINST the admission of their DD) because that could blow the whole show given the relationship between marymount and admissions. This is ALL in the FBI filings to read. The only thing you have to glean out is what is freeform truthful communications and what are "FBI made up cover stories" given to CW1 to parrot to the parents/donna to get the parents/donna on tape admitting their role in the crimes. Does the judge have to follow guidelines regarding sentencing? yes, on the minimums. This is why the Van Jones/Trump reforms are so important on the minor drug crimes to give the judges more leeway to be judges. They also have consequences, like in Chicago, where to avoid the mand. mins. the prosecutors under charge because the prisons are over crowded. The CPD says that most of the gun violence is by the same people over and over again who are never sentenced to the mand. mins. So, IF Donna is charge appropriately and additional counts are added to her indictment she is going to prison. Why would they want her to plead to a lower crime? They do not need info from her and the goal is maximum publicity to ensure others do not do this type of crime. Giving her a sweet plea deal would be detrimental to the overall purpose of the FBI.
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Post by azvb on Mar 13, 2019 13:27:19 GMT -5
I’m sort of on the fence for punishing the students if they really didn’t know. If they earned a degree, why should it be taken from them?
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Post by trainermch on Mar 13, 2019 13:30:53 GMT -5
I’m sort of on the fence for punishing the students if they really didn’t know. If they earned a degree, why should it be taken from them? Their degree will have one of these *
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 13:39:27 GMT -5
I’m sort of on the fence for punishing the students if they really didn’t know. If they earned a degree, why should it be taken from them? 1. Many of them went to a psych to get diagnosed as "learning disabled" in order to get extra time on the ACT PLUS, this would benefit them all the way through college getting extra time for tests and assignments.... 2. Almost every school has you sign an application stating that you created your application and everything on it is true. 3. Many of these kids scored 50th percentile on the PSAT/SAT and then in the 80s-90s on the ACT after the "special test" 4. Several of them had to cover up with counselors that they were NOT student athletes. 5. Several of them supplied photos of them in sports gear posing as crew, water polo etc. 6. All of them got into schools that they had no chance of getting into while getting declined by easier schools. If the kids did not know, they are complete morons. I do not know why the FBI is protecting them. I have read the calls where the parents are worried their precious morons will find out they "did not do it themselves" etc. But, the facts are the kids know now and any of them that have honor will be sitting in admin right now trying to transfer any credits they do have to a JC. As background, I sat through several cases like this and number 2 is enough for almost everyone on the honor committee to vote you out. nypost.com/2005/10/22/degree-of-stupidity-wal-mart-heir-head-cheated-at-usc/
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Post by n00b on Mar 13, 2019 13:44:18 GMT -5
I’m sort of on the fence for punishing the students if they really didn’t know. If they earned a degree, why should it be taken from them? 1. Many of them went to a psych to get diagnosed as "learning disabled" in order to get extra time on the ACT PLUS, this would benefit them all the way through college getting extra time for tests and assignments.... 2. Almost every school has you sign an application stating that you created your application and everything on it is true. 3. Many of these kids scored 50th percentile on the PSAT/SAT and then in the 80s-90s on the ACT after the "special test" 4. Several of them had to cover up with counselors that they were NOT student athletes. 5. Several of them supplied photos of them in sports gear posing as crew, water polo etc. 6. All of them got into schools that they had no chance of getting into while getting declined by easier schools. If the kids did not know, they are complete morons. I do not know why the FBI is protecting them. I have read the calls where the parents are worried their precious morons will find out they "did not do it themselves" etc. But, the facts are the kids know now and any of them that have honor will be sitting in admin right now trying to transfer any credits they do have to a JC. As background, I sat through several cases like this and number 2 is enough for almost everyone on the honor committee to vote you out. nypost.com/2005/10/22/degree-of-stupidity-wal-mart-heir-head-cheated-at-usc/And lots of people get into schools just based on legacy. However, after admission, if the student goes to classes and earns the grades legitimately then in my opinion they've earned that degree. No reason to strip them of that. I'd be totally ok with arresting them and charging them with a felony of any of those things can be proven. But I still think they should keep their degree.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 13:57:40 GMT -5
1. Many of them went to a psych to get diagnosed as "learning disabled" in order to get extra time on the ACT PLUS, this would benefit them all the way through college getting extra time for tests and assignments.... 2. Almost every school has you sign an application stating that you created your application and everything on it is true. 3. Many of these kids scored 50th percentile on the PSAT/SAT and then in the 80s-90s on the ACT after the "special test" 4. Several of them had to cover up with counselors that they were NOT student athletes. 5. Several of them supplied photos of them in sports gear posing as crew, water polo etc. 6. All of them got into schools that they had no chance of getting into while getting declined by easier schools. If the kids did not know, they are complete morons. I do not know why the FBI is protecting them. I have read the calls where the parents are worried their precious morons will find out they "did not do it themselves" etc. But, the facts are the kids know now and any of them that have honor will be sitting in admin right now trying to transfer any credits they do have to a JC. As background, I sat through several cases like this and number 2 is enough for almost everyone on the honor committee to vote you out. nypost.com/2005/10/22/degree-of-stupidity-wal-mart-heir-head-cheated-at-usc/And lots of people get into schools just based on legacy. However, after admission, if the student goes to classes and earns the grades legitimately then, in my opinion, they've earned that degree. No reason to strip them of that. I'd be totally ok with arresting them and charging them with a felony of any of those things can be proven. But I still think they should keep their degree. That is the gray area to me. I understand your point and somewhat agree -- they 'earned' the degree by performing. But, if I was on the committee I would vote against them to preserve the integrity of the institution. They entered fraudulently. They cheated. Honor is part of the degree and the privilege it bestows. The currently enrolled ones, no gray, immediate removal. But since this started nine years ago, there could be 100s of graduates. Some are named in the complaint. Everyone will have an opinion on that one. For me, it is like the case of the man that could not get into med school. Then he pretends to be AA and gets admitted. If he completes the work and graduates should he become an MD when it is discovered what he did? These are great debates. I fall on the NO side. I fully admit that I went to a college I was unqualified for but there were rules that allowed for people like me. Others deserved to be there more than I, but the rules were followed and the school set the rules for their own reason$. Legacies are similar to that situation, the school sets the rules for its own reason$.
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Post by azvb on Mar 13, 2019 13:59:36 GMT -5
IF THEY DIDNT KNOW is the kicker. But yes, seems like they had to know something. Or maybe their whole life this kind of stuff was done-best pre school, elementary, private high school.
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Post by Wolfgang on Mar 13, 2019 14:00:21 GMT -5
The kids knew. Give me a break.
As a high schooler, I remember being very aware of a lot of things, including complicated cheating schemes going on around the campus, the power of wealth, and very complex social dynamics of peers, among other things. We also talked about schemes involving college admission and how some kids had professionals write the college admission essays for them. Kids are not ignorant of fraud schemes. In fact, high schoolers cut their teeth in fraud and other forms of criminal conspiracy during high school!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 14:43:12 GMT -5
I read this and actually felt bad for the coach. Background, Girl was already on the "wait list" at WF and likely would have received admission. There was not a ton of information but from what I could glean it seems that the coach likely knew this was not kosher but I doubt he understood it was a crime. I read it like he thought it was how things worked. $50k went to the school (donations happen all the time to help kids get in) and the $50k that went to his camps would have been reported as income with his camp. While it is not right, his punishment will outweigh his "crime" (if it is only one instance). He will likely have to plead, might get some time and has killed his career. He would have paid income tax on the camp money but since the govt will want big punishment for coaches, they will likely pile on charges like mail fraud/wire fraud and money laundering to make the sentence larger. This case I felt the worst about and Donna's sins were so glaring I kind of ignored it. The worst part is the Yale coach who received a direct $400,000 bribe and did not pay taxes on it, is a cooperating witness (CW3) so he will get less punishment than Ferguson. How could he possibly think this "was how things worked"? C'mon. I'd like to think the best of people, but I don't buy that. Because he's at a school with basketball and football and coaches taking money for apparel and seeing what goes on with AAU basketball. It is easy to see the logic that what's $50,000 when there are coaches pocketing much more out there and nothing's being done. It's still wrong though.
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Post by pepperbrooks on Mar 13, 2019 14:56:37 GMT -5
The kids knew. Give me a break. As a high schooler, I remember being very aware of a lot of things, including complicated cheating schemes going on around the campus, the power of wealth, and very complex social dynamics of peers, among other things. We also talked about schemes involving college admission and how some kids had professionals write the college admission essays for them. Kids are not ignorant of fraud schemes. In fact, high schoolers cut their teeth in fraud and other forms of criminal conspiracy during high school! Not sure all the kids knew. The faux pole vaulter had no idea his parents had done it.
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Post by chancelucky on Mar 13, 2019 14:56:49 GMT -5
I don't think a parent who paid 20K to do this is the sort of parent who's going to implicate the same kid in a conspiracy to commit fraud.
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Post by Wolfgang on Mar 13, 2019 15:06:27 GMT -5
If a kid had a legitimate 1300+ on SATs, had 3.5+ GPA (in hard core courses), participated in legitimate club activities, received honors or awards on many activities, and got into one of the elite schools, then YEAH, I'd agree that the kid has a legitimate argument that he didn't know about his parents' fraud scheme.
But if the kid had mediocre SATS, had 2.0-3.0 GPA (some in loser courses), barely participated in club activities, received little to no honors in anything, AND still got into one of the elite schools, then I'd say that kid had to suspect some fraud or parental influence was involved.
Kids are not dumb. I do NOT buy the Ignorance defense.
The kid does NOT have to rely on what her parents told her. She can figure things out for herself that something was not on the up-and-up.
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Post by volleyguy on Mar 13, 2019 15:07:00 GMT -5
1. Many of them went to a psych to get diagnosed as "learning disabled" in order to get extra time on the ACT PLUS, this would benefit them all the way through college getting extra time for tests and assignments.... 2. Almost every school has you sign an application stating that you created your application and everything on it is true. 3. Many of these kids scored 50th percentile on the PSAT/SAT and then in the 80s-90s on the ACT after the "special test" 4. Several of them had to cover up with counselors that they were NOT student athletes. 5. Several of them supplied photos of them in sports gear posing as crew, water polo etc. 6. All of them got into schools that they had no chance of getting into while getting declined by easier schools. If the kids did not know, they are complete morons. I do not know why the FBI is protecting them. I have read the calls where the parents are worried their precious morons will find out they "did not do it themselves" etc. But, the facts are the kids know now and any of them that have honor will be sitting in admin right now trying to transfer any credits they do have to a JC. As background, I sat through several cases like this and number 2 is enough for almost everyone on the honor committee to vote you out. nypost.com/2005/10/22/degree-of-stupidity-wal-mart-heir-head-cheated-at-usc/And lots of people get into schools just based on legacy. However, after admission, if the student goes to classes and earns the grades legitimately then in my opinion they've earned that degree. No reason to strip them of that. I'd be totally ok with arresting them and charging them with a felony of any of those things can be proven. But I still think they should keep their degree. If you buy a forged lottery ticket--whether you knew it was forged or not--you wouldn't be able to collect the money. I'm sympathetic to the students, and not. These students were admitted on one or more falsehoods. It doesn't seem fair or honest that they should benefit with a college degree.
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Post by pepperbrooks on Mar 13, 2019 15:09:22 GMT -5
Lori Loughlin's kid must have had just terrible grades for her two rich and famous parents to feel like they had to bribe her way into USC.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 15:17:31 GMT -5
Lori Loughlin's kid must have had just terrible grades for her two rich and famous parents to feel like they had to bribe her way into USC. She also has a very viable youtube channel with major sponsors. You would think schools would want that kind of entrepreneurship? But, then you have to also wonder why a very small elite private school would actually go to the effort of calling USC admin to ask WTF on her admission. She must not be a stellar person/student/addition to a community. Watched a couple of her videos and she comes across as entitled and obtuse. Since she was only going to USC for game day and the parties, when she gets kicked out, she still will be able to attend what she values about SC.
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