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Post by Phaedrus on Mar 15, 2019 19:22:34 GMT -5
Definition of philanthropy 1 : goodwill to fellow members of the human race especially : active effort to promote human welfare 2a : an act or gift done or made for humanitarian purposes b : an organization distributing or supported by funds set aside for humanitarian purposes Definition of altruism 1 : unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others charitable acts motivated purely by altruism 2 : behavior by an animal that is not beneficial to or may be harmful to itself but that benefits others of its species I don't see quid pro quo in either definition philanthropy /fɪˈlanθrəpi/Submit noun the desire to promote the welfare of others, expressed especially by the generous donation of money to good causes. "he acquired a considerable fortune and was noted for his philanthropy" NORTH AMERICAN a philanthropic institution; a charity. plural noun: philanthropies "a philanthropy was incorporated to help oldsters obtain benefits like pension rights" Philanthropy in America, particularly in higher education, has always had an element of quid pro quo. Harvard was founded as a training school for the clergy, and was renamed Harvard College after a clergyman, John Harvard who was educated at Cambridge, donated a sum of money and his library of books. It's simply incorrect to say that such philanthropy is given freely. There is usually always an element of recognition or specific purpose. North American version, are you claiming an American exception?
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Post by mikegarrison on Mar 15, 2019 20:29:51 GMT -5
I think this situation opens up a larger debate on college and college admissions. I have friends who have paid 'professionals' to fill out their applications and write their application essays for them. I see this as getting an unfair advantage over those who actually put in the work and do it the right way. Gavin Newsome made an interesting point this morning: how is this different from giving the school $20 million to build a building named after yourself so that your ne'er do well offsprings can get into UPenn or Harvard? It isn't the mechanism that is f'ed up, it is the initial assumption that buying your way into these supposedly paragons of virtue operates their whorehouses. It *is* the mechanism that is f'ed up. If a school accepts $20 million to build a new dorm or hall or gym or whatever, and during the negotiations the school agrees that you can name up to five students who will automatically be admitted (or whatever the agreement is), then that's a straightforward legal agreement. That's not what this case is about. This case is about bribery, transfer of money either in secret or for reasons that are deceptive (like paying $50k to a volleyball camp as a money laundering scheme to bribe the coach that runs that camp). Bribery is a crime. Money laundering is a crime. These people were either school employees who were violating their school policies for money or else they were people who were paying them that money. If I walk into a jewelry store and buy a $40,000 ring, that's not a crime. But if I walk into a jewelry store and pay the clerk $5000 to "lose" the ring into my pocket, that is a crime. This is the same distinction between "giving the school $20 million to build a building named after yourself so that your ne'er do well offsprings can get into UPenn or Harvard" versus bribing the admissions officer to falsely claim they were recruited athletes.
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Post by ironhammer on Mar 15, 2019 20:30:55 GMT -5
The US...we wouldn't call it a land of extremes, we like to say it's a land of opportunity if you are prepared to seize your chances and work hard for it. That's the American dream. But I wonder how true is that still today? The American dream is as true as ever! Depend on who you are also...
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Post by mikegarrison on Mar 15, 2019 20:36:36 GMT -5
Ok, now I’m curious. Ms “white chick”, I’d like to know your opinion about the cheat in the Oval Office. You know, cadet bone spurs, Trump U, Penn “donations” for kids, nepotism in security clearance, not to talk of Russia. Does he offend you or nah? Let's keep the politics out of this. You "liked" the post when the politics was the side you favored, but now that someone brings up the other side you say "let's keep the politics out of it."
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Post by ironhammer on Mar 15, 2019 20:38:33 GMT -5
Which I never said in my post. I never justified illegal or criminal actions. I am saying beware of those with a "holier-than-thou" attitude because human nature is complex and ugly realities can always hide behind a clean face. Life is never so simple. If you really are in position to make millions or get advantages illegally...but won't get caught, will you do it? It's easy to say "no", but the real test comes when you really are presented with that opportunity. What will you really do? Will you ethics hold up? Will your principles? To this current situation, in my discussions with people in general and reading posters on this VT site, it would be my impression that their IS legitimate anger and frustration NOT based on the " holier than thou" attitude much at all. Perhaps I'm a naive optimist but I still believe in the goodness of people. Of course one would be upset and pissed if someone resort to illegal dirty tricks to get a one up on others rather than relying on their own merits. But the thing is, should they be shocked by this? I don't want to sound like a old cynical guy, but having seen stuff that goes on "behind-the-scenes", I'm not surprised. My philosophy is simple. Be honest and hold fast to doing what is right. Don't wish ill upon others. Don't take advantage of others for your personal gain at the expense of them. But know that there are people out there who have those undesirable traits and may target you. Be prepared to respond accordingly if they do.
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Post by mikegarrison on Mar 15, 2019 20:38:34 GMT -5
Ok, now I’m curious. Ms “white chick”, I’d like to know your opinion about the cheat in the Oval Office. You know, cadet bone spurs, Trump U, Penn “donations” for kids, nepotism in security clearance, not to talk of Russia. Does he offend you or nah? No politics. This thread is a great discussion of college admissions and by extension college athletics. We don’t talk politics here. If you get this thread shut down, I will be forced to do actual work. If I have to do actual work, I will jump out of my basement window. Come on. trainermch brought up the politics in the first place. Where was your objection then?
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Post by trainermch on Mar 15, 2019 20:56:46 GMT -5
No politics. This thread is a great discussion of college admissions and by extension college athletics. We don’t talk politics here. If you get this thread shut down, I will be forced to do actual work. If I have to do actual work, I will jump out of my basement window. Come on. trainermch brought up the politics in the first place. Where was your objection then? Heeeeey, I agreed and stopped. I decided not to do an apology post because to much had already been posted. And no I actually DID NOT. The topic was lying about who or what you are to advance your personal position, on topic with the thread. I wasn't discussing politics. The responder, however, did. Tag her... I did send them a very nice pm, which so far she has ignored. Oh well. Life goes on. Thanks for the opportunity for me to make nice nice.
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Post by trainermch on Mar 15, 2019 20:59:54 GMT -5
Donna from USC? And apparently, you can never have too much. This man hating woman did take out 2 coach's who won multiple National Championships for USC...................Jovan Vacic and Mick Haley. She took out Haley. Vacic made a personal greedy choice to go along with the scheme. Jovan Vacic took Jovan Vacic out.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 21:28:47 GMT -5
No politics. This thread is a great discussion of college admissions and by extension college athletics. We don’t talk politics here. If you get this thread shut down, I will be forced to do actual work. If I have to do actual work, I will jump out of my basement window. Come on. trainermch brought up the politics in the first place. Where was your objection then? There was something accusatory or baiting about the way it was presented as a response to trainermch. I was too late for it. Lazy thread watching was all it was. I'll do better next time I remind people about politics on the board. Just trying to help the mods out. Not purposely being a jerk to new posters, although I can if that's a request.
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Post by trainermch on Mar 15, 2019 21:32:24 GMT -5
Come on. trainermch brought up the politics in the first place. Where was your objection then? There was something accusatory or baiting about the way it was presented as a response to trainermch . I was too late for it. Lazy thread watching was all it was. I'll do better next time I remind people about politics on the board. Just trying to help the mods out. Not purposely being a jerk to new posters, although I can if that's a request. Again, I did not bring up politics. But if I ever post anything against the rules, MOD or not, I appreciate a reminder. Discussion and debate can and should remain civil.
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Post by trainermch on Mar 15, 2019 21:33:52 GMT -5
Now back to Zion and Luke.
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Post by volleylearner on Mar 15, 2019 22:06:54 GMT -5
Philanthropy in America, particularly in higher education, has always had an element of quid pro quo. Harvard was founded as a training school for the clergy, and was renamed Harvard College after a clergyman, John Harvard who was educated at Cambridge, donated a sum of money and his library of books. It's simply incorrect to say that such philanthropy is given freely. There is usually always an element of recognition or specific purpose. Currently in the U.S. a gift to a 501(c)(3) is only tax-deductible if the giver does not personally benefit from it. Of course one can target a gift, e.g., give money for a specific building or research on a specific disease, and certainly if someone wants to pay money to an organization for a service (and not try to deduct it) then that's fine. But making a donation to get something in return is a no-no. The non-profits and donors that I know are very careful not to cross that line.
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Post by vollypopaz on Mar 15, 2019 22:27:12 GMT -5
To this current situation, in my discussions with people in general and reading posters on this VT site, it would be my impression that their IS legitimate anger and frustration NOT based on the " holier than thou" attitude much at all. Perhaps I'm a naive optimist but I still believe in the goodness of people. Of course one would be upset and pissed if someone resort to illegal dirty tricks to get a one up on others rather than relying on their own merits. But the thing is, should they be shocked by this? I don't want to sound like a old cynical guy, but having seen stuff that goes on "behind-the-scenes", I'm not surprised. My philosophy is simple. Be honest and hold fast to doing what is right. Don't wish ill upon others. Don't take advantage of others for your personal gain at the expense of them. But know that there are people out there who have those undesirable traits and may target you. Be prepared to respond accordingly if they do. Well said Hammer. Matches my personal philosophy precisely. Has served me well so far. I wish more people thought this way...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 22:39:34 GMT -5
Where would schools be? Better off. Does Harvard need more money since it has more in hand than most African nations? A tenth of Yale's money could fund 50 small private schools elsewhere and leave Yale just as it is right now. A friend always says that July 4th, 1776 happens the same whether youre at a juco, state school or the Ivy League. So higher ed would be just fine. Nonsense. Africa would be much better off with a few Harvards in its midst. It would also be better off with with a few jucos, state schools and July 4th, 1776. But you're making my point. I'm saying they sit on more money than African countries have in their possession as a nation. Why not share that or set up extension campuses to bring quality education to places where that is lacking? It is better to do something with that endowment than have it sit and grow.
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Post by bucky415 on Mar 15, 2019 23:04:39 GMT -5
I think this is the college admissions industrial complex run amok. These schools have prestige, in terms of rankings, but I am not sure how much you objectively gain from being an undergrad at them. Teaching assistants do a lot of the actual teaching at them, and I have to say that I didn't even know what they did until I became one in grad school. At a solidly regarded but not top tier rated teaching school, I was taught by professors almost exclusively. That was not something about which I had any idea as a high school student looking at schools, but it is actually a big deal.
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