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Apr 11, 2019 10:46:31 GMT -5
Post by stanfordvb on Apr 11, 2019 10:46:31 GMT -5
Wondering, seriously, I am, if a white male could identify as a black woman and submit an application to dental school as such. My god. Does your ignorance know no bounds? Have you ever made any effort to educate yourself at all? Or, is spouting off incredibly hurtful rhetoric while simultaneously dehumanizing and delegitimizing your fellow neighbor just a hobby? I truly don't understand how people on this site like you. Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Let’s not dive into your history in the volleyball world....
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Apr 11, 2019 11:07:08 GMT -5
Post by n00b on Apr 11, 2019 11:07:08 GMT -5
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Apr 11, 2019 12:04:46 GMT -5
808empath likes this
Post by staticb on Apr 11, 2019 12:04:46 GMT -5
The flip side of that is, of course, that it is VERY VERY VERY RARE that a professional male athlete switches gender. Most transgender people are not professional athletes. The Olympics have allowed trans athletes in for a long time now and there's been only a handful and like one medal? Ditto for the NCAA/College Scholarships, etc. My only personal anecdotes come from our lgbt league where I know of two people who have transitioned. Both players were never the same (player wise) after their transition. Slower, less jumpy, didn't hit as hard, etc. (Even a little bit awkward when they were both first coming back)
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Apr 11, 2019 12:40:04 GMT -5
bigfan likes this
Post by azvb on Apr 11, 2019 12:40:04 GMT -5
I’m glad she got to play. Not surprised her teammates didn’t know. There’s a show on TV about a transgender girl. Jett I think is her name. She started her transition pretty young, before puberty. She’s 16 or so now, and really pretty. And yet you somehow seem rather worried that this is going to be a huge issue.... How would I/we/you react if this issue started impacting you or a loved one personally? That’s an opportunity to see how I/we/you REALLY feel about issues such as this. Suddenly, it’s not so black and white. Example, I saw a headline (when we still had the newspaper delivered every day) that read “Drunk mom driving with kids charged with child abuse”. I was so angry. Thought “I hope she this woman gets major jail time”, etc. Then I read the first sentence of the article. The driver was my cousin. Suddenly my anger turned to compassion, concern because I knew her story. jcvball22, you seemed to have coached in a perfect situation. Curious to know if you would feel differently if your player WAS dominating. I don’t mean Kathryn Plummer dominating, I mean physically imposing, hit over any block, jump served 10 aces a game dominating. What if she looked like a guy. If you had been on the other side of the net. Do you think you would feel differently? If I’m watching a match like this as a casual observer, I’m thinking, “that sucks” for the other team. If I’m watching the match and my daughter is on the other team, I’m furious. If this legislation passes, if I’m reading it correctly, transgenders only have to identify as females. Nothing else is needed to allow them to compete. Testosterone levels don’t matter. I know it will be a rare occurance. But as the “gender is fluid” attitude becomes a more accepted way to parent, this becomes less rare. I’ll most likely be dead before any of this impacts me personally. I do wonder where does it end? If gender can be identified, why can’t race or age? Just to be clear, I’m not including intersex athletes, those born with both genitals. Whole different situation. Last post for me in this thread. Would be interesting to revisit this thread in 10-15 years to see if/how this issue has changed the sport! Volleytalk will still be around, right.
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Apr 11, 2019 12:54:15 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Fight On! on Apr 11, 2019 12:54:15 GMT -5
] Just to be clear, I’m not including intersex athletes, those born with both genitals. Whole different situation. Is it really a whole different situation? There are only two recognized genders. Yet there are many genetic variations beyond 46XX and 46XY. Where do they compete?
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Apr 11, 2019 13:13:10 GMT -5
Post by Wolfgang on Apr 11, 2019 13:13:10 GMT -5
And yet you somehow seem rather worried that this is going to be a huge issue.... ... I saw a headline (when we still had the newspaper delivered every day) that read “Drunk mom driving with kids charged with child abuse”. I was so angry. Thought “I hope she this woman gets major jail time”, etc. Then I read the first sentence of the article. The driver was my cousin. Suddenly my anger turned to compassion, concern because I knew her story. ... Did not see that coming.
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Apr 11, 2019 13:18:50 GMT -5
Post by nothingbutcorn on Apr 11, 2019 13:18:50 GMT -5
I think 12 years old is when you start to see a physical changed between girls, and boys. I went to a small school and the girls would have their basketball season before the boys. Anyway the boys would play the girls at least once before their season would start. When they were in 5th grade it would be pretty close but by the time 6th grade rolled around the boys won easily. Those same girls by the time they where seniors won a State championship for the school. As for the boys when they were seniors...well their season was over pretty quickly.
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Apr 11, 2019 13:21:32 GMT -5
bigfan likes this
Post by jcvball22 on Apr 11, 2019 13:21:32 GMT -5
And yet you somehow seem rather worried that this is going to be a huge issue.... How would I/we/you react if this issue started impacting you or a loved one personally? That’s an opportunity to see how I/we/you REALLY feel about issues such as this. Suddenly, it’s not so black and white. Example, I saw a headline (when we still had the newspaper delivered every day) that read “Drunk mom driving with kids charged with child abuse”. I was so angry. Thought “I hope she this woman gets major jail time”, etc. Then I read the first sentence of the article. The driver was my cousin. Suddenly my anger turned to compassion, concern because I knew her story. jcvball22, you seemed to have coached in a perfect situation. Curious to know if you would feel differently if your player WAS dominating. I don’t mean Kathryn Plummer dominating, I mean physically imposing, hit over any block, jump served 10 aces a game dominating. What if she looked like a guy. If you had been on the other side of the net. Do you think you would feel differently? If I’m watching a match like this as a casual observer, I’m thinking, “that sucks” for the other team. If I’m watching the match and my daughter is on the other team, I’m furious. If this legislation passes, if I’m reading it correctly, transgenders only have to identify as females. Nothing else is needed to allow them to compete. Testosterone levels don’t matter. I know it will be a rare occurance. But as the “gender is fluid” attitude becomes a more accepted way to parent, this becomes less rare. I’ll most likely be dead before any of this impacts me personally. I do wonder where does it end? If gender can be identified, why can’t race or age? Just to be clear, I’m not including intersex athletes, those born with both genitals. Whole different situation. Last post for me in this thread. Would be interesting to revisit this thread in 10-15 years to see if/how this issue has changed the sport! Volleytalk will still be around, right. I'd feel the same way I feel anytime we lose to someone, dominated or not: I guess we need to improve. Sports are inherently unfair. Most of the time, one team is better, if not significantly better, than a team they are playing. One player is unlikely to make such a huge impact in a team sport that is so interconnected as volleyball. Other people still need to be involved. A slight advantage? Sure. Maybe, but there are a lot of ways to gain an advantage. My question is: unless the athlete disclosed that they were transgender, how would you know? Are you planning to start assuming anyone who is considerably better than the people they play against are transgender? Is simply "looking like a guy" grounds for questioning? I have posted already in this thread the USAV guidelines for gender identity (you'll notice, there is a testosterone level requirement in there, even for the juniors level). So your legislation quip is a non sequitur. And to your final point: I would be willing to bet BIG that the impact on our sport 10-15 years down the line will be about the same as now: negligible to the point of being insignificant.
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 11, 2019 14:09:00 GMT -5
jcvball22, you seemed to have coached in a perfect situation. Curious to know if you would feel differently if your player WAS dominating. I don’t mean Kathryn Plummer dominating, I mean physically imposing, hit over any block, jump served 10 aces a game dominating. What if she looked like a guy. What if she was blue, came from another planet, had horns, and actually flew? If you are going to stack up your "what if" as high as you did, why not just take it to the next level?
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Apr 11, 2019 14:11:56 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Hawk Attack on Apr 11, 2019 14:11:56 GMT -5
I think 12 years old is when you start to see a physical changed between girls, and boys. I went to a small school and the girls would have their basketball season before the boys. Anyway the boys would play the girls at least once before their season would start. When they were in 5th grade it would be pretty close but by the time 6th grade rolled around the boys won easily. Sounds like the girls needed better coaching.
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Apr 11, 2019 14:19:26 GMT -5
Post by holidayhusker on Apr 11, 2019 14:19:26 GMT -5
When Tiffany was playing as male in the men's league she was just average. I think he/she was playing in Belgium where the level is very low. He/she would not have been good enough to find a team in the Brazil men's superliga. But now as a female Tiffany can be one of the best players in the women's Superliga. Tiffany is not good as Egonu Zhu or Boskovic because she was just a below average male player. But her past as a male helps her to be on the same level as other average female players. Let's say if a good male player like Leon or Zaytsev becomes a transgender... They would be killing everyone in the women's game. Egonu and Zhu would look like a nobody next to her/him. The flip side of that is, of course, that it is VERY VERY VERY RARE that a professional male athlete switches gender. Most transgender people are not professional athletes. what is your point?
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Apr 11, 2019 14:22:11 GMT -5
reader likes this
Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 14:22:11 GMT -5
This is not really an issue. No one seems to be able to cite any instances at all. And it is just creating people to polarize. Sorry I asked. IMO, this was a most ill-conceived, very poorly thought-out thread: I felt so The Moment I saw the title, before even reading any of the posts. What.Did.You.Expect.On.VT?
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Apr 11, 2019 15:06:15 GMT -5
Post by holidayhusker on Apr 11, 2019 15:06:15 GMT -5
This is not really an issue. No one seems to be able to cite any instances at all. And it is just creating people to polarize. Sorry I asked. IMO, this was a most ill-conceived, very poorly thought-out thread: I felt so The Moment I saw the title, before even reading any of the posts. What.Did.You.Expect.On.VT? oh boy..more of the old" those that don't agree with us are so clueless and uninformed," mentality.
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Apr 11, 2019 15:13:19 GMT -5
via mobile
bigfan likes this
Post by Fight On! on Apr 11, 2019 15:13:19 GMT -5
IMO, this was a most ill-conceived, very poorly thought-out thread: I felt so The Moment I saw the title, before even reading any of the posts. What.Did.You.Expect.On.VT? oh boy..more of the old" those that don't agree with us are so clueless and uninformed," mentality. Actually dirtrider is the poster who insisted on calling transwomen “eunuchs” last time. He’s more in your camp than mine.
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Apr 11, 2019 15:20:41 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Hawk Attack on Apr 11, 2019 15:20:41 GMT -5
oh boy..more of the old" those that don't agree with us are so clueless and uninformed," mentality. Actually dirtrider is the poster who insisted on calling transwomen “eunuchs” last time. He’s more in your camp than mine. That was durtpile not dirtrider... they feel the same I know.
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