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Post by azvb on Mar 17, 2020 11:53:33 GMT -5
I think the ratio of positive to negative threads on this site (and others), the falling rate of participation at their tournaments, the cancellation of events at their facility, these are all good metrics for how publicity is going for SPVB. Parents yelling at kids is a strawman and shouldn't distract from the basic idea that the tide has turned and RB is slowly being driven from the sport. I think the ratio you are speaking of on this thread has more to do with the volume of posting done by the same handful of people. I think the falling rate of participation at their tournaments has more to do with some club owners taking advantage of the current "Me Too" hysteria to line their pockets and get tournaments moved to their facilities, rather than some new found morality - they've all known about the accusations for decades and went to SPVB tournaments anyway. I think very few people who are posting on this thread or anyone behind the lawsuit are interested in protecting youth. If you think that he is currently a threat to any players at his club or any other club, I don't think you are a serious person. He has been under a microscope for decades without even a whisper of any accusations. I would be more concerned about the coaches whose names you don't know. There is a lot of bad stuff going on right now that you haven't heard of yet, but no one is offering a solution to uncovering it or protecting those players. I think what will eventually drive him from the sport is his personal decision to retire, not anything else. So, if someone commits multiple (or even one, for that matter) statutory rapes 20 years ago, but hasn’t done it since, he should be forgiven? This wasn’t two 16 year olds caught up in the moment. It was grown man abusing his authority as a coach, and consciously grooming his victims. I will agree with you there are coaches out there still doing this and we need to be more diligent in exposing them, rather than looking the other way because they’re a great coach. It all starts with parents teaching their kids AT A VERY YOUNG AGE the parts of your body that should never be touched or shown to ANYONE without a parent present. And that they can and must come to them, without fear, when such action is even hinted at by ANYONE.
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Post by reader on Mar 17, 2020 11:55:25 GMT -5
My post was directed at the "what bad publicity?" nonsense one entry earlier. It is a specific refutation of the specious assertions that everything is fine and everyone else is crazy. I'm not into spectacle or histrionics, just simple, clear light on the topic: RB is a sexual predator who needs to go.
Please don't make that more or less than it is, and don't dilute it with What Abouts that everyone agrees with. If you want to protect kids today you start making it easier to identify and prosecute the guilty. Letting anyone go casts the wrong light on the issue and makes it look like less of a problem than everyone agrees it should be. He hasn't bothered anyone in thirty years, and that's good enough? How about twenty, or seventeen, or maybe eight, or four? If you know then you act, and if you don't believe that then you're not a serious person.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2020 11:56:00 GMT -5
I think the fact that you used the phrase 'Me Too hysteria' in an unironic fashion after the revolting creature that triggered that movement just got 23 years in prison, strongly indicates don't don't give a flying F about protecting anyone. It's funny that you think it's everyone else that's got a warped perspective though. I don't really get how you came to the conclusion I don't care about protecting anyone. Nothing could be further from the truth. That's all I ever talk about on these threads. No one seems to want to engage in that conversation though. Instead, these threads have turned into a gathering place for vigilantes. OP should rename the thread to more accurately reflect what it is. Any suggestions for thread name? "Rick Butler banned for life but stills coaches. why? lets discuss?" Rules and laws are there to protect. Rick was RULED ineligible to coach. He should not be coaching. You indicated that governing bodies banned him from their events but cannot ban him from coaching in his own building. That is actually not 100% true given the *SafeSport Code of Conduct 4.15.19 section titled aiding and abetting prohibits ANY coach from allowing any banned coach from coaching. They are also not to even have ownership interest in club associated with USAV. The intent of all of this seems to be to protect youth from allowing predators access to them, even as owners of a gym/club. Do you think banned individuals should easy have access to potential victims? JVA indicates they endorse SafeSport guidelines and actually will accept SafeSport certificate in lieu of NSCI background check they conduct. I have reached out to them to ask their position on SafeSport Aiding and Abetting policy and will share response when received. page 15 for what I am referring to - uscenterforsafesport.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/2019-SafeSport-Code-04.15.19-Hyperlinked.pdf
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2020 11:59:29 GMT -5
I stand by the language I used. When men are being warned not to invite women to go to lunch with them at work and Supreme Court Justice nominees are put through what Kavanaugh was put through, I personally call it hysteria. I don't really want to have an argument with you about those words since they are irrelevant and deflect from my point. Since you can't get beyond my wording and are triggered to the point of name calling and vulgar language in both of your responses, I've edited my post so you can understand my post more easily without getting hung up on that. Ah yes, you're right. It's really gotten out of hand, this reduction in tolerance of sexual assault. Don't you miss the good old days where women kept their mouths shut? And we definitely need to protect the victims in these cases; the men! Poor, helpless men like Butler... and especially the Supreme Court Justices. Definitely a good idea to edit that first post though, because it was really only that one phrase that made you sound utterly out of touch with a decent & civilized society...not the entire tone of everything you've written on this subject. Good job.
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Post by updawg on Mar 17, 2020 13:47:57 GMT -5
My post was directed at the "what bad publicity?" nonsense one entry earlier. It is a specific refutation of the specious assertions that everything is fine and everyone else is crazy. I'm not into spectacle or histrionics, just simple, clear light on the topic: RB is a sexual predator who needs to go. Please don't make that more or less than it is, and don't dilute it with What Abouts that everyone agrees with. If you want to protect kids today you start making it easier to identify and prosecute the guilty. Letting anyone go casts the wrong light on the issue and makes it look like less of a problem than everyone agrees it should be. He hasn't bothered anyone in thirty years, and that's good enough? How about twenty, or seventeen, or maybe eight, or four? If you know then you act, and if you don't believe that then you're not a serious person. I didn't see the previous post you were referencing. It was on the previous page of the thread and you didn't quote it so I didn't understand the context of your post. Yes, I agree, they've absolutely had bad publicity. Point I was making is that to me, in MY personal opinion, there appears to be more interest in profiting from his bad publicity than there is in protecting youth. Whatever was done 30 years ago (or however many years ago) seems to have run its course legally as well as through the governing bodies of the sport.
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Post by deohge on Mar 17, 2020 14:41:03 GMT -5
I think the ratio of positive to negative threads on this site (and others), the falling rate of participation at their tournaments, the cancellation of events at their facility, these are all good metrics for how publicity is going for SPVB. Parents yelling at kids is a strawman and shouldn't distract from the basic idea that the tide has turned and RB is slowly being driven from the sport. I think the ratio you are speaking of on this thread has more to do with the volume of posting done by the same handful of people. I think the falling rate of participation at their tournaments has more to do with some club owners taking advantage of the situation to line their pockets and get tournaments moved to their facilities, rather than some new found morality - they've all known about the accusations for decades and went to SPVB tournaments anyway. I think very few people who are posting on this thread or anyone behind the lawsuit are interested in protecting youth. If you think that he is currently a threat to any players at his club or any other club, I don't think you are a serious person. He has been under a microscope for decades without even a whisper of any accusations. I would be more concerned about the coaches whose names you don't know. There is a lot of bad stuff going on right now that you haven't heard of yet, but no one is offering a solution to uncovering it or protecting those players. I think what will eventually drive him from the sport is his personal decision to retire, not anything else. Most true. This forum or any governing body is not going to drive the Butlers away, they have already proved that. Rick will retire on his own long before anyone will force him, USAV, lawsuit has not done it yet.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2020 8:15:37 GMT -5
I am happy to be educated. What was inaccurate in that post? They don't collect income from SPVB, nor does SPVB "fund their defense"... obviously. Both of those statements were just blatantly and intentionally false. Are you serious? They collect no income from Sports Performance Volleyball and the revenues generated from Sports Performance Volleyball do not make their way into Butlers accounts and therefore into funds used to pay for their legal defense?
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Post by moderndaycoach on Mar 18, 2020 8:25:09 GMT -5
I am happy to be educated. What was inaccurate in that post? They don't collect income from SPVB, nor does SPVB "fund their defense"... obviously. Both of those statements were just blatantly and intentionally false. C'mon, you can't be serious with this. It is literally his business, there is no way the money in their bank account, and the money they use to defend themselves, was NOT derived from the club or any branch of revenue that was marketed and funded by the club. Obviously the checks going to the lawyers and whatever penalties they owe wont show up with SPVB on it, but we all know how he got rich.
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Post by n00b on Mar 18, 2020 9:08:01 GMT -5
Are you serious? They collect no income from Sports Performance Volleyball and the revenues generated from Sports Performance Volleyball do not make their way into Butlers accounts and therefore into funds used to pay for their legal defense? Yes, I’m serious... and I’m correct. The Butlers do not receive any income from the SPVB Program. Nor do any funds somehow make their way into their personal legal defense. Which is just a dumb claim that really shouldn’t warrant a response. I feel like you have to be making a semantic argument here. You might technically be right that the revenue from the volleyball club doesn't go to the Butlers because club volleyball doesn't make a lot of money. However, what DOES make a LOT of money are the camps and tournaments. So 'Great Lakes Volleyball' would be where the Butlers generate income. For example, when they host a tourney with 50 of their own teams in it, Sports Performance Volleyball writes a check for like $40,000 to Great Lakes Volleyball for entrance fees. However, that income wouldn't be there if it weren't for Sports Performance Volleyball Club, sooo...
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Post by gibbyb1 on Mar 18, 2020 9:45:41 GMT -5
Yes, I’m serious... and I’m correct. The Butlers do not receive any income from the SPVB Program. Nor do any funds somehow make their way into their personal legal defense. Which is just a dumb claim that really shouldn’t warrant a response. I feel like you have to be making a semantic argument here. You might technically be right that the revenue from the volleyball club doesn't go to the Butlers because club volleyball doesn't make a lot of money. However, what DOES make a LOT of money are the camps and tournaments. So 'Great Lakes Volleyball' would be where the Butlers generate income. For example, when they host a tourney with 50 of their own teams in it, Sports Performance Volleyball writes a check for like $40,000 to Great Lakes Volleyball for entrance fees. However, that income wouldn't be there if it weren't for Sports Performance Volleyball Club, sooo... Yes, it is semantics. Butlers tournaments, camps generate big bucks. His instructional videotapes are also the highest selling vb videos in the world. Hawk is correct that the actual club and teams don’t generate revenue for them, but they promote and allow the other things to be possible.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2020 9:47:41 GMT -5
Are you serious? They collect no income from Sports Performance Volleyball and the revenues generated from Sports Performance Volleyball do not make their way into Butlers accounts and therefore into funds used to pay for their legal defense? Yes, I’m serious... and I’m correct. The Butlers do not receive any income from the SPVB Program. Nor do any funds somehow make their way into their personal legal defense. Which is just a dumb claim that really shouldn’t warrant a response. I see other chiming in that the SPVB club program doesn't generate a lot of direct income. I can accept that as I understand clubs work on pretty slim margins when just talking about the club programs. The intention of my statement was all things VB (or at least the things like tournaments, league, camps), which are/were made available based on the SPVB brand. To take such a narrow perspective of my comment and blow it into my blatantly and intentionally making false statements takes a special kind of ignorance. Heck, at this point I would concede that the SPVB program itself is a loss leader at this point, but it doesn't change the fact that SPVB is integral facet of their operation.
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Post by gibbyb1 on Mar 18, 2020 10:19:58 GMT -5
To take you seriously (at this point, very difficult) I would think you would have to have inside knowledge of the Butlers books/finances. Like the intimate knowledge of their accountant, or the Butlers themselves. Or you are such good friends with them, that they share a full review of their finances (something I do with most of my friends and semi-friends) with you in order for you to have this level of personal information. Barring that level of intimacy with their finances, where are you getting your info? But you accuse me of making blatantly and intentionally false statements? sure, I guess... I will ignore you going forward and allow the logic and legitimacy of our posts to speak for themselves. Stay safe out there. Okay, well to be fair you "asked" for me to respond... and I did so truthfully & correctly. So if that's the way you decide to respond to someone you invited to provide you information then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ You make a very good point. I’d also submit that in the world of club volleyball you would t have to be close or intimate friends to know how clubs are set up, generate revenue, know what their player budgets are. If you run a club, you know how other clubs are or are not making money.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2020 8:03:16 GMT -5
Update: Sanctions fees postponed till 4.17, replacement class member postponed till 5.7. Butlers filed 2 motions: 1 - Docket#188- have Order of Summary Judgment amended (language used, Rick had sex with 16 & 17 year old players, not 15-17, & remove references to DCFS hearings as their were expunged 20years ago and are therefore inadmissible). 2 Docket#190- asking judge to reconsider sanctions as most of stuff would not have even occurred if mullens hadn't lied to begin with, but also, that Butlers and counsel did not act coercively or intentionally to harm the class and that Judge misinterpreted and/or misapplied the law. Date for Docket #190 is 5.8 www.courtlistener.com/docket/6318197/mullen-v-glv-inc/?filed_after=&filed_before=&entry_gte=&entry_lte=&order_by=desc
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Post by spike888 on Apr 11, 2020 1:53:19 GMT -5
So is this the first time Rick is admitting to having sex with 16 and 17 year olds? As far as I have read, the Butlers have always claimed that the girls were all 18 and he was no longer coaching them. Of course anyone that bothered to read the love letters knew that was a lie. So the Butlers were calling those girls/women liars for decades. Now they are finally admitting that they were lying for decades. Yes, I realize that he has not admitted to rape. But I think this is big news and if I were judging this case, it would set his trust level extremely low.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 9:52:11 GMT -5
RE: amount to be paid for sanctions awarded by the judge (this is being fought by Butlers, see above referencing docket #190)
From Docket #192
pg 2. "Class Counsel reached out to D’Ambrose to offer to forego the instant motion and any fees for the reply brief on the sanctions motion if Defendants would agree to pay $25,000, roughly $5,000 less than what was originally sought. That offer was refused."
pg 4. "Class Counsel expended 132.15 hours of time for a total lodestar of $76,992.50. However, as Class Counsel only sought half their lodestar in their motion for sanctions, they continue seek only half their time here, or an award of $38,496.25"
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