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Post by noreaster14 on Apr 19, 2019 6:41:28 GMT -5
I agree what is mentioned in the article is problematic, but not necessarily fireable.
That said. There is a lot more there that does have teeth.
I'm guessing that is what was kept off the press.
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Post by XAsstCoach on Apr 19, 2019 7:50:09 GMT -5
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Post by trainermch on Apr 19, 2019 8:25:45 GMT -5
I would want more info before forming an opinion either way, but we might never get that. However, on the surface a Senior Captian's departure is a fairly big statement. Whatever the case, I hate for anyone's dreams to be dashed. Could be as simple as what I tell my kids frequently: our greatest disappointments are when our expectations of a situation's outcome fall short. That's life.
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Post by moderndaycoach on Apr 19, 2019 8:46:14 GMT -5
I am sure that he is being an a$$hole in most of these instances and he could certainly turn down the hardo mantra and find a better way to communicate, but this sounds like a guy who wants things done his way and the group of girls that are not his recruits have no interest in playing for him.
"While doing defensive drills in practice, one player was singled out for missing two balls, each passing in between her hands, which were positioned too low. According to multiple players, Braddak subsequently instructed his assistant coach Julia Malseed to hit the player in the face with the next ball in order to teach her to keep her hands higher."
I read this quote and know exactly what happened, and I would bet 99% of that quote is correct except for the part about hitting her in the face and there is most likely more context lacking. Myself and way more than a handful of other coaches I could name right now have done this drill as it is very common. However the verbiage usually is said as hit AT her or your partners face, not necessarily hit her in the face. This is media loving a line that a naive girl with a motive threw out there while not understanding normal fundamental drills that happen on a regular basis.
Also deadspin has become such a crap blog lately and a far fall from grace of the website they used to be, every once in a while they do great coverage like recently with the Nassar stuff but other than that they are a bunch of overly liberal biased writers who think they are the internet justice police.
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Post by moderndaycoach on Apr 19, 2019 8:48:22 GMT -5
I would want more info before forming an opinion either way, but we might never get that. However, on the surface a Senior Captian's departure is a fairly big statement. Whatever the case, I hate for anyone's dreams to be dashed. Could be as simple as what I tell my kids frequently: our greatest disappointments are when our expectations of a situation's outcome fall short. That's life. Agree I want more info too because where there is smoke there is usually fire, but this reads as girls who just does not care for the way he wants to play volleyball and they are being stuck up about it. I would say a senior captains departure is more about her knowing she will be done with volleyball after that season and just truly being over playing for a guy that did not recruit her while simultaneously having a terrible season in regards to record.
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Post by Phaedrus on Apr 19, 2019 8:48:52 GMT -5
Whether he gets fired or not is largely a function of the AD, if they are newly minted administrators with a business degree and no previous athletic experience, i.e. as a coach, then their first strategy is to silence the crowd by playing to them and firing him, clear the decks and try to hide under the radar.
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Post by pancakes on Apr 19, 2019 8:49:45 GMT -5
Yeah, this seems like it could be a hit piece by a select few team members. The actions described certainly seem odd, but far from abusive. If that stuff traumatized those players, then they’ve lived very cushy lives. I found all 3 grievances described in the articles to be fairly tame or questionable... in order to claim mental abuse I’d hope (or not hope?) the other 5 are much more substantiated. If you find it tame that the coach mentioned suicide as a worse alternative to ANYthing to a Penn player, then you possibly are not paying attention. Or, you are as insensitive as this coach appears to be. www.phillymag.com/news/2014/05/23/penn-suicides-madison-holleran/
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Post by Hawk Attack on Apr 19, 2019 8:58:27 GMT -5
I found all 3 grievances described in the articles to be fairly tame or questionable... in order to claim mental abuse I’d hope (or not hope?) the other 5 are much more substantiated. If you find it tame that the coach mentioned suicide as a worse alternative to ANYthing to a Penn player, then you possibly are not paying attention. Or, you are as insensitive as this coach appears to be. www.phillymag.com/news/2014/05/23/penn-suicides-madison-holleran/Nope. Not tame in regards to that grievance... questionable (as I stated above). I don't read these articles and take everything presented by the students and writers as fact. I 100% agree with moderndaycoach the grievance regarding the defensive drill was worded seems off. I think there is a lot of context either unintentionally or intentionally left out of these reports. The article would present the grievance you're referring to as having gone down like this: Player: "Coach, how can I improve my game to see more time on the court?" Coach: "Don't worry, it's not too bad, you could be addicted to heroin or commit suicide." Even for a coach who is clearly having sensitivity issues... I don't know if I believe the conversation went as presented.
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Post by trainermch on Apr 19, 2019 9:01:21 GMT -5
I found all 3 grievances described in the articles to be fairly tame or questionable... in order to claim mental abuse I’d hope (or not hope?) the other 5 are much more substantiated. If you find it tame that the coach mentioned suicide as a worse alternative to ANYthing to a Penn player, then you possibly are not paying attention. Or, you are as insensitive as this coach appears to be. www.phillymag.com/news/2014/05/23/penn-suicides-madison-holleran/That one event was what prompted my first post about its being a difficult read. If indeed that is what he said to an athlete, I agree. Hard to believe these days an adult in such a position of authority would think this an appropriate response.
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Post by ilikecorn on Apr 19, 2019 16:45:13 GMT -5
That one event was what prompted my first post about its being a difficult read. If indeed that is what he said to an athlete, I agree. Hard to believe these days an adult in such a position of authority would think this an appropriate response. The reason something like that gets said is because they didn't think.
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Post by bigjohn043 on Apr 22, 2019 12:14:07 GMT -5
As a penn alum on the graduate level, I found this article embarrassingly bad.
Let me get this straight. The coach said next time hit her in the head. Not that anyone really got hit in the head. This is coaching 101 to get a kids attention. We can argue about how smart this is but it certainly isn't abuse.
The story about the conversation with the coach just strikes me as bizarre. I am sure he said something like what is quoted but likely in a much longer conversation. Assume that the accuser took the conversation and put it in the worst possible light. Even in that context this just isn't abusive.
And then someone lost their jacket. Who cares.
This is just silly and more of a statement on the silliness of the modern university than anything else. FWIW, I have no idea if this guy is a good coach and would agree overall that the signs here are not good.
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Post by pepperbrooks on Apr 22, 2019 12:43:37 GMT -5
As a penn alum on the graduate level, I found this article embarrassingly bad. Let me get this straight. The coach said next time hit her in the head. Not that anyone really got hit in the head. This is coaching 101 to get a kids attention. We can argue about how smart this is but it certainly isn't abuse. The story about the conversation with the coach just strikes me as bizarre. I am sure he said something like what is quoted but likely in a much longer conversation. Assume that the accuser took the conversation and put it in the worst possible light. Even in that context this just isn't abusive. And then someone lost their jacket. Who cares. This is just silly and more of a statement on the silliness of the modern university than anything else. FWIW, I have no idea if this guy is a good coach and would agree overall that the signs here are not good. I think the article probably does a poor job of outlining the conditions within the program. But three kids including one of the captains don't quit over silliness. And it wasn't just a lost jacket, it was a coach seemingly way over-reacting to a misplaced jacket, at the end of an already historically miserable season.
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Post by Hawk Attack on Apr 22, 2019 12:47:40 GMT -5
I think the article probably does a poor job of outlining the conditions within the program. But three kids including one of the captains don't quit over silliness. A lot of kids quit a lot of things over silliness. Whether that's the case here ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ...but let's not pretend like kids don't do irrational things all the time.
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Post by pepperbrooks on Apr 22, 2019 12:59:26 GMT -5
I think the article probably does a poor job of outlining the conditions within the program. But three kids including one of the captains don't quit over silliness. A lot of kids quit a lot of things over silliness. Whether that's the case here ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ...but let's not pretend like kids don't do irrational things all the time. One kid here and there? Yes. But three including the captain and 8 formal grievances filed? No.
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Post by Hawk Attack on Apr 22, 2019 13:07:39 GMT -5
A lot of kids quit a lot of things over silliness. Whether that's the case here ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ...but let's not pretend like kids don't do irrational things all the time. One kid here and there? Yes. But three including the captain and 8 formal grievances filed? No. Yes... yes it does happen. Kids quit over silliness at NAIA/DIII athletic programs all the time. And in high schools and junior club. Considering what seems to be an inept athletic department and weak coaching staff at Penn, it would not surprise me if that was the case here as well. These things are trending upwards, not downwards. My guess is you'll see this happen at larger programs more frequently now.
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