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Post by trianglevolleyball on Jun 4, 2019 17:12:30 GMT -5
I think this is wrong. Competition is not much weaker in a 4 Star than a 5 Star. I don’t have time to go check but off the top of my head the average 4 Star seems to have 15 of the top 20 teams play each 4 star. The difference between Gibb/Crabb facing a field with 8-10 teams better than them versus 10-12 teams is negligible. Now square this with the fact that the point differential between the two tourneys is massive. 5th at a 5 Star is worth 720 per team, 5th at a 4 Star is worth 480. 9th at a 5 Star is even better than 5th at a 4 Star. Next tourney they play, they lose their 4th place from last year. They would have to get top 4 at a 4 Star in order to not take a massive hit from this. If they got a 5th at a 4 Star, their entry ranking would drop from 6th to 15th, meaning no more cushy top seed spots. Has there been any 4 Star this year with a weak enough field that Gibb/Crabb could’ve anticipated even a 50% chance at a top 4 finish? Absolutely not. Meanwhile, at a 5 Star, they just need a 5th (pool win and then one more match) in order to not lose too much ground (though they still will, entry ranking will drop from 6th to around 10th in this case). All teams want 5 Star points as party of their entry points, and at the point that you’ve played six tournaments since a 5 Star, you’re screwed under this system unless you’re medaling at the 4 Stars. This is why so many superior teams are below Gibb/Crabb on the entry points. Is this a good strategy for Gibb/Crabb if they want to medal at the Olympics? No, not at all, they’re not getting any experience playing good teams. Is it a good strategy to hold seed and qualify? Absolutely, unequivocally, yes. Hold seed, yes. But I’m not convinced it helps them qualify. You still need 12 events to qualify and there aren’t enough 5 Stars to skip all of the 4 Stars. You’re going to need some good finishes at 4 Stars to qualify, and the more events you play, the more chances you have to get those top finishes. I think the seeding difference between a 7 and say a 12 at a 5 Star is negligible. It’s not like they’re in danger of dropping to the qualifiers. It just seems silly to be so worried about a bad finish at a 4 Star yet at the same time expecting a good finish at a 5 Star. Eventually they’re going to have to start playing these 4 Stars and when they do they’ll have little room for error. Entry points help, but they’re not the be-all end-all. It won’t be the end of the world when they drop their Gstaad and Vienna points. At the last 5 Star, the 7 seed had to play 26th seeded Belgium and 10 seeded Pedro and Victor Felipe to break pool. The 12 seed had to play 21 seeded Guto and Ricardo then lost to 5 seeded Dutch. A 7 seed gets to play a qualifier and a team worse than them to break pool. This is most certainly not negligible. And if they had bombed at a 4 star, they would have fallen to 15-18 area, which means, a 50/50 match up with someone of similar skill in the first round and then a game against the Norwegians, Russia 1, or Fijalek/Bryl to get the bye. I’m just not sure how anyone could say that these are similar paths to the very comparatively cush opportunities 7-10th seeds are getting. There is plenty of time before the olympics, you get to the 5 Stars, hope to do well, then you have a good seed for 4 consecutive 4 stars that you shoot to medal at. It’s not like they’ve made a vow to never play 4 Stars, they’re simply waiting until after they’ve gotten 5 Star points on their technical score. Nicolai/Lupo are doing the same, as our Dalcena. You can shame them all you want for the strategy, but it makes sense when the FIVB has this screwed up ranking system.
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Post by ajm on Jun 4, 2019 17:13:58 GMT -5
Hold seed, yes. But I’m not convinced it helps them qualify. You still need 12 events to qualify and there aren’t enough 5 Stars to skip all of the 4 Stars. You’re going to need some good finishes at 4 Stars to qualify, and the more events you play, the more chances you have to get those top finishes. I think the seeding difference between a 7 and say a 12 at a 5 Star is negligible. It’s not like they’re in danger of dropping to the qualifiers. It just seems silly to be so worried about a bad finish at a 4 Star yet at the same time expecting a good finish at a 5 Star. Eventually they’re going to have to start playing these 4 Stars and when they do they’ll have little room for error. Entry points help, but they’re not the be-all end-all. It won’t be the end of the world when they drop their Gstaad and Vienna points. If they can come up with a good finish here, even a 5th or so, it will put them in a much better position to get a few other decent finishes at 4 stars You mean like when they were the #1 seed in the Sydney 3 Star?
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Post by guest2 on Jun 4, 2019 17:17:34 GMT -5
If they can come up with a good finish here, even a 5th or so, it will put them in a much better position to get a few other decent finishes at 4 stars You mean like when they were the #1 seed in the Sydney 3 Star? I dont think this team is good on the international level, but they seem to. Jake has been to the Olympics twice already not sure why he should bother sacrificing money and fun in a relatively longshot chance to get back and lose early
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Post by tamz on Jun 4, 2019 17:34:57 GMT -5
Hold seed, yes. But I’m not convinced it helps them qualify. You still need 12 events to qualify and there aren’t enough 5 Stars to skip all of the 4 Stars. You’re going to need some good finishes at 4 Stars to qualify, and the more events you play, the more chances you have to get those top finishes. I think the seeding difference between a 7 and say a 12 at a 5 Star is negligible. It’s not like they’re in danger of dropping to the qualifiers. It just seems silly to be so worried about a bad finish at a 4 Star yet at the same time expecting a good finish at a 5 Star. Eventually they’re going to have to start playing these 4 Stars and when they do they’ll have little room for error. Entry points help, but they’re not the be-all end-all. It won’t be the end of the world when they drop their Gstaad and Vienna points. At the last 5 Star, the 7 seed had to play 26th seeded Belgium and 10 seeded Pedro and Victor Felipe to break pool. The 12 seed had to play 21 seeded Guto and Ricardo then lost to 5 seeded Dutch. A 7 seed gets to play a qualifier and a team worse than them to break pool. This is most certainly not negligible. And if they had bombed at a 4 star, they would have fallen to 15-18 area, which means, a 50/50 match up with someone of similar skill in the first round and then a game against the Norwegians, Russia 1, or Fijalek/Bryl to get the bye. I’m just not sure how anyone could say that these are similar paths to the very comparatively cush opportunities 7-10th seeds are getting. There is plenty of time before the olympics, you get to the 5 Stars, hope to do well, then you have a good seed for 4 consecutive 4 stars that you shoot to medal at. It’s not like they’ve made a vow to never play 4 Stars, they’re simply waiting until after they’ve gotten 5 Star points on their technical score. Nicolai/Lupo are doing the same, as our Dalcena. You can shame them all you want for the strategy, but it makes sense when the FIVB has this screwed up ranking system. Nicolai/Lupo aren’t skipping just for the heck of it. One of them is recovering from an injury. Dalcena only skipped Ostrava. Questionable, but they went to Jinjiang and are going to Warsaw. Itapema they skipped to go to Austin instead.
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Post by 405LAX on Jun 4, 2019 21:01:56 GMT -5
No one on this board has definitively answered this question in the years I've been asking it. So nobody on this Board has ever said what the top teams are compensated by USAV? That says one of two things -- 1) it is embarrasingly low or nothing, or 2) it is something, and the teams getting paid (or USAV) don't want to piss off teams that just miss the payment cutoff, so everyone keeps the dirty secret. I think this is closer to accurate than anything else put forward.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Jun 5, 2019 11:25:40 GMT -5
So nobody on this Board has ever said what the top teams are compensated by USAV? That says one of two things -- 1) it is embarrasingly low or nothing, or 2) it is something, and the teams getting paid (or USAV) don't want to piss off teams that just miss the payment cutoff, so everyone keeps the dirty secret. I think this is closer to accurate than anything else put forward. Direct from the Handbook (No dollar amounts are listed): V. Support Overview Athletes in the Beach National Program (BNP) are eligible for the following support from USAV/USOC: • Direct Athlete Support (DAS) – DAS is a monthly stipend that is paid to the athletes based on their position in the Beach National Program.• Athlete Health Insurance – There are two types of Athlete Health Insurance that are available to qualified athletes in the BNP: Elite Athlete Health Insurance (EAHI) which is a health insurance policy that is available to the top BNP athletes through the USOC. USAV BNP Personal Health Insurance Reimbursement Policy which reimburses qualified BNP athletes up to a certain amount of the personal monthly health insurance premiums. • Competition Travel Support – Athletes (CTSA) – The purpose of this support is to defray travel costs for Teams representing the United States in FIVB and NORCECA competitions. • Coaching Honoraria (CH) – The purpose of this support is to provide coaches of teams representing the United States in FIVB and NORCECA competitions financial support for their professional services. • Competition Travel Support – Coaches (CTSC) - The purpose of this support is to defray travel costs for coaches of teams representing the United States in NORCECA and FIVB competitions. • Athlete Wellness Program - The purpose of this program is to offer sports medicine and other wellness-oriented services to athletes.• Product – The official supplier and sponsor of USAV’s Beach National Program will be provided to qualified BNP athletes that choose to wear/use Mizuno. • Mikasa and Molten Volleyballs – The purpose of this support is to provide qualified BNP athletes with Mikasa and Molten volleyballs free of charge for training purposes to better prepare for international competitions. • USAV Facilities and Services – USAV provides strength and conditioning, nutrition consulting, physical therapy, sports psychology, etc. out of the Beach National Program Center in Torrance, CA, the American Sports Center in Anaheim, California (training center for USAV indoor national teams) and through the USOC. • Athlete Injury and Pregnancy Policy – This policy was put in place to provide care for athletes that get injured or become pregnant while they are active members of the BNP.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Jun 10, 2019 7:35:05 GMT -5
So....In NYC, we had a preview of the CQ, Chase & Casey squeaked out a win over Billy/Slick.
18-21, 21-18, 15-13
I was thinking Chase and Casey had a pretty good run, but this is too close to call.
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Post by tamz on Jun 11, 2019 6:18:11 GMT -5
Looks like Losiak is still injured.
Kantor is listed to be playing with Prudel.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Jun 11, 2019 9:09:58 GMT -5
Slick and Allen won in 3: 21 - 15 13 - 21 15 - 12
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Post by tamz on Jun 11, 2019 9:27:22 GMT -5
Slick and Allen won in 3: 21 - 15 13 - 21 15 - 12 Those two sets are very lopsided scores!
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Post by tamz on Jun 11, 2019 10:07:53 GMT -5
Andre/George in after defeating Guto/Saymon in three sets.
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Post by donnyb on Jun 12, 2019 1:32:31 GMT -5
Really tough bracket for slink. I dont think they make it through
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Post by JB Southpaw on Jun 12, 2019 7:27:22 GMT -5
Really tough bracket for slink. I dont think they make it through I think they have a shot, the German team they'll play to get in, hasn't done all that much this year.
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Post by donnyb on Jun 12, 2019 11:19:55 GMT -5
Really tough bracket for slink. I dont think they make it through I think they have a shot, the German team they'll play to get in, hasn't done all that much this year. Not looking good. Hope they turn it around lost game 1 21/16
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Post by LongSpatch on Jun 12, 2019 11:24:33 GMT -5
I think they have a shot, the German team they'll play to get in, hasn't done all that much this year. Not looking good. Hope they turn it around lost game 1 21/16 stream?
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