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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 10:24:50 GMT -5
Is women's volleyball the only team sport where China has won world championships? Note: I mean team sport in the common sense, not like the "Chinese Table Tennis team" where you fashion team championships out of cumulative individual performances.
I guess I'm just surprised that the country holds a women's sport in such high regards, but maybe that is because it is the most successful?
Very ignorant on this topic. Thanks to those who might be knowledgeable and able to point in the right direction or comment directly.
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Post by ironhammer on Sept 29, 2020 10:56:11 GMT -5
Is women's volleyball the only team sport where China has won world championships? Note: I mean team sport in the common sense, not like the "Chinese Table Tennis team" where you fashion team championships out of cumulative individual performances. I guess I'm just surprised that the country holds a women's sport in such high regards, but maybe that is because it is the most successful? Very ignorant on this topic. Thanks to those who might be knowledgeable and able to point in the right direction or comment directly. The men and women Chinese basketball team have won regional Asian championships before but no world championships of any kind. The Chinese women soccer team also made it all the way to the final of the 1999 World Cup before of course losing to the US women in that famous championship game. The Chinese men soccer team is in contrast regarded as a national disgrace and a frequent underperformer (despite soccer being the most popular team sport in China). The Chinese are minnows in most other team sports you can name, be it baseball, hockey, rugby, cricket, handball, etc. Li Na became the first Chinese, man or woman, to win tennis major championships (2014 Australian Open and 2011 French Open), but that of course is an individual sport by your definition. Thus traditionally, the Chinese have excel more in individual sports in the Olympics than team sports. Most of its Olympic golds came in individual sports like gymnastics, swimming, badminton, shooting sports, etc. So yes, the only exception where China excels in a team sport and winning Olympic gold and other world championships is the women volleyball team. That explains also the lofty status of Lang Ping in China. The Chinese yearns to achieve top results in team sports, but so far, only women volleyball has been able to accomplish that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 11:11:44 GMT -5
I assume China also has a men's vball team, but I think Japan is the only Asian country that does much of anything on the men's side?
As far as world popular team sports, it's pretty much soccer and basketball? Tackling sports I feel are more regional with Europe and the South Pacific dominating rugby and little to no interest in the Americas. While American football is obviously just popular in North America. Baseball isn't even in the Olympics anymore. Hockey maybe slightly more popular than baseball, as far as the world goes. Cricket, mainly South Asian. Handball mainly (north?) European?
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Post by ironhammer on Sept 29, 2020 11:30:31 GMT -5
I assume China also has a men's vball team, but I think Japan is the only Asian country that does much of anything on the men's side? As far as world popular team sports, it's pretty much soccer and basketball? Tackling sports I feel are more regional with Europe and the South Pacific dominating rugby and little to no interest in the Americas. While American football is obviously just popular in North America. Baseball isn't even in the Olympics anymore. Hockey maybe slightly more popular than baseball, as far as the world goes. Cricket, mainly South Asian. Handball mainly (north?) European? Yes China have a men's volleyball team, but their achievement pales in comparison to the women's team. The Chinese men have won regional championships before like the Asian Games, Asian Championships and Asian Cup, but they are not the Asian men's team with the most regional championships, South Korea, Japan and Iran have surpassed the Chinese men in acheivements in that regard. In terms of the global big three major in volleyball (Olympics, World Championships, World Cup), the Chinese men's team have not won any of the three. In fact, they have not been able to qualify in the last few Olympics. They made it to Beijing 2008 only because their country happened to host the games. This I always find a perculiarity. Other top volleyball nations (US, Italy, Brazil, Russia, Serbia, Japan) have strong men and women teams, with both genders having won at least one of the top three volleyball tournaments. But China for some reason is different. Only the women's team have been able to achieve the top accomplishment. And this in a society that was historically very patriarchal. The one reason I can think of was because Mao and his belief of "women holding up half the sky". He wanted to overturn the ingrained traditional disregard that China has held for its women. So the Chinese instead tried to remedy its past disdain towards women by actively developing women sports. And volleyball happened to be a team sport that the Chinese latched on. They saw how in Tokyo 1964, the Japanese women, being fellow Asians, were able to defeat the invincible Russians for Olympic Gold and hence realized women volleyball could be an opening to develop a team sport. China discovered that volleyball was the sport where Asians could compete against Western powers and win. Hence they hired the Japanese coaches and players to train and teach the Chinese players. In addition, back in those Cold War days of the 60's, China was very much an impoverished country which simply didn't have the resources to develop team sports for both genders. So they had to be pragmatic and focus on the sport (and gender) which is most likely to succed, which was women sports, and specifically women volleyball.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2020 19:38:55 GMT -5
One interesting thing that you included Iran, and that makes sense. Just that I automatically think of East Asian when thinking of "Asia". Then Southeast Asia, then South Asia. Rarely Central or Western Asia.
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Post by hanson on Sept 30, 2020 20:12:04 GMT -5
Is women's volleyball the only team sport where China has won world championships? Note: I mean team sport in the common sense, not like the "Chinese Table Tennis team" where you fashion team championships out of cumulative individual performances. I guess I'm just surprised that the country holds a women's sport in such high regards, but maybe that is because it is the most successful? Very ignorant on this topic. Thanks to those who might be knowledgeable and able to point in the right direction or comment directly. Yes. And yes. China sees football(your soccer), basketball and volleyball as the ‘3 major ball sports’. Since they first won world championships in women’s volleyball in the 1980s (when Lang Ping was player) and only have a shot at women’s volleyball today, it is put on a pedestal.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2020 20:14:44 GMT -5
Chinese people certainly have the height. (Koreans too, but for some reason not Japanese?)
Point being, wonder what is holding them back on the men's side? Need better coaches, need to get young boys into the sport earlier?
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Post by hanson on Sept 30, 2020 20:25:33 GMT -5
I assume China also has a men's vball team, but I think Japan is the only Asian country that does much of anything on the men's side? As far as world popular team sports, it's pretty much soccer and basketball? Tackling sports I feel are more regional with Europe and the South Pacific dominating rugby and little to no interest in the Americas. While American football is obviously just popular in North America. Baseball isn't even in the Olympics anymore. Hockey maybe slightly more popular than baseball, as far as the world goes. Cricket, mainly South Asian. Handball mainly (north?) European? Yes China have a men's volleyball team, but their achievement pales in comparison to the women's team. The Chinese men have won regional championships before like the Asian Games, Asian Championships and Asian Cup, but they are not the Asian men's team with the most regional championships, South Korea, Japan and Iran have surpassed the Chinese men in acheivements in that regard. In terms of the global big three major in volleyball (Olympics, World Championships, World Cup), the Chinese men's team have not won any of the three. In fact, they have not been able to qualify in the last few Olympics. They made it to Beijing 2008 only because their country happened to host the games. This I always find a perculiarity. Other top volleyball nations (US, Italy, Brazil, Russia, Serbia, Japan) have strong men and women teams, with both genders having won at least one of the top three volleyball tournaments. But China for some reason is different. Only the women's team have been able to achieve the top accomplishment. And this in a society that was historically very patriarchal. The one reason I can think of was because Mao and his belief of "women holding up half the sky". He wanted to overturn the ingrained traditional disregard that China has held for its women. So the Chinese instead tried to remedy its past disdain towards women by actively developing women sports. And volleyball happened to be a team sport that the Chinese latched on. They saw how in Tokyo 1964, the Japanese women, being fellow Asians, were able to defeat the invincible Russians for Olympic Gold and hence realized women volleyball could be an opening to develop a team sport. China discovered that volleyball was the sport where Asians could compete against Western powers and win. Hence they hired the Japanese coaches and players to train and teach the Chinese players. In addition, back in those Cold War days of the 60's, China was very much an impoverished country which simply didn't have the resources to develop team sports for both genders. So they had to be pragmatic and focus on the sport (and gender) which is most likely to succed, which was women sports, and specifically women volleyball. It’s not that complicated. Most women’s sports are less competitive than their men’s counterparts. In basketball, volleyball, soccer, tennis and etc, Chinese women all outperform men. The competitive field is just smaller. With a state-sponsored sports system, China has always pinpointed the sports or areas where they have the best chance to win Olympic golds and invest accordingly.
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Post by ironhammer on Sept 30, 2020 20:31:53 GMT -5
Yes China have a men's volleyball team, but their achievement pales in comparison to the women's team. The Chinese men have won regional championships before like the Asian Games, Asian Championships and Asian Cup, but they are not the Asian men's team with the most regional championships, South Korea, Japan and Iran have surpassed the Chinese men in acheivements in that regard. In terms of the global big three major in volleyball (Olympics, World Championships, World Cup), the Chinese men's team have not won any of the three. In fact, they have not been able to qualify in the last few Olympics. They made it to Beijing 2008 only because their country happened to host the games. This I always find a perculiarity. Other top volleyball nations (US, Italy, Brazil, Russia, Serbia, Japan) have strong men and women teams, with both genders having won at least one of the top three volleyball tournaments. But China for some reason is different. Only the women's team have been able to achieve the top accomplishment. And this in a society that was historically very patriarchal. The one reason I can think of was because Mao and his belief of "women holding up half the sky". He wanted to overturn the ingrained traditional disregard that China has held for its women. So the Chinese instead tried to remedy its past disdain towards women by actively developing women sports. And volleyball happened to be a team sport that the Chinese latched on. They saw how in Tokyo 1964, the Japanese women, being fellow Asians, were able to defeat the invincible Russians for Olympic Gold and hence realized women volleyball could be an opening to develop a team sport. China discovered that volleyball was the sport where Asians could compete against Western powers and win. Hence they hired the Japanese coaches and players to train and teach the Chinese players. In addition, back in those Cold War days of the 60's, China was very much an impoverished country which simply didn't have the resources to develop team sports for both genders. So they had to be pragmatic and focus on the sport (and gender) which is most likely to succed, which was women sports, and specifically women volleyball. It’s not that complicated. Most women’s sports are less competitive than their men’s counterparts. In basketball, volleyball, soccer, tennis and etc, Chinese women all outperform men. The competitive field is just smaller. With a state-sponsored sports system, China has always pinpointed the sports or areas where they have the best chance to win Olympic golds and invest accordingly. Yes that also factors in women team sport performance, but that is only partially true. If that is the situation in all cases we would have seen more countries with women team excelling. And US Women would have won Olympic Gold by now. But they haven't. So China stands out in that regard. So China's unique history and conditions which I mentioned definitely contributed to their women success.
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Post by hanson on Sept 30, 2020 20:39:36 GMT -5
Chinese people certainly have the height. (Koreans too, but for some reason not Japanese?) Point being, wonder what is holding them back on the men's side? Need better coaches, need to get young boys into the sport earlier? Physicality isn’t just height. East Asians have height on their men’s basketball teams as well, that doesn’t translate to anything in a highly competitive men’s basketball field. Men’s sports are more competitive. Iran’s men’s volleyball and basketball are Asian powerhouses, but their women aren’t for obvious reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2020 21:09:25 GMT -5
I think you have a fair point, but I’m not sure I agree that women’s vball is less competitive worldwide than men’s. I might even say the opposite, it I don’t know for sure.
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Post by ironhammer on Sept 30, 2020 21:42:47 GMT -5
Chinese people certainly have the height. (Koreans too, but for some reason not Japanese?) Point being, wonder what is holding them back on the men's side? Need better coaches, need to get young boys into the sport earlier? Physicality isn’t just height. East Asians have height on their men’s basketball teams as well, that doesn’t translate to anything in a highly competitive men’s basketball field. Men’s sports are more competitive. Iran’s men’s volleyball and basketball are Asian powerhouses, but their women aren’t for obvious reasons. That is only 50% of the reason. Like I said, we would have seen more NT women teams excelling if they are less competitive across the board. The other 50% is China's history and system which does influence the trajectory of the team's performance.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Oct 1, 2020 0:22:49 GMT -5
I think you have a fair point, but I’m not sure I agree that women’s vball is less competitive worldwide than men’s. I might even say the opposite, it I don’t know for sure. The men's field is way more competitive. There are just way more teams that could legitimately make a run or win on any given day. It makes what the USA Men's team has done much more impressive.
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Post by ironhammer on Oct 1, 2020 1:02:44 GMT -5
I think you have a fair point, but I’m not sure I agree that women’s vball is less competitive worldwide than men’s. I might even say the opposite, it I don’t know for sure. The men's field is way more competitive. There are just way more teams that could legitimately make a run or win on any given day. It makes what the USA Men's team has done much more impressive. But that does not entirely explain the unique success of Chinese women volleyball vs other women teams from other countries.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2020 9:04:26 GMT -5
I have no way to refute what you claim, but is that really true?
You're saying something like "the top 12 teams in the men's side could all easily win the world title, but only the top 5 on the women's side could" ?
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